A single rope that is rated to 5000 lbs is insufficient for rescue work cause ,as soon as you put the knot in there, you will loose 30% which brings the value to @2800 lbs or safety factor 6:1. This is why two rope are used in rescue to increase the safety factor to at least 12:1.

In climbing, there are no such standard or at least no one builds an anchor or uses a biner with such safety factors in mind.

Most people feel that two cams in the crack and leaving one draw on TR does the job and there they go off the wall.

I am confident that most manufacturer know why they build their gear in such ways,

but does public has any idea why these ratings are for ?.

Do we feel safer with a gear rated 5 times more than what we could generate during a fall ?

kN is just a unit of force, just as the pound is. 1 kN = 225 lb (approximately).

Pounds (lb) are not a unit of force, they're a unit of weight; mass*g.

In climbing, there are no such standard or at least no one builds an anchor or uses a biner with such safety factors in mind.

Most people feel that two cams in the crack and leaving one draw on TR does the job and there they go off the wall.

Do we feel safer with a gear rated 5 times more than what we could generate during a fall ?

I beg to differ. There absolutely is a safety standard in climbing. Gear is designed around the principle that a lead fall should never generate more than 12kn on the falling climber. No, it is not like a 15:1 standard. You, the climber, are responsible for deciding how much overkill you want and are comfortable with, and that is how it should be.



Really? "Most people"???? I've never seen anyone TR off of 1 draw, or 2 pieces of pro, let alone most people.



You have climbing gear rated to 80kn? I don't have any on my rack. Please tell me what gear you have that is rated to 80kn.

Harnesses failing? Ropes "snapping?" Where else but rc.com can you get quality misinformation like this!

Jay

Safety standards in climbing ?

You mean something that is well documented and has been approved as standard ?

Like how to jumar or what belay device you must use or you can not rap with rope under this size etc ?

These threads are so predictable.

F = ma. Let a = g. Then F = mg = w. Thus weight is a force.

Jay

And yet we still hear of gear failures. I know I have heard of biners snapping on slacklines, harnesses failing, cams breaking, ropes snapping... etc etc I will give you that most of this was probably improper use and/or excessive wear and tear, but mfg know this shit happens and therefore build to account for a certain degree of stupidity/cheapness/laziness/misuses by the users. Also it's nice to have gear that is OBVIOUSLY way too worn to be using before it fails structurally.

If a falling climber can't generate above 7 kn or 9 kn...

Pounds (lb) are not a unit of force, they're a unit of weight; mass*g. Pounds force (lbf) are an imperial unit of force, independent of gravity. One kn is ~225 lbf.

Yup, but mass is not, and dobson was talking about mass. You measure wheight in newtons, not lbs. Not important anyway, I'm sure we all understood what you meant, I just had to be a pedant

Thanks for the correction. When I said dynamic force, I think I should have been saying shock loading. Is shock loading measured differently than other kinds of force, i.e. a different unit?

I'm not arguing I'm just asking, because the way I understand it a 225 lb or 1kN person does not weigh in at 1kN when loading the rope immediately after a fall, while they still weigh 225 lbs. Or am I misusing weight for mass in that scenario?

These threads are so predictable.

F = ma. Let a = g. Then F = mg = w. Thus weight is a force.

Jay

Yes, I just told you one standard, did you not read my post?

Have you never heard of the EN standards? Or the UIAA?

A standard for how to jumar? That's like asking if there is a standard for how to turn on a light switch.

A standard for what belay device you must use? Why would there be? But next time you pick up your belay device note the little "CE" stamp on it. That is a standard.

Every single piece of gear on your rack complies with a "well documented and approved" standard.

I don't know what your arguements about safety standards are trying to prove.

Standards whether it is food, safety or industry operations can be about making life simpler, more compatible or involve less decision making.

Safety standard can remove decision making. It can mean that people who do not really have a clue about forces, or dangerous chemicals still safely operate in such environment.

Climbing however is not a world of standards. There are too many variables and too many decisions need to be made that by promoting standards you can get people into trouble.

Case in point is some sport climbers who find themselves in unusual situations be it rescues or other problems. I have seen some sport climbers totally clueless outside of belayin, clipping and heading down again.

CE, EU , UIAA, etc qualifies climbing equipment and set requirements for . . . blah blah blah yada yada yada.

#1 - Duh. Yeah. Tell me something I don't know.

#2 - The kind of standards you are yammering on about (and what you're talking about would more commonly be considered policies rather than standards, but that's another argument) would imply the need for or existence of a climbing governing body of some sort. Are you advocating for such standards or such a body?

#3 - Do you actually have a point? Or are you just going to keep on blah blah blahing about nothing of consequence? Because if you have a point it would be nice if you made it, because this is getting tedious and boring.

I do have a point . THERE ARE NO STANDARDS IN CLIMBING. Please reply when you find some standards for me.

I do have a point . THERE ARE NO STANDARDS IN CLIMBING. Please reply when you find some standards for me.

Hey jt, is there ever a need to state that there is deceleration as opposed to the word acceleration when considering the forces involved with stopping a climbers fall. Would not deceleration be a better descriptive word? I know that when a climber is initially falling then acceleration would be the best term to use but when a belayer applies a frictional force to the rope would not the climber then be decelerating.