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charlie53
Nov 22, 2002, 3:41 PM
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Over the past year or two I have progressively been placing more cams and less passive gear. I always set a multi-directional anchor at the start of a pitch and for this I use cams, hexes and nuts. When climbing however, I have almost gotten to the point where I place only cams. Is it just me or is passive pro on the way out?
Charlie
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mother_sheep
Nov 22, 2002, 4:29 PM
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I hope not. I've only lead a few trad routes and found that the placement of my nuts were right on, whereas the placement of my cams were questionable. In time this will change. However, nuts are cheaper and although passive, I find them to be VERY secure. I can't imagine that passive pro is on the outs.
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micronut
Nov 22, 2002, 4:38 PM
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Passive pro will never go out because.....
1) sometimes it's the only thing that will work... 2) it's way cheaper and lighter to carry (and leave) on long routes..3) a bomb nut feels so good, so sexy....yeah baby!
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climber_andy
Nov 22, 2002, 4:40 PM
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This is one of those wars... er, debates, that will never get a clean answer because there isn't one.
But I'm going to thrown in my two cents anyways.
I've found that I tend to use my cams a lot more when I'm leading at my limit, because they're fast and easy to place when you just want to keep moving and/or are sketched. If I have a decent stance to pause for a second though, I prefer to put in passive pro. In particular when I know there is a hard move coming up. I just find a good passive placement comes easier than a cam placement that I'm happy with, and they're awesome!
But again, everyone has their opinion about this, and someone else will post the opposite view I'm sure. I'm too lazy to find the link, but take a look at the debate about "To hex or not to hex". IIRC, it's mostly about cams vs hexes.
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pbcowboy77
Nov 22, 2002, 5:04 PM
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For me it all depends on where I'm climbing. If I'm at J-tree it's cams, that place is so hard to find a bomber nut placement. On the other hand if I'm at Tahquitz or Suicide I'll try to do routes with nuts only. So for me I love nuts but there are only so many places where you can place them.
-Zac
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danielb
Nov 22, 2002, 5:07 PM
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I think it depends where you are climbing some areas/rock types lend them selfs more to passive or active pro than other areas.
I'm finding I place allot nuts and tricams atm cause they just feel bomber while friends can be questionable...
Did any of that make any sense?
Daniel
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tradclimber2
Nov 22, 2002, 7:16 PM
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I am doing just the reverse. I am taking more passive pro on climbs and less cams. I try and use the cams mainly for anchors and set the nuts, tricams, hexes on lead. I am doing this to get more proficient at placing passive pro - primary reason is to cut down on weight AND as was already said, there are MANY times passive pro works and cams don't. As usual, practice makes perfect (or closer).
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tradguy
Nov 22, 2002, 9:02 PM
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I watch for good passive placements. When I'm climbing, I'm usually anticipating where I'm going to find a nice stance or a good spot for gear, and I automatically keep an eye out for the passive placements. If I see one that's obvious, I go for it. If I don't see an obvious one, I'll often go for a cam, just so I'm not wasting time and energy, unless I have a really nice comfortable stance, in which case I will take a little extra time to find a reasonable passive placement that might not have been so obvious at first glance.
[ This Message was edited by: tradguy on 2002-11-22 13:03 ]
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offwidth
Nov 22, 2002, 9:08 PM
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It's just you. Passive pro is not on its way out.
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timpanogos
Nov 22, 2002, 9:19 PM
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take a full 50 meter pitch, throw in the gear needed for the lower and upper anchors around this pitch - and you better have your fair share of passive pro in, or you sure have lots of doubled/tripled/quad up cams.
CaChing on the wallet and the back.
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krustyklimber
Nov 22, 2002, 9:54 PM
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It's just you...
Place what feels good where you place it.
As you progress as a climber you tend to move more quickly on a route, this make placing passive gear seem slow and your confidence in active gear is more enhanced as well, you may go back the other way as your placement of passive gear becomes more intuitive. You may not, most climbers tendencies are driven by their wallets, mine is more of a passive wallet (cams are to pricy for granite climbing, when passive works good for me).
Jeff
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beyond_gravity
Nov 22, 2002, 10:12 PM
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Someone here told me that I dont need cams and to learn to place passive pro first.
F*CK YOU BITCH!
I climbed on a rack of cams the other day and i'm pissed that I spent $75 on hex's...it's trade all my hexs for 2 Friends! Idiots!
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dig_scott
Nov 22, 2002, 10:20 PM
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you fag!!
this so called idiot told you to buy passive as your first gear? (give him a beer.)
lets go out and spend 500 bucks on a set of cams and not like trad. hmm. theres a thought for ya.
or lets go and spend 75 on passive and love trad. now keep that passive since you will need it more than its share, and buy some cams.
now whos the idiot?? lets start a poll...
who DOESN'T use passive??
i do.
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micronut
Nov 22, 2002, 10:52 PM
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sometimes I can grab the end loop of a wire, reach up, and slot that baby in bomb proof placements. Can't do that with a cam. Also, I place nuts to save my sexy small cams for the crux sections. Then, when it gets hard, screw the nut, just stick a cam in it and forget about it.
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drector
Nov 23, 2002, 12:02 AM
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I always look for a nut placement first. If none is around then I use a cam. This saves them for when I'm pumped and at the crux and don't have time to fiddle with a nut or when there is no nut placement. I do this because I have lots of nuts and only one set of cams.
Dave
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winkwinklambonini
Nov 23, 2002, 12:16 AM
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Stoppers are easy to place.
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winkwinklambonini
Nov 23, 2002, 12:16 AM
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Stoppers are easy to place.
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pbjosh
Nov 23, 2002, 12:32 AM
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They both certainly have their place and I wouldn't head up a hard pitch or long route with some of each. I personally don't carry hexes most of the time but I don't think they suck, I just don't carry them so much. But part of that is that when you're faced with a hand or fist crack it's usually either easy enough that I'll run it out or if it's really hard I don't want to dork with a hex. I'm definitely faster with stoppers than hexes and there are a lot more stopper placements out there than anything else, IMHO.
josh
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shiloj
Nov 23, 2002, 2:00 AM
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hey dig_scott...you sound like a real creep calling someone 'fag'. believe it or not, you are contributing to the hatred that sees gay people beat up, persecuted, and murdered.
cams or stoppers? cams when i'm at my limit and pumped: pro and go. stoppers on moderates or when the placement is beautiful and aesthetic. hexes (cowbells) never.
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tenn_dawg
Nov 23, 2002, 2:58 AM
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Okay, you started it so I've got something to say.
The term FAG used in the previous situation was a figure of speech! If I ,for example, called someone a "bitch", I would not be refering to them as a female dog, the same is true for Asshole. Unless, the person in question beared an uncanny resemblence to the aformentioned part of the anatomy then it too is a figure of speech.
Lighten up, we are living in the real world here, and occationally you hear things said. It is part of life. You are looking just a little too much into this.
Dont take this post offensively, it is not an attack on you. You simply expressed your unsolicited opinion, so I expressed mine.
Travis
[ This Message was edited by: tenn_dawg on 2002-11-22 19:00 ]
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shiloj
Nov 23, 2002, 4:28 AM
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are you trying to tell me calling someone a 'fag' is not negative because its a 'figure of speech' used as a joke, and therefore alright? bullshit.
ok...lets see if i understand you its ok to use 'figures of speech' such as kike, retard, nigger, yank, etc...as long as people know we are 'just joking' and not really meaning to be small-minded and obnoxious?
yes it is the real world, a world where words have very powerful meanings and associations. casually calling someone a 'fag' is a long way from yelling 'die fag' as you put your fist in their face, but it still contributes to an attitude of intolerance and hatred.
am i being unreasonable? should i 'chill out'? maybe think about how a gay person feels when they hear the word 'fag' being used as an insult...and try to tell me its an acceptable 'figure of speech.'
to me, if you talk like a small-minded creep, you probably are.
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camhead
Nov 23, 2002, 4:42 AM
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uhhh... shut up bedwetter.
I am not that proficient with stoppers, and I don't climb that much trad that is not at my limit.
CAMS BAY CAMS!!!!
I am the camhead, and the camhead has spoken.
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beyond_gravity
Nov 23, 2002, 4:50 AM
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Ok, my first post was a bit harsh, as I do appriciate the information I get here, and i'm sorry for that.
However I am mad, and I feel I got BAD information. Of course I use nuts, every trad climbs needs nuts! i'm talking about hex's here...but hex's were deffinatly a waste of my money scinse i'm going to buy cams anyways. also a beginner wont have the skill, stregth, or mentalitly to hang out and spend 5 mins fiddling with a hex. If anything hex's should be used by advanced climbers only.
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camhead
Nov 23, 2002, 5:01 AM
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Jeremy, remember that hexes are good for setting up belay anchors. They do have their place. I just think that the "begin with passive" approach is bunk.
That said, I've got a set of hexes that I haven't used for well over a year.
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cologman
Nov 23, 2002, 5:14 AM
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Being definitely old school I find myself going back to tried and true pro. Stoppers, even hexes are always in my bag of tricks.
Sure I always have a rack of cams but if I'm on a long rte and I question the amount of pro I'll need you can bet I be carrying a bunch of the "OLD" stuff.
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