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rainman0915
Jan 10, 2009, 1:54 AM
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iv heard people say that the metolius simulator does not have small enough holds for someone who climbs over v8. when i got mine i was looking at it before i put it on the wall i had it upside down and i noticed that all the edges started to slope and there was a couple new edges that were really small. after looking at it for a while it became apparent that it was made to be mounted upside down as well as right side up. so if you wish that your metolius simulator had smaller holds then just go take a look at it upside down 
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andrewG
Jan 10, 2009, 2:28 AM
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But what about us short folks? I have to jump to get to the jugs then work my way down to smaller holds. Don't think I could jump and hang on to those slopey crimps and edges. God forbid I should climb up to the smaller ones.
I know, thats why they make step stools. Looking at it now it seems apparent, but I'd never noticed before. Thanks for the info, if I ever get close to climbing that hard I'll have to flip it over.
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rainman0915
Jan 10, 2009, 3:26 AM
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well the very top (what used to be the bottom) is about as big as the biggest edge and it does not slope, other then that i think the stepping stool is the only way.
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winglessangel
Jan 10, 2009, 9:35 PM
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Other way to make it harder is to place it on a board leaning towards you. Just a small angle should make a difference.
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rainman0915
Jan 11, 2009, 12:34 AM
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that would work but would be hard for people like myself who have it hanging above a doorway, it would also involve carpentry which can get tricky. it does work though i have tried it.
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jto
Jan 11, 2009, 4:22 PM
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very simple carpentry... build a tiltable board where you attach the hangboard to. 5 or so different angles give you a lot more holds to hang on. fast and easy. if you build it right you can adjust the angle in just few seconds.
many boards have too big horizontal edges or too easy slopers where the pressure is not on the tips of the fingers but between the 1st and 2nd joint. hanging from them is almost a waste of time. at least they just make your skin hurt and wonīt build usable strength.
so make sure that even if the hold is big you can feel the most pressure on your tips and not elsewhere on your fingers. this is best achieved by tilting the board.
cheers.
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mandryd
Jan 11, 2009, 9:37 PM
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yeah if you climb v8, basically all the boards on the market will have holds that are too big--especially if you love to climb the crimpy technical routes. I find the smallest crimps on these boards tend to be in the 3/4" to 1" range, which simulates sizes that you generally need to climb all the way to 5.12. Oddly enough, with the advent of new, awesome shoes, 5.12 as a milestone isn't quite as godly as it used to be.
solution:
go get yourself some plywood and some craft wood and make your own holds. there is readily available 1/4" 1/2" 3/4" craft wood that you can use to make small holds in whatever ridiculous size you wish. I believe hanging on 1/2" easily will propel you into the 5.13s. hanging onto 1/4" is just sick. If you're to the 1/2" and 1/4" inch range, then you should probably train campus board stuff.
use less fingers with both hands
eliminate one hand altogether on the bigger holds. being able to do this open handed will do wonders for your power and endurance.
(This post was edited by mandryd on Jan 11, 2009, 9:38 PM)
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rainman0915
Jan 12, 2009, 2:46 AM
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ya i think the smallest hold when u turn it upside down is about 1/4 inch, and there is a 1/2 inch and a one inch too
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elcapinyoazz
Jan 12, 2009, 6:45 PM
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Just add weight to yourself. I hang it off an old harness waist belt with a sling.
You don't need tiny little injury prone holds to get stronger, just add weight until you're reaching failure around the end of the set.
I do sets of 5 x 10sec on/5sec off. If the weight is right, my set looks something like:
First joint edge w/XX lbs: 10s, 10s, 10s, 10s, 8s.
You'll probably need to adjust the weight between grip positions.
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keinangst
Jan 12, 2009, 7:07 PM
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Just get a piece of plywood, cut to size, and install t-nuts and individual climbing holds on it, to your liking.
I've done this with my rock rings and with both t-nut and screw-on holds. Works great! That way you can get exactly the kind of training you're looking for.
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Khoi
Jan 14, 2009, 9:47 AM
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jto wrote: very simple carpentry... build a tiltable board where you attach the hangboard to. 5 or so different angles give you a lot more holds to hang on. fast and easy. if you build it right you can adjust the angle in just few seconds.
I'm interested in that. Any plans? Diagrams? Instructions for building such a setup?
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mandryd
Jan 14, 2009, 9:46 PM
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wasn't there just an article in climbing magazine about how weighted hangs are ineffective? i didn't read the details but i wish i had.
but yeah, the small holds can cause injury, but it's all relative. a small hold to a good climber is going to be ridiculous to a lesser climber.
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sidepull
Jan 14, 2009, 10:42 PM
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is the OP saying s/he can one arm deadhang the smallest holds on the simulator?
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jto
Jan 15, 2009, 8:53 AM
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Weighted hangs are absolutely effective, of course. This is quite simple math and Iīve had very extensive experience in the strength and power field both in training and coaching for almost 20 years.
If I can hang my 180 lbs + 90 extra lbs from a 3/4" edge Iīm quite sure I can hang the same edge without extra weight quite much longer. It doesnīt matter if the edge is wooden and above my door or attached to 1000.000 tons of rock 
Usually training articles in climbing magazines are quite poor in general and they repeat the same old stuff over and over so I wouldnīt care so much about them anyway. Sometimes they even contain false info on physiology etc.
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elcapinyoazz
Jan 15, 2009, 5:03 PM
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mandryd wrote: wasn't there just an article in climbing magazine about how weighted hangs are ineffective? i didn't read the details but i wish i had.
Don't know, as I don't read the trash that passes for climbing magazines these days (alpinist excepted before its demise).
I have training logs from a couple of years of periodized training when I was diligent about writing things down. I used 3 cycles per year, and the logs show around 50lb increases between the beginning and end of a 12 session/(around 36 day) hangboard phase within the cycle and retained gains of 5-15 lbs at the beginning of each new hangboard phase in a new cycle. It works, and works quite well in my experience.
But most people don't use a hangboard properly beacuse it is insanely boring (they do pullups or move around or hang for time or campus).
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sungam
Jan 16, 2009, 12:14 AM
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Flipping it does give you one desperate edge, but the higher (what used to be lower) holds are set back so you can't really use them.
I think winglessbueaty nailed it- tilt it a smidgeon.
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jto
Jan 19, 2009, 3:39 PM
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Sorry but I donīt have any photos that fit here. All exceed 150 KB. Anyway if you want to do some training in your Finnish language skills, please visit my blog to see some ideas on hangboards. The photos were not taken for informational use so they might be a bit mystical
One tiltable board is the fourth pic from the top
http://jolliblog.blogspot.com/...00&max-results=7
...made from everything I had available on one Sunday and yes it could be prettier but it works great from 0 to -30 degrees from vertical.
In the first page
http://jolliblog.blogspot.com/
you can see some other stuff too. Click on the pictures to enlarge them. Please find from the first link, 3rd pic from the top an excellent wooden hangboard that has the best sloper in the world: a half split birch log. Easy to make and very very hard...
Ask anything if you like.
Cheers.
(This post was edited by jto on Jan 19, 2009, 3:42 PM)
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mandryd
Jan 21, 2009, 2:34 AM
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I'm interested in your work here. You improve your strength with weighted hangs--how well did this correlate with your climbing?
I might consider adding this to my routine, but I'd like to hear more info.
I'm currently campusing (body weight) on 1.25 and 0.75 rungs. I have a set of 0.5" rungs bolted on and can barely go 1-2-3 on those (those rungs are ridiculous, especially cause you lose probably 1/16th when you sand the corner round). In the two months that I've been campusing I've gone from mid 12s to being about able to send really powerful mid 13s.
I'm thinking at this point that probably any training you do will probably translate into actual gains in climbing (especially if your technique is already sound and your starting to push 12s).
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elcapinyoazz
Jan 21, 2009, 5:51 PM
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mandryd wrote: I'm interested in your work here. You improve your strength with weighted hangs--how well did this correlate with your climbing?
It really depends on what type climbing you're doing. Obviously it wouldn't make much difference in your ability to paddle up hard slab routes. I mainly climb trad routes, so primarily cracks. I did notice a big difference on crimpy sport routes, as well as thin finger cracks...honestly most of the time in cracks that are solid fingers or larger, it's not a lack of finger strength that limits me. It's usually the muscle in the base of my thumb, overall forearm pump, and losing body tension. The training did raised my sport OS level a few letters at the end of each cycle.
I've been climbing long enough (15 years?) that actual technique (as opposed to "feel") isn't something where I'm going to make leaps and bounds improvements. "Feel" is just about how much mileage I'm getting, when I'm climbing outside 3-4 days/week I get dialed into exactly how hard I need to torque jams, what I can smear on and expect it to stick, etc. You are more efficient/faster and smoother.
I'm at the stage where neglected things can make big differences. for example, I added some focused core training and felt like it made a big difference in any type of climbing. On alot of routes I could tell that my core being fatigued and slack was more of an issue than pumped forearms or lack of finger strength. I'm trying to incorporate some yoga type stuff now.
That said, fingerboarding works very well to develop strength. Campusing can cause great improvements in contact strength/max recruitment and dynamic abilites, but if you do it continuously without cycling it on and off in phases, you are courting almost certain injury. Chronic elbow inflammation is likely, usually in the lateral case (tennis elbow as opposed to golfers).
The Anderson bros are pretty good case studies that fingerboarding does make a big difference. But it is only a tool. In my case, during each hangboard phase my finger strength increases roughly 30% of my bodyweight. That's a pretty big difference.
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Khoi
Jan 29, 2009, 8:41 PM
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Thanks for the pics, JTO!
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overlord
Feb 2, 2009, 11:12 AM
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if its too easy for you, just add some weight. the easiest for me is to put on a harness and hang something from it
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