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sidewedge
Feb 6, 2009, 12:37 AM
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To make a long story short, I herniated L4/L5 3 years ago at the ripe age of 18. I had a laminectomy and recovered 100%, until January when I somehow managed to herniate L5/S1. I already had a big trip planned to Red Rocks for the end of February, and still plan on going and doing some climbing. I've been to the gym a few times since the injury and actually feel much looser after, although I've been taking it super easy and haven't fallen on lead. Anyone else climb with a severely herniated disk & sciatica and have any suggestions? I'm planning on climbing well within my ability level and skipping the hanging belays. (and I know the smartest thing would be to not climb at all, but the ticket is already booked, and its 60 degrees warmer in Vegas than here, so if all else fails I will be sitting in the sunshine for a week)
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esoteric1
Feb 6, 2009, 1:27 AM
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Ive got a friend thats scheduled to get the first round of experimental faux discs. she cant walk to the car without an oxycontin....i would get a wheelchair and roll around on the strip, blowing out a part of you that is involved in just about everything you do, isnt worth pulling on crappy sandstone imo...
id find a nice machine to give the stink eye and hope god feels sory for you.
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circello
Feb 10, 2009, 3:35 PM
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Hi Sidewedge,
I had the exact problem you describe - herniated L5/S1. I, too, almost always felt better during/after climbing. I actively avoided bouldering (not because of body positioning, but because of the possibility of jarring falls) and tried to stick to routes where I knew I would not fall. Other than that I did not really cut back on climbing. Keep an awareness on the pain, and dial it back if your style of climbing seems to aggravate it.
The exercises I did during my rehab seemed to help, but eventually I needed a cortisone shot into my spine (too much sitting at a computer all day to get it healed). Not horrible, but not pleasant either, and that seemed to fix me up right. The main exercise that seemed to help was basically the 10 reps of something similair to cobra pose (Do ten push-ups but leave your lower body flat on the ground) a couple times a day. Staying generally active (aside from running, which to this day aggravates it) seemed to help as well. Pay attention to your posture, and try not to lift anything with bad form.
Best of luck!
BC
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TheGr8Doughboy
Feb 13, 2009, 2:25 AM
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I herniated two disks with in a year when I was 16. One was a Schmorl's nodes in my lower back (soccer injury) and the other was a smaller "regular" herniated disk right between my shoulder blades (mountian bike crash). After the second one the doctor the damage was done and won't heal until I took a break but said I could keep going with a PT helping me. I had severe pain if I twisted wrong and crawled off of the soccer field a number of times cause I couldn't walk for the pain. But for the most part I kept going wide open. The PT kept me focused on stretching and working my back (like the "cobra position" circello mentioned). I waited about 4 years before I took a season off and now another couple of years later everything seem to be good.
My position on the bike hurt me more than taking a hit in soccer or under rotating on skis. I remember after a long and rough race I sit up at the finish line and blacked out on account of the pain... luckly someone caught me before I hit the ground and got me off the bike... good times...
Not medical advice... other than to take to your doctor. Hopefully they can help you keep going till you have time to heal up.
Chris
(This post was edited by TheGr8Doughboy on Feb 13, 2009, 2:28 AM)
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reno
Feb 13, 2009, 2:52 AM
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I had a herniated disk in my neck (C6-7) that did not resolve/improve with PT and two epidural injections. Surgery had me 95% pain free three days later, and now, almost 2 years post-op, I'm 99% pain free.
My understanding of the medical literature on this is that surgery for a cervical herniation is generally more successful than for lumbar herniations. I'd suspect that's due to the lower back bearing more weight than the neck, but that's only a guess.
Regardless, take the time to find a well-respected neurosurgeon, talk to him/her and ask a lot of questions, and don't try to cut short the "limited activity" time. I spent two weeks wearing a neck brace, during which I could not drive or even ride in a car, couldn't bike, couldn't swim, couldn't do much more than walk slowly and sit around the house. It was teh suck, but I've no doubt that it contributed to my healing process.
Good luck.
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Renty
Feb 13, 2009, 2:58 AM
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I herniated L4/L5 when I was 17. Neurosurgeon recommended surgery after physical therapy was unsuccessful. Knowing how iffy back surgery is I declined. Every once in a while I'll tweak my back again doing something stupid and have to take some time off, but the biggest thing that helped me get back into everything was a chiropractor. I wasn't fully able to participate in the sports I typically do for a year or two after my initial injury, but today at 22 I can do almost everything I could before except heavy deadlifting.
On days when my back tightens up, I find a long walk at a any pace helps loosen things back up enough to get active again. The more active I am the less pain I have. Sitting down for long periods of time causes more pain than anything else.
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HIGHER_CLIMBER
Mar 16, 2009, 9:07 PM
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Inversion tables!!! Seriously, get an inversion table. I have been using one for over 2 years. I work at a back pain healing place. The inversion table gives you the best results. 7-10 minutes each use, once or twice a day. It might take you a week to be able to stay on it for 7 minutes. DO NOT go all the way upside down, you're doing more harm than good. You may have some pressure build up in your head, but you'll get used to it. It may take a few weeks to see some benefits. I only adivse against inversion if you have severely compressed disks. The inversion part is good, but the compression when you get up may be too much for you. In that case, see your doctor.
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abe_ascends
Mar 16, 2009, 10:12 PM
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I had L 4/5 and L5/S1 together. Could barely move for months on end. Lots of physio and massage in addition to a cortisone shot got me well. That, and time.
To the OP: Take it easy. Keep active, but don't overdo it, or you'll make things worse, which could result in more climbing time lost. Avoid anything that aggravates the pain. Lots of stretching is key. Cobra, pigeon pose, and hamstring stretches helped me regain much of my range of movement and reduce the pain and inflammation from the sciatica.
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HIGHER_CLIMBER
Mar 16, 2009, 11:03 PM
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onceahardman wrote: In reply to: You may have some pressure build up in your head, but you'll get used to it. Unless you stroke out from increased intracranial pressure. 
That's pretty extreme, but I guess it's possible.
Many of my customers have been to many doctors, surgeons, chiropractors, accupuncturist, etc. and didn't see any results. The two months you spoke of came and went years ago, and the pain is still there. The majority of my customer saw an improvement within weeks of using the inversion table. It could of been the table, or maybe it was because they 'expected' it to work. An inversion table is a cheap way of seeing if something could work. You can't exactly return back surgery.
I'm only speaking from my experience. Take it with a grain of salt if you'd like. There's a lot of information contradicting what any professional, or non-professional can say about back pain. Do whatever works best for you, and try to stay positive.
Back to the increased intracranial pressure. How common is it? Do you have any info relating inversion and increased intracranial pressure? I'm not trying to contradict you, I'm just curious to read up about it for my customers.
(This post was edited by HIGHER_CLIMBER on Mar 16, 2009, 11:04 PM)
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RolonRolon
Mar 20, 2009, 8:46 PM
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Just found out I have a bulging disk (a less server herniation). Most likely because of really, really bad stretching and intense bouldering for about 4 months. Going into an Orotho guy on Thursday and we'll see what I have to do. I'm hoping its just physical therapy but I want it to heal quick.
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coolcat83
Mar 20, 2009, 9:19 PM
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HIGHER_CLIMBER wrote: onceahardman wrote: In reply to: You may have some pressure build up in your head, but you'll get used to it. Unless you stroke out from increased intracranial pressure. That's pretty extreme, but I guess it's possible. Many of my customers have been to many doctors, surgeons, chiropractors, accupuncturist, etc. and didn't see any results. The two months you spoke of came and went years ago, and the pain is still there. The majority of my customer saw an improvement within weeks of using the inversion table. It could of been the table, or maybe it was because they 'expected' it to work. An inversion table is a cheap way of seeing if something could work. You can't exactly return back surgery. I'm only speaking from my experience. Take it with a grain of salt if you'd like. There's a lot of information contradicting what any professional, or non-professional can say about back pain. Do whatever works best for you, and try to stay positive. Back to the increased intracranial pressure. How common is it? Do you have any info relating inversion and increased intracranial pressure? I'm not trying to contradict you, I'm just curious to read up about it for my customers.
funny OAHM posted that, that's the first thing I thought. how common is it? well if you are on a planet with gravity then pretty much 100% of the time you are going to have some increased ICP, even if it's only temporary till things adjust, you have to think there are 3 things in the skull (the skull can't increase in volume), the brain, the blood and the cerebrospinal fluid, these are all things that can't practically be compressed, so if you increase one of them the other has to change, if it's your brain volume you have a problem. will it kill someone being on a inversion table? most of the time no, but there's always that chance. If you had someone with a history of hemorrhagic stroke, on blood thinners, or other vascular issues i'm not sure i'd want to change how their body is used to having pressures distributed.
(This post was edited by coolcat83 on Mar 20, 2009, 9:23 PM)
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HIGHER_CLIMBER
Mar 22, 2009, 12:42 AM
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Your doctor may tell you to have the disk shaved. That's pretty common in my experience. You should give the inversion table a shot. Most companies give you a money back guarantee with them. Try it out for a couple of months, adn see if it works.
I did more research on the pressure build up in the head. It's very, very uncommon to have an injury result from it when using an inversion table. You'll probably have better chances winning the lottery.
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Bolter
Mar 22, 2009, 1:06 AM
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Back pain sux!!
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Hammertoes
Mar 29, 2009, 7:29 AM
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sidewedge,
The name is appropriate for the injury. What orthopedic surgeons and chiropractors know is that when you surgically remove the laminae it can lead to instability of the spinal segments above and below the injured segment. Eventually, the segments below will blow out. Lucky for you cartilage heals and if the herniation isn't what is called a 'frank' herniation a good chiropractor should be able to help you recover. I am very concerned when I hear you have sciatic pain as well as back pain, that usually means a long slow recovery and means you could still end up under the surgeon's knife. Is that a guarantee, no! Stop climbing now and get to the doc.. you have the rest of your life if you treat this with the proper respect.
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sidewedge
Mar 29, 2009, 3:21 PM
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Thanks everyone for replying, and I figured I'd post a quick update. So after the first herniation a couple years ago I was resigned to spending months in physio and then going under the knife again, but this time around has been a totally different story. I took it fairly easy in the second half of January and most of February...no biking, only a little top-roping in the gym, no running etc. I went on the trip to Red Rocks for 10 days at the end of February and it worked out way better than I expected. I took two days off to give my back a chance to rest and climbed well under my ability level. I felt good climbing, but did discover that carrying a full trad rack was a little less than pleasant. The plane ride (lots of sitting) was worse than the climbing! I'm well on my way to full recovery as we speak, so there's hope for other repeat herniaters out there! Still waiting on MRI results (ah, socialized health care), but in the end it actually looks like L4/L5 and L5/S1 were herniated. I'm definitely of the opinion that staying active actually decreased my healing time and has made recovery and re-entry into an active lifestyle way easier.
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RolonRolon
Apr 3, 2009, 4:31 PM
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I'll give my quick update too. It turns out I had the full on herniated disk and not just a buldger like I thought. Doc rec'd surgery (no self-respecting doctor wouldn't) but am first going to try the cordozon shot and see if that fixes me up.
Anybody know how long it takes the shot to start working?
One more quick question; I'm in a pretty serious amount of pain. I find it quite tough to just get out of bed but everybody says the best thing to do is stay active. I'm willing to go through the pain if it leads to faster recover but after I took a run the other day, it hurt WAY more the next days so I'm hestitant to do anything more. How long should I aim to be active for? 4 or 5 hours a day? Because these last 3 or 4 days I've been in bed a good 22 hours a day...which sucks.
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reno
Apr 3, 2009, 4:35 PM
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RolonRolon wrote: I'll give my quick update too. It turns out I had the full on herniated disk and not just a buldger like I thought. Doc rec'd surgery (no self-respecting doctor wouldn't)
Mine. My ex saw the same neurosurgeon I did, and he told her "You don't need surgery. We can fix this with some medication, some physical therapy, and perhaps an epidural injection."
In reply to: but am first going to try the cordozon shot and see if that fixes me up.
Cortisone?
In reply to: Anybody know how long it takes the shot to start working?
Two weeks, max.
In reply to: One more quick question; I'm in a pretty serious amount of pain. I find it quite tough to just get out of bed but everybody says the best thing to do is stay active. I'm willing to go through the pain if it leads to faster recover but after I took a run the other day, it hurt WAY more the next days so I'm hestitant to do anything more. How long should I aim to be active for? 4 or 5 hours a day?
If you're in serious pain, get some pain pills. Pain slows healing, and taking prescribed pain killers in a careful manner shouldn't get you hooked or addicted or anything. Personally, I found Ultracet to work well for MY pain.
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RolonRolon
Apr 3, 2009, 5:00 PM
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Thanks for the informative reply. I've just been taking ibprofen so far but am going to pick up some vicodin later today.
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reno
Apr 3, 2009, 5:13 PM
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Other thing to think about:
Watch your posture. Carefully. Like a hawk. No slouching, laying at strange angles, walking stooped over... maintain the best posture possible. Head up, shoulders squared and back, etc.
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iron106
Apr 3, 2009, 6:07 PM
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Pain pill just made it worse from me. I was able to slouch more, sleep in incorrect positions all night, walk incorrectly and it did not hurt. Just watch the pain meds. A little can go a long way.
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sspssp
Apr 3, 2009, 6:23 PM
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sidewedge wrote: The plane ride (lots of sitting) was worse than the climbing! ... I'm definitely of the opinion that staying active actually decreased my healing time and has made recovery and re-entry into an active lifestyle way easier.
Yea, I've back problems including sciatic nerve pain.
I will only fly if I can book my ticket in advance and be gauranteed an aisle seat (although these days nothing is really assured with flying) so I don't get trapped into sitting for a long period.
Staying active helps if you are in good enough shape to stay active (I have had times where walking to the kitchen was a struggle).
Climbing keeps the back/stomach muscles stronger, also.
(This post was edited by sspssp on Apr 3, 2009, 6:23 PM)
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sidewedge
Apr 3, 2009, 6:31 PM
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I was using "active" fairly generally...I just meant not being in bed. I definitely never went running (oh, the impact!) or biking (bad position), and tried not to sit too often. I would stand a lot and focus on contracting my deep abs to help support my back, and then lie down for a bit in the afternoon. There were days where getting out of bed was out of the question, but I tried to limit those and get out for at least short walks all the other days. It may not have been a run, but at least by walking I was out of bed & reminding my muscles they had work to do!
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onceahardman
Apr 3, 2009, 9:33 PM
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reno wrote: Other thing to think about: Watch your posture. Carefully. Like a hawk. No slouching, laying at strange angles, walking stooped over... maintain the best posture possible. Head up, shoulders squared and back, etc.
As simple as this sounds, It is absolutely correct, and well stated. Both for treatment, and prevention.
Most bulging/herniated disks bulge posteriorly or posterio-laterally. Repeated lumbar extension (backward bending) is often very effective. Very acute cases might need to start lying prone ( this means on your stomach) perhaps even over a pillow, and slowly prgressing to more extension as symptoms improve.
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