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thefoobar
Feb 19, 2011, 8:57 PM
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Guilty party name withheld for their own protection. And posting on another account to withhold mine. My own background: Climbing 8 years, trad, sport, bouldering. RC member for about the same time. Worked at 3 separate gyms. Been involved with many workshops on climbing and gear, and also WFA, etc. So I'm a climbing wall staff member at an all-volunteer facility. I do my part to keep things safe and friendly. But we have this one staff member in particular who seems to always try to ruin that, let's call that person 'Sue'. I've seen Sue attempt to teach things to other people with having not fully understood the process herself. She's one of the more senior members, but there are no particular positions. She tries to enforce rules on people who don't want them (ie: route colors for grade indication). Just the other day I had a confrontation with Sue. A regular gym member shows up to climb, puts his harness on and quickly Sue comes over with a slightly condescending tone saying "and do those leg loops". Confused.... I look over the guys harness and it appears okay. Everything double backed, plenty of webbing tale out of the buckles. I say "I don't see anything wrong with the harness". Sue quickly points out that the manufacturer red line for tail length is not where it should be. (It's about 2cm off). From my experience, the generally accepted minimum tail length for webbing systems (knots and buckles) is 3 inches. Her harness had about 4 inches of tail left for the leg loops and Sue was quick to nitpick. I'm pretty sure she's got a personal vendetta against me to try and battle me on any and all 'rules of climbing'. I generally follow manufacturer instructions and recommendations but as we all know there are very few 'always' and 'never's in climbing (other than always making sure that your systems are correct so you don't kill yourself or your partner, and things like that). Nitpicking about safety is one thing, which is good to a point ,especially when running a gym. The biggest thing that bothers me though is the reasons she comes up with for it. "If the harness isn't set up correctly and it breaks, then it's our fault". What? Harness breaking? This isn't Cliffhanger. I could imagine if it was soaked in battery acid, or you really tried hard to screw it up so bad that forces multiplied and caused a failure... I could see that. But a harness properly fitted and double backed with slightly less tail than the manufacturer recommendation (and not a gym harness), worn by a regular who accepts full responsibility for their own gear use.. is fine by my standards. The harness was becoming a little too small for the wearer, but according to my understanding of community standards (and my own use of the exact model harness he was wearing), everything was in order. The manufacturer tends to make the leg loops a bit small for the associated waist sizes and I have the same issue with my own harness... the red line is in about 2-3cm less than the minimum. Other staff members (even the more senior ones than her) have had problems with Sue in the past due to similar confrontations, but mostly no one cares. She belays the kids, hasn't made any safety errors that I've noticed, and most of the time doesn't cause any issue (other than that one time she had it out with a parent of a child climber who was having trouble understanding some directions). Sue was then reprimanded by the real facility staff (the people who get paid), and threatened with loss of her position, and I haven't seen that type of incident since. I can go on and on about previous little 'bouts' but I think I've written enough. Basically it's her ego versus everyone else's skills and knowledge. Most of the time it's about enforcing sometimes arbitrary rules on the masses for the sake of enforcement rather than logic, safety and reason. What to do... what to do... Edited to change subject line.
(This post was edited by thefoobar on Feb 19, 2011, 9:07 PM)
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spikeddem
Feb 19, 2011, 11:23 PM
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I guess I don't understand why you posted here about troubles you're having with a co-worker.
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vegastradguy
Feb 20, 2011, 12:54 AM
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um, talk to the owner? manager? anyone but the internetz? seriously. go talk to your supervisor. thats standard protocol for any job anywhere on earth where you have a problem with a fellow employee.
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shockabuku
Feb 20, 2011, 1:19 AM
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I would have a hard time arguing with her when she's technically correct.
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lena_chita
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Feb 20, 2011, 2:42 PM
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Sounds like she may be a difficult person to work with, but things you describe are hardly worth the rant like this. Common protocol of dealing with a co-worker is to communicate your concernt directly to him/her, minimize contact, if you just aren't good match personality-wise, and go to a manager/supervisor if the problem or concern is severe enough-- e.i. the safety is compromised. Nothing in your specific examples of what she is doing sounded like SHE was compromising safety. For example:
thefoobar wrote: She tries to enforce rules on people who don't want them (ie: route colors for grade indication). Well, if the gym has rules about color-coding different grades of climbs, and someone is setting the routes and not adhering to those rules, I can see why a staff member might want to enforce the rules... She might not be going about it the right way, and might be pissing off people, but technically she is right.
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duppyc
Feb 20, 2011, 3:00 PM
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Dude, you should probably get yourself checked out for Ausperger's Syndrome. This post is kinda nutty.
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thefoobar
Feb 20, 2011, 7:16 PM
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lena_chita wrote: Sounds like she may be a difficult person to work with, but things you describe are hardly worth the rant like this. Common protocol of dealing with a co-worker is to communicate your concernt directly to him/her, minimize contact, if you just aren't good match personality-wise, and go to a manager/supervisor if the problem or concern is severe enough-- e.i. the safety is compromised. Nothing in your specific examples of what she is doing sounded like SHE was compromising safety. For example: thefoobar wrote: She tries to enforce rules on people who don't want them (ie: route colors for grade indication). Well, if the gym has rules about color-coding different grades of climbs, and someone is setting the routes and not adhering to those rules, I can see why a staff member might want to enforce the rules... She might not be going about it the right way, and might be pissing off people, but technically she is right. Yeah... It was more of a rant than anything else. The gym does not have any rules about color coding. This particular person is trying to enforce her own rules but no one else in the gym cares. Management doesn't care, members don't care... and I don't care. I've surveyed many members and... they just don't care about colors. I've talked to the main climbing wall people (haven't talked to actual facility management though), and they write it off as I quote: 'yeah, she can be an ass sometimes'. It's more of a personality mismatch than anything else. Safety wise I haven't noticed anything terrible. Other than the other day when she was trying to teach a belay takeover, using a 10 foot long prussic.
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thefoobar
Feb 20, 2011, 7:18 PM
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shockabuku wrote: I would have a hard time arguing with her when she's technically correct. Yes she is technically correct, I agree. It's more the specific situational aspects (being condescending mainly) that are the problem.
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spikeddem
Feb 20, 2011, 7:19 PM
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I'm curious who this is now. It's someone that posts here normally, climbs trad, sport, and boulders. Has been a member since around 2003-2004. More revealingly, he/she puts effort into his/her typing and the appearance/readability of the post. We've got full line breaks, and background information. Moreover, the ellipses all have just three periods (except for one, perhaps a typo). It's possible they've been slightly overused, but not as heavily overused as we have seen from some rc kn0b'ers. We have a mix of both centimeters and inches, which doesn't help too much, but does perhaps suggest that this person has a job or studies a science related topic. In fact, the only people in the world that really mix centimeters and inches in their words are American scientists. The heat is on.
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thefoobar
Feb 20, 2011, 7:27 PM
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duppyc wrote: Dude, you should probably get yourself checked out for Ausperger's Syndrome. This post is kinda nutty. Heh. What in particular made you think of that?
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Landale
Feb 20, 2011, 7:35 PM
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Foobar, Doesn't sound too crazy right now but I would document any problem you have with this person, and be very specific, keep it in a personal file, and if becomes an on-going issue, with larger problems, you will have everything you need when you take it to the owner of the place. Good luck.
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dynosore
Feb 20, 2011, 8:11 PM
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In reply to: Confused.... I look over the guys harness and it appears okay. Everything double backed, plenty of webbing tale out of the buckles. I say "I don't see anything wrong with the harness". Sue quickly points out that the manufacturer red line for tail length is not where it should be. (It's about 2cm off). From my experience, the generally accepted minimum tail length for webbing systems (knots and buckles) is 3 inches. Her harness had about 4 inches of tail left for the leg loops and Sue was quick to nitpick. I'm pretty sure she's got a personal vendetta against me to try and battle me on any and all 'rules of climbing'. What am I missing here? Was it a girl or a dude? So confusing....
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dynosore
Feb 20, 2011, 8:14 PM
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spikeddem wrote: I'm curious who this is now. It's someone that posts here normally, climbs trad, sport, and boulders. Has been a member since around 2003-2004. More revealingly, he/she puts effort into his/her typing and the appearance/readability of the post. We've got full line breaks, and background information. Moreover, the ellipses all have just three periods (except for one, perhaps a typo). It's possible they've been slightly overused, but not as heavily overused as we have seen from some rc kn0b'ers. We have a mix of both centimeters and inches, which doesn't help too much, but does perhaps suggest that this person has a job or studies a science related topic. In fact, the only people in the world that really mix centimeters and inches in their words are American scientists. The heat is on. I resemble that. Registered in 2004, American, scientist, but I doubt I win any readibility contests as I just type what comes to mind.
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macblaze
Feb 20, 2011, 11:27 PM
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spikeddem wrote: I'm curious who this is now. It's someone that posts here normally, climbs trad, sport, and boulders. Has been a member since around 2003-2004. More revealingly, he/she puts effort into his/her typing and the appearance/readability of the post. We've got full line breaks, and background information. Moreover, the ellipses all have just three periods (except for one, perhaps a typo). It's possible they've been slightly overused, but not as heavily overused as we have seen from some rc kn0b'ers. We have a mix of both centimeters and inches, which doesn't help too much, but does perhaps suggest that this person has a job or studies a science related topic. In fact, the only people in the world that really mix centimeters and inches in their words are American scientists. The heat is on. Canadians of a certain age (mine) also quite frequently mix metric and imperial as we were forced to switch mid stream. Not a lot of Canadian cities that can support 3 gyms (although that's a bit of a leap of logic...), so let's say Vancouver or Toronto resident.
(This post was edited by macblaze on Feb 20, 2011, 11:28 PM)
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guangzhou
Feb 21, 2011, 12:57 AM
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Middle School Math teachers go back and forth between Standard and Metric too. In the case fo the original post, we have one volunteer gym staff member not happy with another volunteer gym staff member. Management seems to know about Sue and doesn't think it a big issue and gym member seem to write her off too. So, what's the issue or problem. If the management of the gym think she provides enough of a service to deal with her issues, than move on. When the gym owner or management decides she's more problem than use, they will get rid of her. You're a volunteer, you pointed out your issues tot he management, the ball is in their court. If you don't like the response, go volunteer elsewhere or don't volunteer at all. As a previous person in the outdoor industry, I am quite aware that you get what you pay for, especially with volunteers. In this case, you airing the gym dirty laundry on this forum should upset the management or gym owner much more.
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jt512
Feb 21, 2011, 4:19 AM
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spikeddem wrote: In fact, the only people in the world that really mix centimeters and inches in their words are American scientists. I don't know any American scientists who use the English system at all. I'd say that mechanics and engineers would be more likely to use both systems of measurements than scientists. Jay
(This post was edited by jt512 on Feb 21, 2011, 4:21 AM)
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spikeddem
Feb 21, 2011, 5:37 PM
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jt512 wrote: spikeddem wrote: In fact, the only people in the world that really mix centimeters and inches in their words are American scientists. I don't know any American scientists who use the English system at all. I'd say that mechanics and engineers would be more likely to use both systems of measurements than scientists. Jay They don't buy 2" x 4" 's in the lumber yard? They ask for the price of gas in dollars per liter? When dealing with everyone else in the states they don't really have much of an option. Also, for what it's worth, I was kind of lumping scientists and engineers into the same group.
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jt512
Feb 21, 2011, 5:56 PM
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spikeddem wrote: jt512 wrote: spikeddem wrote: In fact, the only people in the world that really mix centimeters and inches in their words are American scientists. I don't know any American scientists who use the English system at all. I'd say that mechanics and engineers would be more likely to use both systems of measurements than scientists. Jay They don't buy 2" x 4" 's in the lumber yard? They ask for the price of gas in dollars per liter? When dealing with everyone else in the states they don't really have much of an option. You're right.
In reply to: Also, for what it's worth, I was kind of lumping scientists and engineers into the same group. Don't tell that to a scientist. Jay
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ubu
Feb 22, 2011, 12:26 AM
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jt512 wrote: spikeddem wrote: jt512 wrote: spikeddem wrote: In fact, the only people in the world that really mix centimeters and inches in their words are American scientists. I don't know any American scientists who use the English system at all. I'd say that mechanics and engineers would be more likely to use both systems of measurements than scientists. Jay They don't buy 2" x 4" 's in the lumber yard? They ask for the price of gas in dollars per liter? When dealing with everyone else in the states they don't really have much of an option. You're right. In reply to: Also, for what it's worth, I was kind of lumping scientists and engineers into the same group. Don't tell that to a scientist. Jay Or an engineer.
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1904climber
Feb 22, 2011, 8:01 AM
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i'm an american mechanic and i am always using metric or SAE. sometimes it comes out as cm sometimes it comes out as inches. i'm not even aware that i mix them. I usually try to keep to metric when talking to import car guys and i keep to SAE when talking to american car guys. the honda, nissan, toyota car guys have no idea what i'm talking about when i say 3/8. it's usually followed by "is that a 10mm or a 12mm?" oh and for the OP, sucks you work with someone that bugs you. welcome to the club
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MasterOfKungFu
Feb 23, 2011, 6:12 AM
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OP, you may have one of those people. When you have one of those people, there is nothing you can do. NOTHING
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kinz
Feb 23, 2011, 6:52 AM
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i would tell sue to go fuck herself if i were you. not to turn this into a boldering.com discussion or anything, but in texas we get a lot of those safety nazi, gear geek, i only climb 5.7 but i'll be damned if any of my placements can't hold a truck types. people like that need to be put in there place on a regular basis until they realize that they are failures at life and give up.
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guangzhou
Feb 23, 2011, 8:12 AM
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kinz wrote: i would tell sue to go fuck herself if i were you. not to turn this into a boldering.com discussion or anything, but in texas we get a lot of those safety nazi, gear geek, i only climb 5.7 but i'll be damned if any of my placements can't hold a truck types. people like that need to be put in there place on a regular basis until they realize that they are failures at life and give up. Man, I love Texas.
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spikeddem
Feb 23, 2011, 6:17 PM
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guangzhou wrote: kinz wrote: i would tell sue to go fuck herself if i were you. not to turn this into a boldering.com discussion or anything, but in texas we get a lot of those safety nazi, gear geek, i only climb 5.7 but i'll be damned if any of my placements can't hold a truck types. people like that need to be put in there place on a regular basis until they realize that they are failures at life and give up. Man, I love Texas. A moment of silence and a facepalm for Texas.
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majid_sabet
Feb 23, 2011, 6:36 PM
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PMS
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