R-Fall is likely to cause serious injury, but you probably won't die.
X-Don't fall, because if you do it's likely you'll never get up again.
PG-It's possible you could get a minor injury if you fall.

Minor to me is anything less than broken bones and torn ligaments. I don't see any route that you couldn't possibly get a minor injury on while leading, it's the nature of the game. So why have the rating, it seems superfluous to me.

If it weren't there then I wouldn't feel the need to use it, thus problem solved. Remove the temptation to say that a 15 ft. elbow scraper needs to be distinguished from a 4 ft. elbow scraper.

Actually, most interpreters of those criteria only apply the ideas of R, X, and PG13 to cruxes (or cruxy sections). I can think of plenty of 511-12 routes that have sections of R or even X up to 5.8, which are nonetheless viewed as G-rated climbs.

I suppose you could also get rope burn from a clean overhanging fall. Best mark those routes PG-13 also.

what are we gunna do about burnz calling a route he TR'd pg13.

what are we gunna do about burnz calling a route he TR'd pg13..

also along Lena's point.. you can't downgrade a route that you hangdogged up.

I'll just refer to your sig rather than repeat myself.

"GMBurns 5.11a PG13"-MP
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...His_Tights_3526.html

"GMBurns 5.11a PG13"-MP
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...His_Tights_3526.html

I have far more of an issue with someone dogging a route and then downgrading it. An experienced climber could TR a route and see that it's R rated. I still don't really know what PG-13 is... I suppose it's a route where if someone asked me how it is I'd say something along the lines of "it's heads-up for this section or that, but there's good gear"? I feel no need to assign some Sprad climbing semi-runout nonsense rating to it. ZOMG! You can't place gears every linear inch of the climb! DANGER WILL ROBINSON! DANGER!

Oh, and can I just say that I fucking hate PG-13, anyway? It's like, you think you're going to see boobs, but you never do.

But anticipation is supposed to be half the fun?

No. The Red River Gorge has arguably the most "gym-like" feel of any crag in the US. And people are still inflating the grades there.

also along Lena's point.. you can't downgrade a route that you hangdogged up.

Bastard, when I said PG ratings were superfluous I was saying get rid of them. They're dumb.

Bastard, when I said PG ratings were superfluous I was saying get rid of them. They're dumb. because most climbs, except for those that overhang with some exceptions, are "PG".

I don't like the idea of only using the R or X for the crux section. I think most people want to know if there is any runout section on the climb even if it's the 5.8 part of a 5.11 climb. Yeah, if you're going to try a 5.11 you shouldn't have any trouble with the unprotected 5.8 but shit breaks off, sometimes gravity sucks.

Hey Jake, I downgraded Man w/A Hueco as well and if it weren't for being sucked over to the hueco and botching the sequence I would have downgraded it further because I would have onsighted it. That route is way overgraded. I don't necessarily agree that it should be PG though. If you blow the second clip you could hit that boulder, depending on where you clip from. If you hit that boulder could you get a serious injury? I think you could which would put it in the R category, although it's so close to the ground I have a hard time actually believing it should go there.

Just cuz I'm tempted to use them doesn't mean I think they're not dumb.

I have known at least one person who does, but I won't name names.

Hangdogging up several times and then sending later = downgrade for him, lmao!

Bastard, when I said PG ratings were superfluous I was saying get rid of them. They're dumb. because most climbs, except for those that overhang with some exceptions, are "PG".