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dovelette
Jan 3, 2008, 5:33 PM
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My husband and I are fairly new climbers and are heading out to Red Rocks in March. All of our climbs to this point have been with a guide and mostly top roping, though a couple of our guides had him lead climb a sport route (I have no experience leading either a sport or trad climb). We'll be climbing for quite a few days in RR and don't want to pay a fortune to have a guide take us out every day.
So...how does one go about finding a partner who likes to lead and doesn't mind a couple of folks following up after? I know there are some sport routes that we can do just the two of us but that there are a lot more trad routes. What is proper etiquitte with something like this too? We obviously don't have a rack but should we use our rope? Do we offer $$ to let us climb with them or what? (do I sound as ridiculous as I think I do?)
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troutboy
Jan 3, 2008, 5:51 PM
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dovelette wrote: My husband and I are fairly new climbers and are heading out to Red Rocks in March. So...how does one go about finding a partner who likes to lead and doesn't mind a couple of folks following up after? (do I sound as ridiculous as I think I do?)
No, you don't sound ridiculous at all. You seem like a nice, intelligent new climber facing the same dilemma many new climbers do.
There are often experienced folks travelling without a partner who need transport, are dirtbags on an extended trip tyring to save $$, or are just nice folks willing to help out new climbers.
Here is what you can try:
1) Post in the western partners forum explaining your situation. Mention that you are willing to buy food, beer, gas, and/or provide a campsite/transportation. Be honest in your blurb, especially with respect to your climbing abilities.
2) Post the same message on mountain project.com and any other applicable forums.
If you get no responses (or all responders seem like complete idiots  ):
3) Take your trip anyway. Buy the guidebook and wander around the popular climbing areas (at Red Rocks, the Black Corridor, Panty Wall, Gallery, and Magic Bus should be good for this. For trad, try Calico Basin or another easily accessible, one pitch trad area). Just politely approach persons with a rope set up, start up a conversation, and ask if you can hitch a ride on the climb they have set up. It seems you have enough experience to avoid the "undesirables" who are complete boneheads.
4) Try looking for partners at the campground (I put this as #4 because Red Rocks is not the easiest place to do this - this works much better at the Gunks, for instance, where there is a common gathering place and entry point to the climbing area).
Good luck. I have had some excellent trips by helping out single climbers or newer climbers and continuing to climb with them for several days. I know I am willing to it and there many others also friendly and willing.
EDITED to Add: You might also try to plan your trip around the Red Rock Rendezvous http://www.mountaingear.com/RedRock/. It will be more crowded, but there are numerous clinics that will allow you to climb for many $$ less than you would pay for a guide. You might also meet some cool people to climb with during the clinics/festivities.
TS
(This post was edited by troutboy on Jan 3, 2008, 6:08 PM)
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dingus
Jan 3, 2008, 5:59 PM
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Yo dovey, asking stangers to climb with me is one of the hardest things I ever had to do in climbing.
Seriously. That doesn't come easy for me. I was never any good at it.
However, if'n I were you I'd try to figure out who on this board lives near Vegas and try to hook up and schedule some time with them, in advance.
That way you'd arrive with some or even all of your schedule already covered.
A thought anyway....
Also, I'd avoid hooking up with other noobs if I were you.
Cheers
DMT
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cracklover
Jan 3, 2008, 6:06 PM
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Hooking up with partners is pretty common, so don't sweat it.
With that said, don't expect anything like a guided experience. For one thing, very few people will want to haul up not one, but two inexperienced climbers. It's nothing personal, it's just that most climbers arrive at a big destination like Red Rocks or the Valley with a pretty set agenda, and you don't fit in it. With that said, a solid climber may be happy to run up some routes that are easy for them on their rest day, and if you can find these folks, they may make your day.
But don't expect it. Go there with either the willingness to do only what you're capable of, on your own, or plan to hire a guide, or plan a lot of fun non-climbing excursions for days when you can't find a rope-gun.
Now - how to find someone: stay at the campground and be social. Walk around to all the other sites with a six-pack in hand every night, plan on sharing, and hope for the best. Head in to the climbing shop - post a note there. Befriend the folks that work there and ask them to spread your need for a partner. Go to RR with a cell-phone that gets a signal in the CG (I think Verizon does) so you won't have to head into town just to return someone's call. Post a note on the bulletin board at the campground.
That's all I can think of.
GO
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granite_grrl
Jan 3, 2008, 6:19 PM
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Dove, I think your biggest problem is most of the trad out there is multipitch. While not that tricky, it is more hassel to take out two rather than one person.
If you don't already have a bit of experiance following and on multipitch I would suggest getting more. My biggest problem about taking someone new out is whether they'll be a dead weight or if they can act as a partner.
I remember my first time at Red Rocks. I was solo on a road trip and wanted to do the multipitch stuff so bad. Had my rack, a rope, just needed partners. Back then there was at least one guy I wouldn't take up because I just didn't have enough experiance yet myself to deal with his inexperiance. Now, with a lot more experiance under my belt, I would be happy to get the chance to lead every pitch.
If you can't find anyone in advance go anyway and post a message at the campground BB.
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kam6also
Jan 3, 2008, 6:52 PM
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Just before I read this post (bout 5 min ago) I PM'd a RC.comER about climbing this weekend at Red Rocks. I started climbing a couple months ago and this is one of my first times looking for a climbing partner, because my buddy that I usually climb with is moving to Atlanta for a year. I will wait to see if I get a reply from the PM. Hey, whats the worst thing that can happen? The person will say no. I also called someone that I met at at a similar climbing clinic in JTree(ClimbSmart). I would definitely recommend going to the clininc because it really helped me a lot in getting the basics down and I met some cool people that I can hopefully go climging with. The costs are minimal and you get to learn a lot and climb. And now that I found the RR Rondezvous I will sign up for that too. Good luck with everything and hope you guys can find a parnter. Climb on!!!
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dovelette
Jan 3, 2008, 7:07 PM
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granite_grrl wrote: Dove, I think your biggest problem is most of the trad out there is multipitch. While not that tricky, it is more hassel to take out two rather than one person. If you don't already have a bit of experiance following and on multipitch I would suggest getting more. My biggest problem about taking someone new out is whether they'll be a dead weight or if they can act as a partner.
Actually my second climb ever was a 4 pitch spire in Sedona. I've done I think...4 multipitch trad climbs, we know how to belay and clean etc. I don't really know if that is a bit of experience or not...my first climb ever was on a cross country road trip, and after climbing in Moab we changed the last month of our trip to spend it climbing all over the SW. Our biggest problem really is that we live in upstate NY where there is ZERO climbing (we're 5 hours from the 'Gunks) and our gym sucks; they don't offer any sort of classes or anything. We really do want to get better and progress...we're just finding we can't do it easily.
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dingus
Jan 3, 2008, 7:16 PM
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I know this isn't necessarily the 'right board' for this comment but there are lots of other climbing venues in the RR area that don't require technical rock climbing lead experience. Mostly good legs and sound lungs and a willingness to hike.
But its climbing too and beats the hell out of sinning on the strip.
OK, I lied, peak bagging competes with sinning on the strip. I'd let Local Conditions (haha) dictate.
But considering you hail from upper NY state ( you need to GET OUT OF THERE and STOP shopping at Wegman's) the fun of hiking and bagging 8,9 and 10 k peaks in the desert may quench your thirst entirely.
Maybe keep the idea in your back pocket for consideration. If the idea is interesting check out Summitpost.com for some local Vegas peak beta.
Just a thought...
DMT
ps For your consideration: http://www.summitpost.org/...southern-nevada.html
In reply to: There are over 100 peaks within an hour's drive from Las Vegas Valley offering great vistas, unique rock formations, solitude and a variety of both desert and alpine flora and fauna.
(This post was edited by dingus on Jan 3, 2008, 7:19 PM)
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mheyman
Jan 3, 2008, 9:50 PM
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* - If this is not a large commitment for you and you won’t be disappointed if you get in a few sport routes a day then do as others have written. You are sure to get on some sport routes at the very least just from hanging around. You might be lucky and get to do a lot more
From your description you are not ready to do this trip own your own. So, if this is a large commitment for you, you are looking forward to actually getting a lot of multi pitch trad climbing in, and you do not have that commitment, then I recommend a change of plans.
Then use the money to buy a rack and spend time in the spring climbing at the Gunks. There is no better place to learn on your own. See the ongoing Low Traversing Lead Thread
* - This Web site and others are great places to find partners and make arrangements.
But,
* - As granite grrrl wrote visitors often have their own agenda. Many coveted moderates at RR are long and climbing with 3 will be time consuming.
* - If you are willing to split up you will likely fare better. Then with one more experienced partner one of you could climb with that person every other day leaving the other to cruise a sport area and bum rides.
(This post was edited by mheyman on Jan 3, 2008, 9:59 PM)
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drfelatio
Jan 3, 2008, 10:04 PM
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The solution to your problem is very easy: You pay for two round-trip air tickets for my partner and I and we'll come out to Red Rocks with you. We don't mind leading, we don't mind having people follow us, we have a full rack of gear, and we're poor and would like to go to Red Rocks. I'll even let you offer me free beer!
In all seriousness though, if and when you do find a partner willing to take you, remember that they're doing you a favor and you should compensate them accordingly. Just by coming on here and asking for advice tells me that you and your husband probably aren't total asshats and you'd treat your newfound partner pretty well. Buy some beer, buy dinner, pay for gas. If you have gear, offer to use it instead of theirs (if they're comfortable with that); either way, make sure you carry a good portion of the gear for them.
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dingus
Jan 3, 2008, 10:07 PM
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Good advice Dr Cranium (about buying dinner, etc.)
DMT
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dovelette
Jan 3, 2008, 10:20 PM
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mheyman wrote: * - If this is not a large commitment for you and you won’t be disappointed if you get in a few sport routes a day then do as others have written. You are sure to get on some sport routes at the very least just from hanging around. You might be lucky and get to do a lot more From your description you are not ready to do this trip own your own. So, if this is a large commitment for you, you are looking forward to actually getting a lot of multi pitch trad climbing in, and you do not have that commitment, then I recommend a change of plans. Then use the money to buy a rack and spend time in the spring climbing at the Gunks. There is no better place to learn on your own. See the ongoing Low Traversing Lead Thread
Hm, I'm not sure what you are referring to with "large commitment"...climbing in general or Vegas? I guess the answer is "sort of" and "yes." "Sort of" because we definitely want to get more into climbing, BUT we're leaving in 5 months to go to Africa for 2 years with the Peace Corps and are reluctant to buy a ton of gear now that we'll just have to leave sitting around (unfortunately we're going to west africa and I've already checked - not a lot of climbing). "Spring" in NY doesn't hit until April and we'll be leaving by June at the latest. It unfortunately doesn't give us a lot of time to practice anything. We've both decided when we get back from the Peace Corps we want to move to the southwest because we loved climbing so much.
"Yes" to Vegas because, well, we already have tickets :o) However, I think both of us are ok with just getting sport climbs in, and in the next few weeks we're taking a three week class in Toronto so that he can feel comfortable enough to lead climb if we can't find other people to climb with.
Also, could you post a link to the thread you are referring to? I did a search for it but I'm not sure I found the right one.
BTW Thank you SO much to everyone for your posts, I'm blown away that people have taken so much time to help me out.
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dovelette
Jan 3, 2008, 10:28 PM
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drfelatio wrote: The solution to your problem is very easy: You pay for two round-trip air tickets for my partner and I and we'll come out to Red Rocks with you. We don't mind leading, we don't mind having people follow us, we have a full rack of gear, and we're poor and would like to go to Red Rocks. I'll even let you offer me free beer! In all seriousness though, if and when you do find a partner willing to take you, remember that they're doing you a favor and you should compensate them accordingly. Just by coming on here and asking for advice tells me that you and your husband probably aren't total asshats and you'd treat your newfound partner pretty well. Buy some beer, buy dinner, pay for gas. If you have gear, offer to use it instead of theirs (if they're comfortable with that); either way, make sure you carry a good portion of the gear for them.
Hm, so where are you anyway? lol Hey, tickets to Vegas can be cheap, and we already got the rental car!
Absolutely on all the above points...my only concern was that people might be insulted if I offered them money or whatever, but I am an excellent hostess, both in my home and while camping :o) And I can "camp cook" like a mo' fo' (100 days on the road will do that to you). We also figured that at LEAST we'd use our rope - we'd never expect to use anyone elses.
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dingus
Jan 3, 2008, 10:31 PM
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You sound like good eggs. Have fun out there whatever you do!
DMT
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mheyman
Jan 4, 2008, 3:39 AM
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http://www.rockclimbing.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1770866
Pay attention to RG and GO's posts - since you have already begun leading just continue leading stuff you are sure you can do.
Since you have tickets take what you can get.
Don't buy gear years in advance of when your are going to use it. Find people to climb with. Things often work out nicely as long as your expectations aren't too high.am sure. As Dingus wrote have fun!
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jt512
Jan 4, 2008, 4:10 AM
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dovelette wrote: My husband and I are fairly new climbers and are heading out to Red Rocks in March. All of our climbs to this point have been with a guide and mostly top roping, though a couple of our guides had him lead climb a sport route (I have no experience leading either a sport or trad climb). We'll be climbing for quite a few days in RR and don't want to pay a fortune to have a guide take us out every day. So...how does one go about finding a partner who likes to lead and doesn't mind a couple of folks following up after?
One doesn't. Or at least two don't. It's one thing if you don't have a partner, and you head out alone hoping to hook up with a more experienced partner who is also alone. But the problem is you already have a partner. Your only hope is to hook up with someone out there alone who can't find a partner and would thus be reluctantly willing to take on two rookies. What you are contemplating is utterly selfish; you're looking to hire a guide for free. You are planning a climbing trip without knowing how to climb. That is precisely why guide services exist.
Jay
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dovelette
Jan 4, 2008, 6:08 PM
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I appreciate this post. I hope I didn't off you or anyone else too much, that wasn't my intention (actually that would be the opposite of my intention, hence why I asked for help to begin with). However, I obviously don't entirely agree (and fortunately a lot of others out there don't either given the number of PM's I've gotten).
As far as planning a trip without being ready to, I stated before my husband can lead a 5.9 sport climb, so completely regardless of whether anyone responded to this post or offered suggestions, I think we would be fine on the sport climbs (plus he's starting a lead climb class that should have him leading 5.10 sport...and as far as our inexperience, he's been climbing in a gym for over two years in addition to our "real" climbing). What I didn't realize was how many well protected moderate trad climbs there are in RR, and thus we were hoping to find others that enjoy leading and don't mind climbing with others.
I'm absolutely certain that some people would find this rude or selfish or what not. I haven't been climbing long enough to get annoyed by people like me yet :o) I guess I made an assumption that there are people out there who really just love to climb, don't care about always climbing the hardest routes possible, need someone to climb with and belay them who isn't an ass and can keep a nice sustained moderate pace, and would enjoy my stellar company (cough cough). Oh and beer and food.
I will say one thing about guide services, having used a lot of them (we climbed in Moab, Sedona, Flagstaff, Santa Fe, Hueco Tanks, Horseshoe Canyon, Asheville and Red River and had a guide at each). Most of the guides we hired were kind of surprised we hired a guide at all BECAUSE we weren't looking for lessons, we were just looking to top rope. While we don't feel comfortable enough leading a trad climb, we also don't need to - following is just fine with us.
If this whole line of questioning was inappropriate, I apologize. But I do think that there are some people out there who can appreciate our situation and who've been super helpful, and others who've already told us to get in touch with them because they'd love to have some people to climb with.
Peace,
Dove
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dingus
Jan 4, 2008, 7:05 PM
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jt512 wrote: What you are contemplating is utterly selfish; you're looking to hire a guide for free.
Oh HORSESHIT. What they are proposing is as old as climbing itself.
DMT
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jt512
Jan 4, 2008, 7:08 PM
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dingus wrote: jt512 wrote: What you are contemplating is utterly selfish; you're looking to hire a guide for free. Oh HORSESHIT. What they are proposing is as old as climbing itself.
Freeloading? Yeah, I guess you're right.
Jay
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troutboy
Jan 4, 2008, 7:11 PM
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dingus wrote: jt512 wrote: What you are contemplating is utterly selfish; you're looking to hire a guide for free. Oh HORSESHIT. What they are proposing is as old as climbing itself. DMT
Yep. JT512, always a good source for technical info, sometimes likes to be a curmudgeon .
TS
(This post was edited by troutboy on Jan 4, 2008, 7:26 PM)
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dingus
Jan 4, 2008, 7:19 PM
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troutboy wrote: dingus wrote: jt512 wrote: What you are contemplating is utterly selfish; you're looking to hire a guide for free. Oh HORSESHIT. What they are proposing is as old as climbing itself. DMT Yep. JT512, always a good source for technical info, sometimes like to be a curmudgeon . TS
Of course and me too! I rarely take exception to his technical advice and in fact cede the higher ground to the better man on that score.
Cept where the definition of 'anchor' is concerned haha.
But to say these two are 'utterly selfish' is just plain brown horseshit.
DMT
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the_leech
Jan 4, 2008, 8:16 PM
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jt512 wrote: dovelette wrote: My husband and I are fairly new climbers and are heading out to Red Rocks in March. All of our climbs to this point have been with a guide and mostly top roping, though a couple of our guides had him lead climb a sport route (I have no experience leading either a sport or trad climb). We'll be climbing for quite a few days in RR and don't want to pay a fortune to have a guide take us out every day. So...how does one go about finding a partner who likes to lead and doesn't mind a couple of folks following up after? One doesn't. Or at least two don't. It's one thing if you don't have a partner, and you head out alone hoping to hook up with a more experienced partner who is also alone. But the problem is you already have a partner. Your only hope is to hook up with someone out there alone who can't find a partner and would thus be reluctantly willing to take on two rookies. What you are contemplating is utterly selfish; you're looking to hire a guide for free. You are planning a climbing trip without knowing how to climb. That is precisely why guide services exist. Jay
Thank you, Jay.
It's good to see that someone is still true to the cause.
Spread the attitude of discouragement wherever you go.
Word.
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trundlebum
Jan 4, 2008, 8:55 PM
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Dingus wrote:
"...and beats the hell out of sinning on the strip."
What does ?
Besides sinning on the strip gives me the rationale'
"sure that kid can flash 5.12+ but can he lead rotten 5.6 after a three day bender at the 'Nugget'?"
Ok ok, so the Nugget is not on the strip I know :)
All in jest...
I just wanted to say, Dingus I vaguely recall you from back 'in the day'...
But I now consider you a friend (through these forums) and follow your posts.
For someone that claims to be shy with new/fresh interpersonal interaction, you sure are helpful to so many here and on other forums.
Dove:
Don't worry about finding climbing partners,
with your enthusiasm and as Dingus puts it "you seem like good eggs"
Partners will find you ;)
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smallclimber
Jan 4, 2008, 10:52 PM
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my husband can lead a 5.9 sport climb, (plus he's starting a lead climb class that should have him leading 5.10 sport...
If you can lead 5.10 sport then you have several days of fun in RR without needing trad gear, but make sure you know how to tread the lower off safely, unlike a gym there may not be quick clips in place.
How about hiring a guide for just one day to take you up a classic trad route maybe a 5.7-5.8.
I do think that as there are two of you it seems quite a lot to expect a experinced climber to give up their time to shepherd two people up a route, but for me time is more important than money, so I would not be happy to slow down for a day, maybe for others beer, transport or food would be an incentive.
Red rocks is a great place so I;d go anyway, but think about starting to lead trad yourselves.
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anna9
Jan 4, 2008, 10:56 PM
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very helpful information. Thanks
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