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crackers
Mar 5, 2008, 6:27 PM
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Having picked up the guidebook torch from Don Mellor, Jim Lawyer and Jeremy Haas worked for years on the new guidebook to the Adirondack's Rock.
I've used the beta version. It was awesome. I've written a bit about why I thought it was great over onCiloGear's Blog but you can see for yourself over at adirondackrock.com
Enjoy!
(This post was edited by crackers on Mar 5, 2008, 6:28 PM)
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dta95b7r
Mar 5, 2008, 7:15 PM
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I'm looking forward to this guidebook bigtime.
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swaghole
Mar 5, 2008, 7:20 PM
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woo hoo. I've been waiting for this one for a long time.!!!!
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T-Bone
Mar 5, 2008, 8:04 PM
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me too. the topos are real accurate, though that takes some adventure out of it.
I'm glad it will be describing a lot of high peaks backcountry stuff though.
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elwood54
Mar 6, 2008, 3:03 AM
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amazing...just ordered mine.
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hexinduction
Mar 6, 2008, 3:19 AM
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oh man. no more excuses for getting lost.
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Adk
Mar 6, 2008, 3:50 AM
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I'm looking very forward to reading it over and over again.
From what I have seen it's is going to be great and well needed.
I'm buying at least three copies. One for my track-hoe at work for the dead time, one for the backpack and one for my son so that he will have no excuse to borrow mine.
Now that I think about it I should probably buy one for my climbing partner that got me back into climbing.
I owe him big time besides being an attentive belayer for him when he is taking the lead.
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rangerrob
Mar 6, 2008, 1:25 PM
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Shit, I'm still using Mellors's green guidebook. Nuthin wrong with that puppy. They're soaking you for money!!!!! Just get out there and climb for Christ's Sake. Who cares if someone has climbed it or not.
RR
"I don't know if the climbuses this foothold, or that one. What does the guidebook say?"
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freedan
Mar 6, 2008, 2:34 PM
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The guidebook will be great. I've been lucky enough to join Jim on a few explorations of new crags in the S. Adks and have seen and used the topos and route descriptions for a few areas. Very well thought out and informative!
As far as not needing a guidebook, the Adks have so many crags that get no traffic at all or are yet to be really developed where Keene Valley and Poko gets hammered. This might spread the action out a bit. The many new backcountry crags documented still aren't going to see many visitors but great starting point beta for those of us that like to get away from the crowds.
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T-Bone
Mar 6, 2008, 3:18 PM
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and that is the most important aspect of this new guidebook. I guess some people told jim "don't include the crap" but if it spreads people out more, fine with me. I hope more people driving up from south of us will climb in the southern 'dacks
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c4c
Mar 6, 2008, 3:25 PM
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rangerrob wrote: Shit, I'm still using Mellors's green guidebook. Nuthin wrong with that puppy. They're soaking you for money!!!!! Just get out there and climb for Christ's Sake. Who cares if someone has climbed it or not. RR "I don't know if the climbuses this foothold, or that one. What does the guidebook say?"
go crawl back under your rock.
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cfnubbler
Mar 6, 2008, 3:27 PM
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I have decidely mixed emotions about the new book.
On one hand, Jim and Jeremy have obviously done a simply tremendous job on it, and it will serve as a great resource for folks.
On the other hand, one of the great appeals of the Adirondacks has always been the sense of wildness and adventure still very much alive in the climbing scene there.
In my opinion, Don's guidebooks embody this spirit, and I lament its demise, which this new book will hasten. I LIKE that the Adirondacks are a backwater area! In my opinion, this book is a step toward homogenizing the presently unique Adirondack climbing experience. Some of my fondest climbing memories involve backountry Adirondack climbs found with second and third hand approach beta, little or no route descriptions, and a good partner willing to just go have a look!
It does look like a superbly done book though, and yeah, I've got one on order too.
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rangerrob
Mar 6, 2008, 10:45 PM
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Why do I seem to be pissing off the Jesus freaks? hmmm......
RR
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jimlawyer
Mar 7, 2008, 12:33 AM
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We have tried to capture the same spirit of adventure and discovery portrayed in Don Mellor's books, and we're giving you plenty of ideas on where to have those adventures. Further, rather than rely on Don's word (or our word), we include writing from 23 different local climber (including Don) that tell us, in their words, what it's like to climb in the Adirondacks.
Those worried about overcrowding, "herd paths" that look like marked trails...think of this: Mellor provides enough information to find cliffs like Tongue and Puffer...but does anyone actually go there? When researching this book, I felt as though I was doing the second ascent of many routes. These cliffs have been known for years, but still *nobody* visits them. So it's not from the lack of a guidebook.
Rather, it's the inconvenience of climbing in the Adirondacks, the bushwhacks, the bugs, the short season, the heat, the cold, the snakes, the peregrines...all of these are things that make the Adirondacks what it is, and aren't changed by the presense of a new guidebook.
So, go out there, discover the new places, repeat the grown-over routes of yesterday's climbers, and put in some for yourself. I believe that our work will inspire your creativity and be the catalyst for your future adventures.
Jim
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c4c
Mar 7, 2008, 12:38 AM
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cfnubbler wrote: I have decidely mixed emotions about the new book. On one hand, Jim and Jeremy have obviously done a simply tremendous job on it, and it will serve as a great resource for folks. On the other hand, one of the great appeals of the Adirondacks has always been the sense of wildness and adventure still very much alive in the climbing scene there. In my opinion, Don's guidebooks embody this spirit, and I lament its demise, which this new book will hasten. I LIKE that the Adirondacks are a backwater area! In my opinion, this book is a step toward homogenizing the presently unique Adirondack climbing experience. Some of my fondest climbing memories involve backountry Adirondack climbs found with second and third hand approach beta, little or no route descriptions, and a good partner willing to just go have a look! It does look like a superbly done book though, and yeah, I've got one on order too.
There is still plenty of backcountry stuff in the Adirondacks that aren't going to be in the book. There is also tons of great stuff that is in the new book that wasn't in the old one. Including brand new bouldering areas that have barely been scratched as far as development. Plenty of FA's if you are willing to work for them.
RangerRick, It has nothing to do with me being a "Jesus freak" and everything to do with you being a crusty old troll.
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rangerrob
Mar 7, 2008, 12:47 AM
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Well C4C...that much is true...I am a crusty old Troll. I'm glad we agree on something.
By the way..it's Rob, not Rick. He was the animal lover and writer of many a childrens magazine.
(This post was edited by rangerrob on Mar 7, 2008, 12:51 AM)
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cfnubbler
Mar 7, 2008, 12:58 AM
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Hi Jim-
No offense was intended, and hopefully none was taken. As I attempted to make clear, I have a great deal of respect for the job you guys have done. I just personally believe that the level of detail your book will apparently provide may not be in keeping with the character and spirit of the place. I know full well that others will disagree, but my fear is that the book may be too detailed!
For what it's worth, I think you did a fine job of reaching out to the local community for input on what to include, what to leave out, ect., and I thank you for that. We have several mutual aquaintences and partners, and through them I actually felt like my perspectives on some of these issues, especially the inclusion of a few never before published cliffs, were heard. As I said, I just have mixed feelings about it. I'll reserve final judgement until I have the final product in hand, and we see what, if any impact it has on the place and the vibe. Even then I'll certainly harbor no hard feelings toward you guys. I know you have the best of intentions.
Cheers, and hope to see you on some obscure Adirondack gem one of these days.
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onceahardman
Mar 7, 2008, 1:48 AM
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In reply to: I'm still using Mellors's green guidebook.
Well, rob, I have Trudy Healy's blue book, Tom Rosecrans' little green book, Mellor's blue book, and Mellor's green book.
Mellor's original blue book, (plus the additional insert a few years later which could be inserted into the screw-post binding) was light years ahead of Rosecrans.
I never bought the red book either. Actually, I though it was not a huge improvement over the green.
This book looks like it could be among the finest guidebooks ever written, to a complex area which defies easy description. I'm really excited about it. Thanks Jim!
ps, I'm one of the guys who reached you regarding a FA from years ago, which will be in this addition!
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jimlawyer
Mar 7, 2008, 3:48 AM
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No offense at all. I have heard those concerns expressed many times over the last few years, and I thought this was a good opportunity to put my thoughts into words.
Perhaps the root of my objection is that I don't think the "character and spirit" of the place is wholely defined by minimal documentation. A book defines/describes what is there, whereas character and spirit are defined by the place itself.
In general, other characteristics define the region for me -- long approaches, isolation, views uninterrupted by man's presense (obviously putting aside the roadside areas), shredding my clothes, lichen dust pooled in my eyes, excavating protection placements with my nut tool, rain, biting insects, unbearable humidity, crystal-clear swimming holes, and bloody hard routes.
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jimlawyer
Mar 7, 2008, 4:00 AM
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So, you gonna keep me guessing, or tell me which route we talked about  ? (I spoke with more than 300 FAers...)
...and for the record, here's a list of the region's guidebooks:
1967 Trudy Healy
1972 Trudy Healy, second edition
1976 Rosecrans, small green guide
1983 Mellor's blue plastic cover book
1986 Mellor's supplement to the 1986 guide
1988 Mellor's green guide
1994 Mellor's green guide, second edition with addendum
1995 Mellor's red book
There have been several reprintings of the red book (1997, 2002) to correct several errors. The latest printing doesn't have rounded corners.
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crackers
Mar 7, 2008, 3:40 PM
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cfnubbler wrote: In my opinion, Don's guidebooks embody this spirit, and I lament its demise, which this new book will hasten. I LIKE that the Adirondacks are a backwater area! In my opinion, this book is a step toward homogenizing the presently unique Adirondack climbing experience. Some of my fondest climbing memories involve backountry Adirondack climbs found with second and third hand approach beta, little or no route descriptions, and a good partner willing to just go have a look!
jimlawyer wrote: In general, other characteristics define the region for me -- long approaches, isolation, views uninterrupted by man's presense (obviously putting aside the roadside areas), shredding my clothes, lichen dust pooled in my eyes, excavating protection placements with my nut tool, rain, biting insects, unbearable humidity, crystal-clear swimming holes, and bloody hard routes.
To be entirely honest, I've barely scratched the surface of the routes that are available in the Adirondacks. I've climbed rock on crags I've never been to with three kinds of beta: RangerRob's, Mellor's, and J&J's new book. I will refrain from mentioning the "beta" of certain bivy people...
Rob's beta got me lost. I couldn't even find the stream where I left my six pack to cool off, and I ended up on the other side of the great peaks and had to hitchhike back to the car.
Don's beta was fine. I think it went something like, walk into the woods till you see the boulder, turn left, and then find the cliff. The route you want is hard, so it's easy to find. We found the cliff after 4.5 beercan wall movement equivalent units, and bivied for the night. We found the route (i think) about 11 the next morning, and we got off the route in the dark. We found our way back to the sixer and the car sometime in the night. I have no idea how Don et al could describe it as a "quick run"...
J&J's beta was great. We followed the path as accurately described, except for the slightly interesting timing of the hike in. J&J apparently run everywhere and use a rack that would make Rich Romano's look robust. The beta was something like "The terrain is steep and blanketed by extremely thick, head high, ground cover, most of which is mixed with prickly plants and thistles that hide loose boulders and holes." We proved extremely competent in finding the holes. We found the route, and despite the best attempts of Jim and Jeremy to describe the route (go up, go left, go right, go left, go left and then right), I managed to do a "first ascent" of a wholly unexpected moderate that I'd give a T-1 grade for those pulling the tree or 5.9 for the free move. After finishing the route, we rapped off of dead, (re)movable trees and wandered back through the thistles, holes and prickly shrubbery to find our packs which had been visited by a wild animal in search of food. Good thing we hung them, bad thing the animal could a) climb trees and b) get inside of one of the packs. It started raining. Obviously, we enjoyed one of the Adirondacks finest pleasures, mudding, for several hours as we made our way back out to the trail head.
After these experiences (and more than a few others...), my confidence that even if somebody did Dick Williams style measurements of all the routes in the Adirondacks, the wilderness character of the area will be intact as long as we (the voters of NY state) continue to support the Preserve as a wild area. I don't want to EVER see it, but I suspect that even if somebody painted on the names of routes at the bottom as done in Europe, it really would not make much of a difference to the animals hungrily waiting for stupid climbers to leave their lunch on the ground...
Now that we can find the cliffs, sure, there will be added responsibility for all of us in the community to ensure we don't make herd trails and we keep the Preserve clean. In my opinion, J&J's guidebook --beyond being a technical masterpiece-- will only serve to build a larger community of vocal advocates to support the Preserve and the Adirondack climbing experience.
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jimlawyer
Mar 12, 2008, 1:19 PM
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crackers,
Thanks for the amusing recollections. Sounds like you're talking about Wallface. HA - if there were brass plaques at the base of every route, they would still be hard to find. In the full bloom of summer, the foliage is rather intense.
Jim
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piton
Mar 12, 2008, 4:27 PM
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I've been to cliffs in the Daks that are not even in the new J&J book. the adveture is still out there
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c4c
Mar 13, 2008, 7:40 PM
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piton wrote: I've been to cliffs in the Daks that are not even in the new J&J book. the adveture is still out there
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piton
Mar 13, 2008, 8:15 PM
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in the Adirondacks grab a topo map.
don't ask again I don't give away secrets to people on the internet
(This post was edited by piton on Mar 14, 2008, 12:58 PM)
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