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rocknice2
Apr 27, 2009, 2:49 PM
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How many climber's permission did you require before you took the sharp end?
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kennoyce
Apr 27, 2009, 3:01 PM
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Just get a partner who knows what they are doing, grow a pair, and lead. I have never mock lead, and I bet the majority of climbers haven't either.
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markc
Apr 27, 2009, 5:23 PM
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rocknice2 wrote: How many climber's permission did you require before you took the sharp end?
Permission? None. Input? A couple.
If we're talking sport, the main things are shortly taught. So long as someone knows how to clip properly and finish off a route, no big deal.
For traditional climbing, I primarily followed one person, and had another guy check my work during some sessions on the ground. Did a couple easy routes, mocked then led a slightly harder climb, then moved to multipitch.
That said, we all come at this differently. Most people I climb with picked up climbing informally. These days, it seems like a good number come at it through the gym or by other formal means. How you start may very well impact if you feel like you have to run permission through the proper channels.
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robbovius
Apr 27, 2009, 5:34 PM
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angry wrote: kennoyce wrote: Just get a partner who knows what they are doing, grow a pair, and lead. I have never mock lead, and I bet the majority of climbers haven't either. I've made a mockery of a lead before, if that counts.
And I've been mocked on lead, so, umm there you are.
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currupt4130
Apr 27, 2009, 5:45 PM
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no_email_entered wrote: PigsOnDrugs wrote: i have just started to Mach lead climb and im wondering how long i should practice on this method until i should move on to real lead climbing after all of the critical classes of course  [image]http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk218/no_email_entered/speed.jpg[/image]
NOE FTW!!!!11111
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ladyscarlett
Apr 27, 2009, 7:15 PM
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rocknice2 wrote: How many climber's permission did you require before you took the sharp end?
Personally, I needed two, both of my buddies, because I was using their gear and rope, sooo, getting permission was good. Also good to get their belay....heh.
As a beginner myself, I don't have the experience as others. However, the transition from following to lead is very close as I am going through it right now.
To the OP, as previously stated, most of leading is in the head. Mock leading can be a safe way to practice the logistics (hauling a rope, clipping, placing pro, etc) but it takes out the biggest and most influential factor, your head. Like training wheels, I think mock leading could become a crutch. For me, I know it would, which is why I will never do it. Leading something lower will probably give you a better feel for leading and put your head in the right place. It can be different on the sharp end.
Also, on a whole, the idea of "you'll know when you're ready" is correct. The exception, in my case, was when my buddy told me "you're ready." I gave it a good think and realized he was right.. A case where my climbing buddies knew before me. Your buddies can be there for you, and not just on the belay or the handy beer.
Have fun!
ls
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rodion
Apr 27, 2009, 7:43 PM
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jt512 wrote: About as long as you "mach-spell." Jay
Nice. I like to mach-spell to warm up for my land-speed record spelling bees. It's kind of a niche sport, but I'm pretty into it.
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jt512
Apr 27, 2009, 8:24 PM
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rodion wrote: jt512 wrote: About as long as you "mach-spell." Jay Nice.
I liked it, too, but all it's gotten are three one-star votes. Sheesh. I was just maching the guy.
Jay
(This post was edited by jt512 on Apr 27, 2009, 8:24 PM)
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bill413
Apr 27, 2009, 8:27 PM
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rodion wrote: jt512 wrote: About as long as you "mach-spell." Jay Nice. I like to mach-spell to warm up for my land-speed record spelling bees. It's kind of a niche sport, but I'm pretty into it.
Oh, I thought it was
mach-sandwich, mach-fish, mach-muffin...
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aerili
Apr 28, 2009, 12:55 AM
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jt512 wrote: rodion wrote: jt512 wrote: About as long as you "mach-spell." Jay Nice. I liked it, too, but all it's gotten are three one-star votes. Sheesh. I was just maching the guy. Jay
Actually, I gave you your first vote of 5 stars, so I'm having a hard time figuring out how 2 more votes got it down to 1 star. Does rc use the mode method of averaging stars???
[insert related witty mach joke I can't think of right now here]
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jt512
Apr 28, 2009, 1:06 AM
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aerili wrote: jt512 wrote: rodion wrote: jt512 wrote: About as long as you "mach-spell." Jay Nice. I liked it, too, but all it's gotten are three one-star votes. Sheesh. I was just maching the guy. Jay Actually, I gave you your first vote of 5 stars, so I'm having a hard time figuring out how 2 more votes got it down to 1 star. Does rc use the mode method of averaging stars???
It looks like the average isn't being calculated correctly. My second post had received one vote: 5 stars. Now it shows 3 votes, but the average is shown as 1 star. So the reported "average" is either the mode, some custom "average" that the admins have concocted, or the function is just fucked up.
Jay
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aerili
Apr 28, 2009, 1:14 AM
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jt512 wrote: So the reported "average" is either the mode, some custom "average" that the admins have concocted, or the function is just fucked up.
Maybe there are bugs in the system. For instance, my profile pics suddenly got messed up out of the blue: my avatar at this moment shows a pic that hasn't been approved or posted by the site yet and which you won't see on my profile.
Then, my profile page is suddenly telling me in the upper left hand corner to "upload a profile pic" from my computer hard drive, even though I already had one there for some time and I've never seen that kind of option before.
I tried looking at my profile pic/avatar option in the edit menu to re-establish the right one, but it tells me it's empty, which is certainly not true.
I think rc.com must have caught the swine flu!
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jsj7051
Apr 28, 2009, 2:11 AM
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markc wrote: bill413 wrote: Let me amend my previous... If you don't feel confident - lead a few lower level climbs. If you do, and your mentor / critic gives you good feedback, go for it. I think mock leading is an OK thing for one or two climbs - but after that it actually inhibits you. You need to get off toprope to lead. I'm in agreement with this. For learning to lead, I suggest seconding for a while, paying close attention to how the individual pieces are placed, when and why things are extended, and studying the overall system. Next, i suggest a combination of reading and ground school, where you're placing a good bit of gear at ground level, building anchors, etc. I didn't do it, but some suggest aiding a few routes. To get a feel for placing pro from a stance, I carried and plugged gear on one toproped climb. Later that day, I led an easier route, then repeated the line I had toproped earlier. I don't think mock leading any more than that would be useful. Truth be told, I can't say doing it once was incredibly useful. Doing it any more would have been counterproductive. It's a fairly old school mindset, but I like the idea of dialing back technical difficulty while you get mileage. For early traditional climbs, I wanted placements, the protection system, and ropework to be my focus. That meant I needed to be climbing at a comfortable grade. By the time I was having nervous moments and taking falls on lead, I was confident in my systems. Some of the best advice I've heard is not to push your technical and placement abilities at one time.
I like this one.
Heres the short version - Once!
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caliclimbergrl
Apr 28, 2009, 4:08 AM
Post #44 of 92
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It's up to you -- whenever you feel comfortable. But I never did a mock lead. And most of my partners never did either. As long as you know what you're doing, I don't really see the point.
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angry
Apr 28, 2009, 4:40 AM
Post #45 of 92
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jt512 wrote: aerili wrote: jt512 wrote: rodion wrote: jt512 wrote: About as long as you "mach-spell." Jay Nice. I liked it, too, but all it's gotten are three one-star votes. Sheesh. I was just maching the guy. Jay Actually, I gave you your first vote of 5 stars, so I'm having a hard time figuring out how 2 more votes got it down to 1 star. Does rc use the mode method of averaging stars??? It looks like the average isn't being calculated correctly. My second post had received one vote: 5 stars. Now it shows 3 votes, but the average is shown as 1 star. So the reported "average" is either the mode, some custom "average" that the admins have concocted, or the function is just fucked up. Jay
I gave you 5 stars to see if it would change anything, it didn't. The math is fuzzy.
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steple
Apr 28, 2009, 4:45 AM
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If you think you understand what you are doing and if an experienced climbers confirms this, do some real leads. Then practice falling. If you climb at a gym, get the first 2 or 3 clips, then climb to the next clip and take fall. Climb back up, get the clip, climb to the next clip and take a fall, and so on.
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mushroom
Apr 28, 2009, 5:19 AM
Post #47 of 92
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mock leading is stupid and lame and I never did it once. You'd best quit now before the lameness of such a wussy way of learning seeps in to your psyche and you become accustomed to the wanker ascent method of being able to bail and fall on a top rope. You'll never pull hard on trad. might as well start clipping bolts, eh?
Like seriously, wtf? learn to down climb, it's fucking crucial and will keep your ass safe one day. And lead easier shit if you are that scared.
and I never took a class either. In fact, I led before I ever followed if I remember right.
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fresh
Apr 28, 2009, 2:24 PM
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maybe outliers are discarded? and your own vote doesn't affect the average?
probably not since I've seen my own votes change averages.
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nhgill
Apr 28, 2009, 2:28 PM
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as far as "how long" should you mock lead? I would say a rope length is a good max.
On a side note, I am one of those people who started climbing in the gym over the winter. I found that doing a couple of mock leads helped teach me efficient stances while clipping and some rope management. Of course I only did it a few times then the ice melted off and I was outside learning triad... So I'll echo what others have said, just get out there and do it. Just a beginners perspective
-HTG
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Alphaboth
Apr 28, 2009, 2:38 PM
Post #50 of 92
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Mock leading is a perfectly natural progression toward leading, don't let people here tell you it's a waste of time. Mock leading forces you to slow down and think about protection, and sometimes it takes more energy to stop and place gear, obviously. Mock leading lets you practice this in a lesser stress environment. Mock lead untill you feel solid and the gear is good.
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