|
|
|
|
jamesellis
Nov 6, 2008, 1:58 AM
Post #1 of 36
(3716 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 17, 2006
Posts: 49
|
Okay so basically I know next to nothing about training but here it goes. I got most of my information from Eric Horst's book, and some from Rockprodigy's article. Feel free to tell me what's too much, what's not enough, what's a waste of time, what I should be doing, etc. Any time-saving alternatives to my exercises would be greatly appreciated too.
Weekly Schedule-
Monday: Aerobic, Rest
Tuesday: Finger Conditioning, Anaerobic endurance training, core conditioning.
Wednesday: Aerobic, Rest
Thursday: Finger Conditioning, Strength/Power, Core Conditioning
Friday: Aerobic, Rest
Saturday: Anaerobic Endurance, Stamina, Core Conditioning
Sunday: Finger Conditioning, Strength/Power, Core Conditioning
Exercises-
Finger Conditioning: Fingerboard repeaters (5 second hangs, 5 second rest, 10 per set), One-arm traversing, Fingerboard pyramids (4-6-8-10-8-6-4 second hangs w/ 5-second rests between)
Anaerobic Endurance: Frenchies (5- second lockoffs at varying degrees of a pullup), Pullup intervals, Route intervals or 4X4's.
Strength: Pullups and pullup variations (weighted, uneven, etc.), Campus lockoffs.
Power: Power pullups, Campus laddering.
Stamina: long traversing intervals.
Core Conditioning: Feet-up crunches, Oblique crunches, Knee lifts, Aquamans, Bruce Lees, 2-limb bridges and eventually Front levers.
How does that look? I wasn't sure how many days a week to do each type of training. A trainer at the gym said three days of finger conditioning a week would be alright, but looking at it on paper seems like it might be a bit much for a four-day schedule. Also, all of these exercises (besides aerobic) will be done after a solid warm up and about an hour of general climbing.
Getting all of the exercises in is quite time consuming, so tips on faster exercises would be cool.
|
|
|
|
|
hopperhopper
Nov 6, 2008, 7:22 AM
Post #2 of 36
(3678 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 29, 2007
Posts: 475
|
Right off the bat I can tell you: not enough rest. You should have at LEAST one (two is better) rest day(s). "Aerobic, Rest" is not a rest, it's Aerobic. On rest days you should do nothing but stretch and drink water. Maybe walk if you need to get out, but nothing that will fatigue muscles, especially the ones you have worked recently.
To save/make time, either combine exercise days into one session and/or decrease the amount of exercising you're doing. Many trainers think one fully-fatigued workout per muscle group per week is ideal. You have muscle groups being worked 3 and 4 times a week, which many would agree is over working...especially here at the beginning.
Specifically, four days of core training is too much. Yes the abs recover more quickly than just about any other group, but they still need time to rebuild. Reduce that to 2/week, three at the most.
In short: Don't over work muscles (that schedule would over work just about every group), and consolidate exercise sessions to create more rest time. When you rest, rest.
|
|
|
|
|
borntorocku
Nov 6, 2008, 6:53 PM
Post #3 of 36
(3622 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 12, 2003
Posts: 88
|
Are you training to train or training to climb?
|
|
|
|
|
jamesellis
Nov 6, 2008, 8:25 PM
Post #5 of 36
(3575 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 17, 2006
Posts: 49
|
Thanks a lot. I posted this with the main purpose of slimming it down because like I said I know nothing about proper training.
From what I've read it seems like running is okay on rest days though. But in reality rest days are gonna be homework days for me so there won't be much actual aerobic exercise going on, only when I have some extra time.
Thanks again for the helpful feedback.
|
|
|
|
|
kiwiprincess
Nov 6, 2008, 10:42 PM
Post #7 of 36
(3547 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 26, 2007
Posts: 307
|
Wheres the actual climbing?
|
|
|
|
|
jamesellis
Nov 7, 2008, 1:21 AM
Post #8 of 36
(3525 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 17, 2006
Posts: 49
|
In a gym.
|
|
|
|
|
kiwiprincess
Nov 7, 2008, 1:53 AM
Post #9 of 36
(3512 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 26, 2007
Posts: 307
|
Uh....where in the schedule?
|
|
|
|
|
jamesellis
Nov 7, 2008, 2:22 AM
Post #10 of 36
(3502 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 17, 2006
Posts: 49
|
1-2 hours of gym climbing to start each workout. Outdoor climbing won't be happening for a while because ski season is starting soon and climbing in Washington during the winter sucks. I might get one or two weekends in before winter but thats a big maybe. The purpose of this plan is to help me stay strong/ improve over the winter so I can be ready for my spring road trip.
|
|
|
|
|
hopperhopper
Nov 7, 2008, 5:40 AM
Post #11 of 36
(3474 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 29, 2007
Posts: 475
|
jamesellis wrote: 1-2 hours of gym climbing to start each workout. Outdoor climbing won't be happening for a while because ski season is starting soon and climbing in Washington during the winter sucks. I might get one or two weekends in before winter but thats a big maybe. The purpose of this plan is to help me stay strong/ improve over the winter so I can be ready for my spring road trip.
OKAY I didn't even factor in 2 hours of climbing before each session. With that, you need to cut weeeeeeey down on your frequency. Work each muscle group no more than twice a week, and get 2 rest days in there. I'll say it again - an aerobic day is not a rest day. Your body needs to use energy to repair muscles, not expend it aerobically.
The #1 reason people don't see desired results in their training is because they overtrain.
I'm coming down to the last week of a 12-week strength training program I created last spring. It's a lifting regimen that requires only one workout per week per muscle group. This means I only use any given muscle group once a week. At first this scared the crap out of me because I thought I was wasting my time. The results have proven me very, very wrong.
|
|
|
|
|
crimpit
Nov 7, 2008, 1:04 PM
Post #12 of 36
(3435 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 6, 2008
Posts: 3
|
I strongly recommend and I'm surprised to see nobody else mentioned it but for gods sake do some antagonistic training too or you will regret it when your injured.Pushups,dips,reverse wrist curls,hammer curls(to prevent brachialis/brachioradialis injuries) and get a rubber thera?? band(those things physios give you) and play around doing movements opposite to climbing.All of these are just a bit of insurance against injuries but are all worth doing.
|
|
|
|
|
jto
Nov 7, 2008, 1:22 PM
Post #13 of 36
(3433 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 18, 2004
Posts: 272
|
I think the program seems quite ok. Not too much training at all even if Iīd cut down the non climbing workouts a bit depending of your base fitness level. The thing you have to keep in mind is that you have to keep some easier phases along when jumping on this kind of high volume training. For example two weeks hard and one easy.
Of course you canīt start with a high volume program instantly but build up to it. It pays off as a better overall fitness in climbing too. If you want to stress climbing then keep your supportive training easier on volume.
Then again you should plan everything in phases. First you might stress overall conditioning more and then switch to a phase where you climb more. Usually this works best in the start of a new training year.
Iīve been coaching strength and power related sports for over 15 years and usually people think way too much that they canīt train a bodypart or movement letīs say more than once or twice a week. Complete nonsense.
I have had excellent results in very different programs. For example in powerlifting somenone has done squat only once in two weeks and another squats two times a day (!) both being very strong. Drugfree, of course.
Other nice example is a guy who had an absolute max chin of 5x35 kgs and thatīs it. Even the second set went down to 5x25 or so and not even a dream of a second weekly workout. Lotīs of stress of the coming workout and results etc. Well...after 6 months he did a comparative test phase with that same weight and could do 10x5x35 kgs every day for 16 days in a row. Max reps with 35 kgs went up to 18. So thatīs it for once a week for him. Same results came with other lifts like bench, squat and deadlift.
It all depends on the person, phase, abilities, background, goals, other training etc... So a climber differs none from an ordinary athlete. Iīm a 39 years old former weightlifter turned to a climber 6 years and 30 kgs ago and during the summer itīs not uncommon for me to do 3-4 workouts a day. A week could look like this:
MON
- bouldering short 3-6 move projects, 2 hours
- fingerboard volume crimps, pinches, 1 hour
- running, swimming or biking, ― hour
- chins, core, ― hour
TUE
- easier bouldering for volume, 2 hours
- fingerboard volume slopers, pockets, 1 hour
- running, swimming or biking, ― hour
- bench etc, core, ― hour
WED
- easy route climbing mileage, 3 hours
- running, swimming or biking, ― hour
THU
- bouldering longer 6-15 move projs, 2 hours
- fingerboard volume crimps, slopers, 1 hour
- running, swimming or biking ― hour
- bench etc, core ― hour
FRI
- rest
SAT
- route projects, 4 hours
- core, ― hour
SUN
- easier bouldering for volume, 2 hours
- fingerboard volume pinches, pockets, 1 hour
- running, swimming or biking, ― hour
- chins, core, ― hour
Usually I did some kind of training for rotator cuffs, stretching etc every day. If I have time for a workout Iīll do it. If I donīt feel like training, I wonīt. Easy.
Cheers
(This post was edited by jto on Nov 7, 2008, 1:27 PM)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
jamesellis
Nov 7, 2008, 8:42 PM
Post #15 of 36
(3359 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 17, 2006
Posts: 49
|
Oh I forgot to mention the antagonist training. Those exercises will be done with the specific muscle groups. So when I do my core training and finger conditioning I will also do some antagonist training.
|
|
|
|
|
villageidiot
Nov 7, 2008, 9:58 PM
Post #16 of 36
(3329 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 12, 2005
Posts: 104
|
If jto's plan works for him, the more the better. That plan would result in an injury in 3-4 weeks for me. You need to get a good idea how much YOU can handle. I have some friends that can put in 5 days a week fine and some that can do 2 days a week at most.
|
|
|
|
|
frankiethefish15
Nov 7, 2008, 10:00 PM
Post #17 of 36
(3328 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 24, 2006
Posts: 23
|
jamesellis wrote: ... Outdoor climbing won't be happening for a while because ski season is starting soon and climbing in Washington during the winter sucks. I might get one or two weekends in before winter but thats a big maybe. The purpose of this plan is to help me stay strong/ improve over the winter so I can be ready for my spring road trip.
Where at in Washington are you living? I lived up there last year and did most of my outdoor climbing during the winter there. Frenchman's Coulee is the place to go during the winter in Washington unless you are a westsider. I was living in Ellensburg, about 40mins from the Coulee. Temperatures were just right for climbing out there.
|
|
|
|
|
jamesellis
Nov 7, 2008, 10:10 PM
Post #18 of 36
(3320 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 17, 2006
Posts: 49
|
Yeah I'm a westsider. Plus during the winter I go into ski mode and really stop caring about climbing from December to about April. Any free time I have from school is spent on the snow.
|
|
|
|
|
frankiethefish15
Nov 7, 2008, 10:40 PM
Post #19 of 36
(3300 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 24, 2006
Posts: 23
|
I know how you feel, while I did get a lot of climbing in over the winter. I spent just as much time up at Steven's Pass.
|
|
|
|
|
dan4geng
Nov 7, 2008, 11:00 PM
Post #20 of 36
(3289 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 29, 2006
Posts: 64
|
Is this training for bouldering or for route climbing? Is your goal just to stay in shape or to improve?
If your trying to just stay in shape then i would just climb 3-4 days/week and do some antagonist exercises. If your trying to improve then i'd say it depends on what level you're at and what your goals are.
Dan
|
|
|
|
|
climb4free
Nov 7, 2008, 11:01 PM
Post #21 of 36
(3288 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 11, 2007
Posts: 283
|
So which one is it
jamesellis wrote: The purpose of this plan is to help me stay strong/ improve over the winter so I can be ready for my spring road trip.
or
jamesellis wrote: Plus during the winter I go into ski mode and really stop caring about climbing from December to about April. Any free time I have from school is spent on the snow.
Sounds like the first part of your training plan should be determining your priorities. Of the three: school, climbing, and skiing, I'd say school is the biggest waste of time and should be cut out completly. Jobs are right out as well. Buy a van and convert it into your home. Drive to the south to climb and back north to ski. Repeat as needed. For gas money, donate blood/plasma on your "rest days". That'll also cover your food budget cuz they give you juice, crackers, and cookies.
Thats all in jest, but seriously, which is your priority, you cant have 100% of both.
|
|
|
|
|
hopperhopper
Nov 7, 2008, 11:39 PM
Post #22 of 36
(3276 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 29, 2007
Posts: 475
|
I'm not saying one workout per muscle group per week is max...I'm saying there is a common opinion (with results to back it up) that it is sufficient.
Take, for example, Rob Riches. Natural body builder and fitness model...spends less than 3 hours a week in the gym. As I said, far more people hinder progress by overtraining than by not training enough.
On a side note, I'm surprised the whole "Well what works for one guy might not work for another" subject is even coming up. That should have been a given from t=0. If you don't understand that principle you don't belong in this thread.
P.S. If you have 4.5 hours a day to train, you need to get a job and go climb more. 
|
|
|
|
|
jamesellis
Nov 7, 2008, 11:49 PM
Post #23 of 36
(3273 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 17, 2006
Posts: 49
|
Actually because of my schedule I can. I go to school during the day, climb afterwards, ski on the weekends, climb afterwards. I'm not working, so I can multitask easily.
|
|
|
|
|
frankiethefish15
Nov 8, 2008, 5:45 AM
Post #24 of 36
(3237 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 24, 2006
Posts: 23
|
I sent you a PM with some info on some climbing workouts.
|
|
|
|
|
jto
Nov 8, 2008, 7:16 AM
Post #25 of 36
(3229 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 18, 2004
Posts: 272
|
Again... I, or anyone else canīt train with both high volume and intensity and all the time. My approach wonīt injure anybody if done correct. Timewise I can do it during the summer as I have a long vacation. Otherwise I train 1-2 times a day. I have two small home walls and a bunch of hangboards etc. to back up the real rock when needed.
As a father of a 4 year old I train when I can so the workouts can pile up a lot during the day. I remember one particular day when I was doing an easy patio building project at my house. I did a couple of hangboard sets and weighted chins whenever I was near the boards. In the end of the day I had done 60 sets of hangs and 45 sets of chins 
None of the sets were at my absolute limit but close to it. There is no need to go to absolute failure all the time but train also with high volumes. You can create phases very easy even with this one difference.
So concerning the overall training plans:
- Vary the intensity how close to your limit the problem is.
- Vary the volume.
- Vary the holds used. Very important injury prevention.
- Vary the wall angle.
- Vary the problem length and type (dynamic, technical...)
- Be progressive, donīt do drastic jumps in volume or intensity.
- Keep the easier weeks along. This counts the most for recuperation. Usually 3:1 or 2:1 is ok.
- Do a lot of training for injury prevention and recuperation.
- etc...
When looking at almost any athlete from running to swimming to weightlifting to athletics to ice hockey to whatever itīs quite normal to do at least one workout per day and during the load periods itīs no wonder that even a-normal-day-job-mr.johnson does two workouts a day. Well...in Finland he might be a-normal-day-job-mr.virtanen...
The bodybuilding world has been very familiar to me for 20 years. The training is usually very hard on subjective intensity scale (ie. the rectum scale ) There are many schools for training frequency, intensity etc, but the same rules are used. If you train very hard you canīt do that very often and vice versa.
Anyway if someone says he goes to the gym 2 or 3 times a week only he usually does aerobic workouts a lot at least during the comp prep phase. Also with weights it good the alternate phases of large volume/lower intensity with low volume/hard intensity. The body likes the change and the change is THE WORD here that Iīm stressing so much.
So why to train a lot with easier intensity and not hard-pain-blood-tears-and-farts all the time? Quite many things come to mind. With a large volume just to name a few things:
- Better technique, you train more often, good for CNS.
- Better base fitness, you train more.
- Injury prevention, you train a lot, but under your absolute limit.
- Easier on the mind, no mental blocks, you donīt have to perform the best once or twice a week because the next workout comes so soon.
- Larger variety or climbing possible, you climb more.
Ok, again, Iīm not against high intensity (subjective or objective) at all, quite the opposite, of course. As said before Iīve been on this game for quite a many years. The thing Iīm saying with all this is that varying your training you create better ways to shock your body to do better results.
Cheers.
(This post was edited by jto on Nov 8, 2008, 7:43 AM)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
1
