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glytch
Oct 28, 2008, 4:59 PM
Post #26 of 52
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clausti wrote: i hate the rubber on my sportiva mythos. i hate it so much i'm sorry i bought the shoes. was suppose to be my 'trad' shoe, except i hate it and wear my 3rd-resole wasabis for everything.
+1. My Mythos are the least confidence-inspiring shoes I've ever used. I thought I was alone in thinking the rubber's terrible, but I'm apparently not alone. I've had mine a little over a year, and to their credit they don't yet need a resole. To their detriment, they're awful. I'm going to have them resoled anyway and I'm deciding what to put on'em...
to Curt: Mine are the new tan colored ones with, I believe, XS. To be fair, they've been climbed in a lot and probably should be wire-brushed or something... that said, even new they were lousy.
In back-to-back comparisons, my acopas stick to things that the mythos grease right off of. That said, the spectre might be the perfect shoe...
Finally, I agree with whoever said mad rocks take time to break in. I picked up a pair of flashes for mostly gym use, and they were initially really pretty hard... after 10 days with a combination of gym and trad, they're excellent!
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markmyhsieh
Oct 28, 2008, 5:11 PM
Post #27 of 52
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mushroomsamba wrote: I'm a big fan of sportiva shoes and rubber, but stealth c4 comes in real close. mad rock can suck a dick
Check out this video uploaded by www.spadout.com.
http://video.google.com/...d+rock+friction+test
~markmyhsieh
Mad Rock Climbing
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clausti
Oct 28, 2008, 5:29 PM
Post #28 of 52
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curt wrote: clausti wrote: i hate the rubber on my sportiva mythos. i hate it so much i'm sorry i bought the shoes. was suppose to be my 'trad' shoe, except i hate it and wear my 3rd-resole wasabis for everything. Do your Mythos have the newer "XS" rubber--or the older stuff? Curt
i bought them less than 4 months ago, i assume they have the new rubber.
i haven't even worn them enough to get the gloss off the rubber because they're so awful. it's like wearing bowling shoes. they're really slick and so thick i can't feel the rock at all.
it's like, who the fuck had the great idea to make a "trad" shoe for rock like granite that requires really precise footwork, and then make it a clown shoe. or for crack climbing- except you can't get your food IN the crack!
and everybody raves about them. i am utterly bemused.
edited to add- does anybody want to buy a pair of very slightly used sportiva mythos? can be used for a women who wears street shoe size 7. i hear they're great for trad climbs where footwork isnt an issue. 
(This post was edited by clausti on Oct 28, 2008, 5:31 PM)
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carabiner96
Oct 28, 2008, 5:33 PM
Post #29 of 52
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+1 to sucky mythos rubber.
and +1 to awesome mad rock rubber. while not the longest lasting, it is super sticky.
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shockabuku
Oct 28, 2008, 5:43 PM
Post #30 of 52
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clausti wrote: curt wrote: clausti wrote: i hate the rubber on my sportiva mythos. i hate it so much i'm sorry i bought the shoes. was suppose to be my 'trad' shoe, except i hate it and wear my 3rd-resole wasabis for everything. Do your Mythos have the newer "XS" rubber--or the older stuff? Curt i bought them less than 4 months ago, i assume they have the new rubber. i haven't even worn them enough to get the gloss off the rubber because they're so awful. it's like wearing bowling shoes. they're really slick and so thick i can't feel the rock at all. it's like, who the fuck had the great idea to make a "trad" shoe for rock like granite that requires really precise footwork, and then make it a clown shoe. or for crack climbing- except you can't get your food IN the crack! and everybody raves about them. i am utterly bemused. edited to add- does anybody want to buy a pair of very slightly used sportiva mythos? can be used for a women who wears street shoe size 7. i hear they're great for trad climbs where footwork isnt an issue.
Weird. Never had a problem with my mythos being slippery or not sensitive. But mine are old and about on their fourth resole and I went into them from a pair of Aces.
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the_climber
Oct 28, 2008, 5:52 PM
Post #31 of 52
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While I will agree that some rubber has benefits, I think a lot of you are giving your shoes far too much credit.
Seriously, iz climber not shoez!
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rockforlife
Oct 28, 2008, 5:52 PM
Post #32 of 52
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the_climber wrote: Best overall climbing shoe rubber I've found is the trax that Evolv is using. Opinions are oppinions though. Iz climber not shoe.
I would watch out with Evolv i had two friends get two different shoes and both had the same problem of the rubber spliting off of the shoe. this happended within the first few weeks. And no it was not from them draging there feet up the wall, as Evolv told them.
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the_climber
Oct 28, 2008, 5:54 PM
Post #33 of 52
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rockforlife wrote: the_climber wrote: Best overall climbing shoe rubber I've found is the trax that Evolv is using. Opinions are oppinions though. Iz climber not shoe. I would watch out with Evolv i had two friends get two different shoes and both had the same problem of the rubber spliting off of the shoe. this happended within the first few weeks. And no it was not from them draging there feet up the wall, as Evolv told them.
A full summer of new routing and aiding by both me and my partner and nerither of our shoes has any problems...
Iz climber not shoez
(This post was edited by the_climber on Oct 28, 2008, 5:54 PM)
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glahhg
Oct 28, 2008, 5:55 PM
Post #34 of 52
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carabiner96 wrote: I really like the traxion that scarpa uses on the techno. i mean, i really like the shoe overall, but the rubber is just soooo kick ass. As for vibram, they mae some good soles, and some great ones, and some real, real shitty ones. Don't let a brand name be your only factor in selecting a shoe - nor should the sole be the only factor.
Strange... I actually found that the scarpa techno skates all over the place and can't smear worth a damn.
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currupt4130
Oct 28, 2008, 5:58 PM
Post #35 of 52
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markmyhsieh wrote: mushroomsamba wrote: I'm a big fan of sportiva shoes and rubber, but stealth c4 comes in real close. mad rock can suck a dick Check out this video uploaded by www.spadout.com. http://video.google.com/...d+rock+friction+test ~markmyhsieh Mad Rock Climbing
What Vibram rubber did you test there? There are several different varieties. I'm curious to know which flavor it was...
(This post was edited by currupt4130 on Oct 28, 2008, 6:00 PM)
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clausti
Oct 28, 2008, 6:14 PM
Post #36 of 52
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the_climber wrote: rockforlife wrote: the_climber wrote: Best overall climbing shoe rubber I've found is the trax that Evolv is using. Opinions are oppinions though. Iz climber not shoe. I would watch out with Evolv i had two friends get two different shoes and both had the same problem of the rubber spliting off of the shoe. this happended within the first few weeks. And no it was not from them draging there feet up the wall, as Evolv told them. A full summer of new routing and aiding by both me and my partner and nerither of our shoes has any problems... Iz climber not shoez
rubber CAN be somewhat inconsistent. see also:conversations about onyx.
for the most part i agree, it's the climber not the shoe, but you will always climb best in a shoe that you like best, for whatever reason. my ideal shoe is overal snug but soft, with a harder rim where you would edge. so i don't like shoes that are stiff with hard rubber, like mythos.
oh, and i cant imagine rubber splitting from you dragging your feet. wearing through, certainly. (popping from pressure when it gets really thin, yes.) but close to full-depth rubber splitting is structural or cold damage, i would think.
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markmyhsieh
Oct 28, 2008, 6:26 PM
Post #37 of 52
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The test was done between Vibram's XS and Five Tens Onyx and our Science Friction 2.2
~markmyhsieh
Mad Rock Climbing
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the_climber
Oct 28, 2008, 6:46 PM
Post #38 of 52
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clausti wrote: oh, and i cant imagine rubber splitting from you dragging your feet. wearing through, certainly. (popping from pressure when it gets really thin, yes.) but close to full-depth rubber splitting is structural or cold damage, i would think.
My experiance with shoes and resoling shoes is that heat is a more likely cause for delaminating (or splitting as other have called it). Dragging your feet can speed it up too, and /or be the root cause; I've seen it many times.
The performance of all rubber is effected by heat. With a proper fitting shoe any climber can get the performance they require. Most climbers are in the wrong shoe, be it the wrong fit, style, or simply too tight of a shoe. Yes certain designs lend benefits to certain styles of climbing. Down turned toes can help increase pressure on overhanging climbs and give a mechnical advantage, narrow toe boxes fit small cracks better, wider toeboxes lend themselves to wide cracks, some argue that soft shoes smear better... the latter being more of a finction of rubber thickness and last design. People blame the shoe too much for their own lack of tequnique far too often.
The best shoe is the one that fits best, period. Is some rubber better than others, likely yes. But look at what was climbed with shoes of bygone days. Ballet, Aces, EB's, you name it.
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clausti
Oct 28, 2008, 6:49 PM
Post #39 of 52
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the_climber wrote: clausti wrote: oh, and i cant imagine rubber splitting from you dragging your feet. wearing through, certainly. (popping from pressure when it gets really thin, yes.) but close to full-depth rubber splitting is structural or cold damage, i would think. My experiance with shoes and resoling shoes is that heat is a more likely cause for delaminating (or splitting as other have called it).
hm. when they said the rubber "split", I was not picturing a delam, which, i agree, is more likely caused by heat, and can be exacerbated by dragging, since it puts shear stress on the glue bonding the rubber to your uppers.
by "splitting", i am picturing something i have seen only rarely, where the rubber itself literally spits, still glued to the shoe on the backside, but a fissure opens in it vertically as if it had been stabbed.
which I personally speculate would be caused by cold damage, as cold can cause some polymers, including synthetic rubber, to become brittle.
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rockforlife
Oct 28, 2008, 7:01 PM
Post #40 of 52
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clausti wrote: the_climber wrote: clausti wrote: oh, and i cant imagine rubber splitting from you dragging your feet. wearing through, certainly. (popping from pressure when it gets really thin, yes.) but close to full-depth rubber splitting is structural or cold damage, i would think. My experiance with shoes and resoling shoes is that heat is a more likely cause for delaminating (or splitting as other have called it). hm. when they said the rubber "split", I was not picturing a delam, which, i agree, is more likely caused by heat, and can be exacerbated by dragging, since it puts shear stress on the glue bonding the rubber to your uppers. by "splitting", i am picturing something i have seen only rarely, where the rubber itself literally spits, still glued to the shoe on the backside, but a fissure opens in it vertically as if it had been stabbed. which I personally speculate would be caused by cold damage, as cold can cause some polymers, including synthetic rubber, to become brittle.
Sorry that was my bad it was a delam but it was not because of drag. i climbed with both friends and there shoes split or delamed, in a spot where there was almost no noticeable wear
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clausti
Oct 28, 2008, 7:04 PM
Post #41 of 52
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rockforlife wrote: clausti wrote: the_climber wrote: clausti wrote: oh, and i cant imagine rubber splitting from you dragging your feet. wearing through, certainly. (popping from pressure when it gets really thin, yes.) but close to full-depth rubber splitting is structural or cold damage, i would think. My experiance with shoes and resoling shoes is that heat is a more likely cause for delaminating (or splitting as other have called it). hm. when they said the rubber "split", I was not picturing a delam, which, i agree, is more likely caused by heat, and can be exacerbated by dragging, since it puts shear stress on the glue bonding the rubber to your uppers. by "splitting", i am picturing something i have seen only rarely, where the rubber itself literally spits, still glued to the shoe on the backside, but a fissure opens in it vertically as if it had been stabbed. which I personally speculate would be caused by cold damage, as cold can cause some polymers, including synthetic rubber, to become brittle. Sorry that was my bad it was a delam but it was not because of drag. i climbed with both friends and there shoes split or delamed, in a spot where there was almost no noticeable wear
well, like the_climber said, if you leave your shoes in the car with the windows up, you can delam them without any visible wear.
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rockforlife
Oct 28, 2008, 7:51 PM
Post #42 of 52
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clausti wrote: rockforlife wrote: clausti wrote: the_climber wrote: clausti wrote: oh, and i cant imagine rubber splitting from you dragging your feet. wearing through, certainly. (popping from pressure when it gets really thin, yes.) but close to full-depth rubber splitting is structural or cold damage, i would think. My experiance with shoes and resoling shoes is that heat is a more likely cause for delaminating (or splitting as other have called it). hm. when they said the rubber "split", I was not picturing a delam, which, i agree, is more likely caused by heat, and can be exacerbated by dragging, since it puts shear stress on the glue bonding the rubber to your uppers. by "splitting", i am picturing something i have seen only rarely, where the rubber itself literally spits, still glued to the shoe on the backside, but a fissure opens in it vertically as if it had been stabbed. which I personally speculate would be caused by cold damage, as cold can cause some polymers, including synthetic rubber, to become brittle. Sorry that was my bad it was a delam but it was not because of drag. i climbed with both friends and there shoes split or delamed, in a spot where there was almost no noticeable wear well, like the_climber said, if you leave your shoes in the car with the windows up, you can delam them without any visible wear.
I'm not trying to rip on Evolv but they droped the ball on this one. The shoes were not in any extrem temps, hot or cold. were only used a ew times and came apart. and then would not even do anything about it. This was after is took well over a month to get the shoes in. Hopefully they have fixed any problems and there shoes will perform well.
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jkinstrey
Oct 28, 2008, 8:00 PM
Post #43 of 52
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If the truth were known about rubber there would only be one shoe company! hahahaha
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Betahappy
Oct 28, 2008, 9:21 PM
Post #44 of 52
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i love lasportiva shoe rubber
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wmfork
Oct 28, 2008, 10:48 PM
Post #45 of 52
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clausti wrote: i bought them less than 4 months ago, i assume they have the new rubber. i haven't even worn them enough to get the gloss off the rubber because they're so awful. it's like wearing bowling shoes. they're really slick and so thick i can't feel the rock at all.
clausti wrote: it's like, who the fuck had the great idea to make a "trad" shoe for rock like granite that requires really precise footwork, and then make it a clown shoe. or for crack climbing- except you can't get your food IN the crack! and everybody raves about them. i am utterly bemused. 
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vegastradguy
Oct 28, 2008, 10:49 PM
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markmyhsieh wrote: The test was done between Vibram's XS and Five Tens Onyx and our Science Friction 2.2 ~markmyhsieh Mad Rock Climbing
we should note that the SF 2.2 is MR's new rubber, which, if its even on their shoes, is brand new. I believe they said it will be phased in over the next few months.
I also seem to recall that it was stealth, not onyx....i recall asking if they had onyx to test and they said that they didnt....hrm....
sf 2.2 did test well, though. the test i witnessed, it outperformed XS and stealth.
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clausti
Oct 28, 2008, 10:51 PM
Post #47 of 52
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wmfork wrote: clausti wrote: i bought them less than 4 months ago, i assume they have the new rubber. i haven't even worn them enough to get the gloss off the rubber because they're so awful. it's like wearing bowling shoes. they're really slick and so thick i can't feel the rock at all. I don't know what thickness rubber the mythos have, I have miura, viper with XS Grip rubber and have resoled each a couple of times with it (once with thicker rubber on the miura). They are definitely softer than Onyx and the older XSV rubber (the XSGrip has "vibram" and "XSGrip" logos molded a few inches apart into the rubber sheet, you'll know if you have it). So far, I've had very consistent experience with it. The last resole looked slightly slicker when I got it back, but I had absolutely no issue with the rubber on Moonlight (my crack skillz can use some upgrade). clausti wrote: it's like, who the fuck had the great idea to make a "trad" shoe for rock like granite that requires really precise footwork, and then make it a clown shoe. or for crack climbing- except you can't get your food IN the crack! and everybody raves about them. i am utterly bemused. What, your hubby didn't recommend against those?
he thought it would be a good idea.
and the soles do have "vibram" molded into them, i remember that much. the rubber is just so hard! every time i put them on i frown. :(
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lagwagonpcp
Oct 28, 2008, 10:54 PM
Post #48 of 52
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stealth stealthy stealtherton, whatever stealth you feel is the best go for it i use onyx and c4, i have heard good things about hf tho
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curt
Oct 28, 2008, 10:58 PM
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C4 has been my personal favorite for years, although I have Onyx on a couple of newer pairs of 5.10s, and it seems fine too. I will say that the Acopa rubber on the pair of Spectres that I recently got seems REALLY sticky.
Curt
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Maddhatter
Oct 29, 2008, 3:47 AM
Post #50 of 52
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C4
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