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reno
Jan 16, 2010, 2:41 AM
Post #26 of 38
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Registered: Oct 30, 2001
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k.l.k wrote: I can count one in which someone was killed by their gear sling.
Including this, I know of two, but your point is well made, and duly noted.
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markc
Jan 16, 2010, 2:48 AM
Post #27 of 38
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Registered: Jan 21, 2003
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k.l.k wrote: I'd much rather take my chances with the freakishly low chance of getting killed by my gear sling, than with the much greater chance that a 'breakaway" sling would pick a bad moment to dump all the gear.
My thought exactly. Having a rip-away gear sling would cause more problems than it would solve. Unless you're keeping it to single pitches, the loss of the rack could cripple a team. What if you no longer have enough gear to safely ascend or descend?
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kobaz
Jan 16, 2010, 4:14 AM
Post #28 of 38
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markc wrote: the loss of the rack could cripple a team. What if you no longer have enough gear to safely ascend or descend?
I've read/heard of several accounts of someone dropping the gear sling while handing it to their partner.
Whooops. there goes the rack.
I can hand off two dozen cams to my partner pretty quickly and while making sure he has a grip on the piece before I let go. Even better is agreeing on a racking system before hand and just putting the gear on your partners harness yourself. It's speedy, and if you drop something, well... is one thing, not your entire rack.
I despise gear slings for anything other than hanging your gear up in a closet, or wearing your gear on approach/descent sans backpack... way more comfy than carrying it on your harness
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tomcat
Jan 17, 2010, 1:04 PM
Post #30 of 38
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Registered: Sep 15, 2006
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I use a BD big wall sling with all the do-dads cut off.It's just a gear sling for both sides,with a small pouch on my back for a topo or tp,and a fastex buckle to join the front.Buckle would break in this type of situation.
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livinonasandbar
Jan 17, 2010, 3:48 PM
Post #31 of 38
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Registered: May 3, 2003
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kobaz wrote: Very very sad. Condolences to family and friends. The reported signs of trauma at her neck are frightening. Her whole body weight apparently supported by a sling on/around her neck? If that is what happened, this isn't the first time that a death has occurred from being strangled by one's own gear sling. I distinctly remember an accident at eldorado canyon under the same circumstances.
It just occurred to me, although I'm not sure anyone would bother with it, that in order to guard against such an accidental choking from a hung-up gear sling, perhaps a short tether or leash between the the bottom of the gear sling (under your arm) and the waist loop of your harness would prevent the sling from being pulled upward sufficiently to choke you. An upward pull would be transferred to and limited by your leg loop and crotch, rather than your arm being jerked upward and the sling cinching around your neck...
Does this make sense to anyone?
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markc
Jan 17, 2010, 7:18 PM
Post #32 of 38
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I briefly thought of something like that. There was a tech tip a few years ago to keep the rack from swinging forward on the descent. You clip a sling to the front of your rack, and clip the other end to a gear loop on your harness. When climbing, I fear that a similar type of tether anywhere on the gear sling would reduce your ability to swing the rack around as needed. With such a rare issue, I'd want to make sure preventative measures aren't causing their own problems.
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dingus
Jan 18, 2010, 2:08 AM
Post #33 of 38
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Registered: Dec 16, 2002
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livinonasandbar wrote: kobaz wrote: Very very sad. Condolences to family and friends. The reported signs of trauma at her neck are frightening. Her whole body weight apparently supported by a sling on/around her neck? If that is what happened, this isn't the first time that a death has occurred from being strangled by one's own gear sling. I distinctly remember an accident at eldorado canyon under the same circumstances. It just occurred to me, although I'm not sure anyone would bother with it, that in order to guard against such an accidental choking from a hung-up gear sling, perhaps a short tether or leash between the the bottom of the gear sling (under your arm) and the waist loop of your harness would prevent the sling from being pulled upward sufficiently to choke you. An upward pull would be transferred to and limited by your leg loop and crotch, rather than your arm being jerked upward and the sling cinching around your neck... Does this make sense to anyone?
I still think this is making a big issue out of what is % wise a freak (and incredibly sad) occurrence. The very utility of a good shoulder gear sling is its mobility and the ability to 'sling' it out of the way - behind the back, over to the left, drop and drag in a chimney, etc. You know those Metolius gear slings with the gear loops? I detest those things as they eliminate those very capabilities. I think a lot of sling haters have never seen one built and used properly, but to each their own of course.
DMT
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livinonasandbar
Jan 18, 2010, 2:17 AM
Post #34 of 38
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Registered: May 3, 2003
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Good point, Dingus... I was actually thinking of the Metolius type of sling.
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dugl33
Jan 18, 2010, 5:38 AM
Post #35 of 38
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Registered: Oct 6, 2009
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This is a very tragic and freaky accident. I've used a gear sling for years, and this is not something I've ever considered a risk in this way.
With regards to sling styles, would a full chest style sling still be subject to this risk? I know its a pretty overkill rig for most stuff, but I also don't readily picture it being capable of strangling a person.
Edit to add: Looks like yates has a light version of the same style...
(This post was edited by dugl33 on Jan 18, 2010, 5:47 AM)
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josephgdawson
Jan 18, 2010, 7:24 AM
Post #36 of 38
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Registered: Jan 20, 2004
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This is just a terrible story and my heart goes out to all involved. It seems like a freak accident.
I have half-worried about what would happen to me during a fall if a cam snagged something. I rack evreything on my harness, and I figure it would probably (hopefully) break the gear loop rather than my back. Cams do have a tendency to catch on things when you don't want them to and to not fit in things when you do want them to.
I avoid putting even regular slings around my neck because I worry about them getting caught on something. The thought occurred to me I was while I was on TR monkeying around in a chimney with a sling around my neck while it was clipped into a cam. I thought, if i slip here while this thing is around my neck I could have a real problem considering the climbing rope is going to stretch.
These are just my musings and not meant as a critique. This is one of the few accident reports I have read where poor judgement does not seem to have played a factor.
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k.l.k
Jan 18, 2010, 5:30 PM
Post #37 of 38
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Registered: May 9, 2007
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kobaz wrote: I despise gear slings for anything other than hanging your gear up in a closet, or wearing your gear on approach/descent sans backpack...
Then you should start a thread about how much you hate gear slings. And select routes that don't have wide cracks or narrow chimneys.
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k.l.k
Jan 18, 2010, 5:37 PM
Post #38 of 38
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Registered: May 9, 2007
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josephgdawson wrote: I have half-worried about what would happen to me during a fall if a cam snagged something. I rack evreything on my harness, and I figure it would probably (hopefully) break the gear loop rather than my back. . . ..I avoid putting even regular slings around my neck because I worry about them getting caught on something.
If the cam on yr harness gear loop catches during a fall, it'll probably hold long enough to flip you upside down so that your head hits the rock first, rather than your ankle.
Honestly, there are a zillion other things more serious to worry about, if you're worrying about stuff.
And yes, you're smart to avoid carrying slings of any sort just around your neck. I can remember even the older editions of FOTH specifically warning against that practice.
I've never done Obelisk, but have always had it in the back of my mind, for something later in the career. Pretty summit, fairly remote. This accident has really changed the way it looks to me now, even in photos.
RIP
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