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slavetogravity
Mar 5, 2011, 8:25 PM
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So there's this popular boulder traverse in my home town of Vernon British Columbia. Local climbers have been running laps on this thing since the late 80's. It's in a Provincial Park which closes to vehicle traffic in winter. Because the traverse is tucked under a large over hanging the crag stays out of the rain or snow and is a welcoming spot when the conditions are less so.
The other day I'm on line and I come across this photo and I think WTF?! Do my eyes deceive me or has that place gotten trashed? I recall a time in the early 90's when I would go to the traverse and find broken glass from smashed beer bottles strewn about the rock. I'd clean it up, all the while thinking of how ignorant the drunken idiots where who made the mess.
So now is it the climbers turn to be idiots?
What's the deal with climbers having fires at the base of the boulder traverse? Given that it's under an overhang you're going to have to wait for the second
coming before time cleans up the ash, not to mention the stain on the rock above from the smoke. I don't know if having a camp fire while bouldering is now a popular thing to do, because god help us if it is. So lets forget the fact that what these goof balls did was illegal, (which it is under the BC Park Act) lets instead focus on the shitty mess these guys decided to make, and encourage others to not do the same or tolerate such activity.
Thanks for taking the time to read my rant.
Aaron Kristiansen.
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special_blend
Mar 6, 2011, 1:13 AM
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That's really shitty, man. But I have a lot of prise for you for cleaning up after people and trying to respect such an amazing place.
Climbers would do well to read up on this website and try to share it with others. It's really important that we treat these spots well
http://www.leavenotrace.ca/principles
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olderic
Mar 6, 2011, 1:30 AM
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How do you know the fire was set by climbers?
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Adk
Mar 6, 2011, 2:06 AM
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Never build a fire under an overhang if it's raining out!
I've built many fires under overhangs and I'm sure some of my native american ancestors did too. Shame on me and them too!!!!
Who am I to think I have the right to build a fire below an overhang thinking the next guy doesn't have the right to put chalk on holds marking the semi-virgin looking rock.
What I really hate are petroglyphs. hmmmm..yep..made a few of them myself.
Now, that glass really sucks though.
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rangerrob
Mar 6, 2011, 2:41 AM
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Adk, your reply was juvenile and pretty short sighted.
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notapplicable
Mar 6, 2011, 3:24 AM
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That is pretty *face palm* worthy. Some people just don't think things through.
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marc801
Mar 6, 2011, 3:52 PM
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Adk wrote: rangerrob wrote: Adk, your reply was juvenile and pretty short sighted. Sorry.  ...and your contribution to the thread was WHAT? 
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camhead
Mar 6, 2011, 4:35 PM
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marc801 wrote: Adk wrote: rangerrob wrote: Adk, your reply was juvenile and pretty short sighted. Sorry. ...and your contribution to the thread was WHAT? Calling you out as a juvenile...just in case it wasn't screamingly obvious from your moronic post.
Yeah, I never miss an opportunity to make fun of rangerbob, ever since he got all butthurt about me ruining Gunks climbing, and he says plenty of things on here that are worth picking on.
But in this case, he was spot on, and called you on your bullshit. Sometimes fish in barrels need to be shot, and he stepped up and did it.
Back on topic, the hard climbs at China Wall Cave in Logan Canyon, UT (home of Boone Speed's historic "Supertweak 14c"), just get doused with campfire smoke. Not so much climbers, but the cave is a very popular camping destination for Boy Scout troops. The smoke and ash reminants really make it an unpleasant place to climb.
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kachoong
Mar 6, 2011, 4:43 PM
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Come on guys, play nice. I see both sides to this. I can see Adk is trying to bring a humorus tone to the discussion but calling his post moronic isn't exactly constructive.
Adk; in my eyes, having fires at a crag is a fairly serious issue unless it's an acceptable local practise. From what I gather it's not at this crag so trying to identify causes and preventing further "vandalism" should be encouraged.
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rangerrob
Mar 6, 2011, 5:28 PM
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Hey, I'm here for no other purpose than to give people like Cam a football to kick around. I have the ability to not take myself too seriously. ADK, what I meant by that comment is that you seem to trivialize our actions, as if they have no consequence. You compared climbers and people partying having a campfire to Native Americans using fire for their survival.
The fact is that recreational campfires have impact, and when they are used in this manner, they threaten access. Your attempt at lightheartedness undermined an issue that could eventually threaten access, or at least, climbing enjoyment and aesthetics.
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darkgift06
Mar 6, 2011, 6:14 PM
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I climb a few hours south in Penticton & we have fires while bouldering in the winter. Make hot dogs, warm up... you know.. but not under a climb or wall that could be climbed, thats not cool. Oh & we usually have the fire in the same place someone else did.. sux for your area man...
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Adk
Mar 6, 2011, 9:51 PM
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rangerrob wrote: You compared climbers and people partying having a campfire to Native Americans using fire for their survival. Your attempt at lightheartedness undermined an issue that could eventually threaten access, or at least, climbing enjoyment and aesthetics.
If you check my post again you will see that I mentioned "my" ancestors, not yours, regarding fire.
No, fire was not only made for survival, ie to cook over , it was made also just as the picture in the OP shows.
I mentioned petroglyphs too. Good luck trying to pick that apart. You'd better have a bit more knowledge on them than I do. Good luck with that!!!
(This post was edited by Adk on Mar 6, 2011, 10:05 PM)
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Adk
Mar 6, 2011, 9:55 PM
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darkgift06 wrote: Oh & we usually have the fire in the same place someone else did.. .
Who are we to say that it is wrong? We're no different marking up the rock. A fire does it with soot and we do it with chalk. Duh!!
Now, if it's true that open fires are not allowed in that area we have a totally different issue don't we?
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Adk
Mar 6, 2011, 10:03 PM
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kachoong wrote: Come on guys, play nice. I see both sides to this. I can see Adk is trying to bring a humorus tone to the discussion but calling his post moronic isn't exactly constructive. Adk; in my eyes, having fires at a crag is a fairly serious issue unless it's an acceptable local practise. From what I gather it's not at this crag so trying to identify causes and preventing further "vandalism" should be encouraged.
Well if someone starts a fire and are bouldering by themselves and their buddy taking a picture, it doesn't reflect on the entire climbing community. Some would like to try to make you think that, so that you do what they want you to do in the future.
Here the fire is a direct reflection of the specific climbers. That is all.
Now, if a dozen climbers were there that might have a different impact.
(This post was edited by Adk on Mar 6, 2011, 10:08 PM)
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marc801
Mar 6, 2011, 10:54 PM
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darkgift06 wrote: I climb a few hours south in Penticton & we have fires while bouldering in the winter. Make hot dogs, warm up... you know.. but not under a climb or wall that could be climbed, thats not cool. Oh & we usually have the fire in the same place someone else did..
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marc801
Mar 6, 2011, 10:56 PM
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Adk wrote: Well if someone starts a fire and are bouldering by themselves and their buddy taking a picture, it doesn't reflect on the entire climbing community. Some would like to try to make you think that, so that you do what they want you to do in the future. Here the fire is a direct reflection of the specific climbers. That is all.
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Adk
Mar 6, 2011, 11:39 PM
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marc801 wrote: Adk wrote: Well if someone starts a fire and are bouldering by themselves and their buddy taking a picture, it doesn't reflect on the entire climbing community. Some would like to try to make you think that, so that you do what they want you to do in the future. Here the fire is a direct reflection of the specific climbers. That is all. You're not really that naive, are you? That's not the way land managers view it at all. It collectively reflects on all climbers, even if only the work of two assholes.
The other three land managers I work with besides myself view it this way. That is the way it works near me. Utah might be diffent though.
Ya see, we look at the big picture and work for everyones goals, not just for a specific adgenda we have. The thing with other land managers that we see is that they put their own childhood dreams first over everyone elses and screw things up.
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robx
Mar 7, 2011, 1:39 AM
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ugly looking fire too.
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rangerrob
Mar 7, 2011, 2:48 AM
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ADK, how does being a pencil pusher for a stainless steel tank manufacturer put you in a situation where you work with land managers?
I think I see the point you are trying to make here. "Your" ancestors used fire for whatever they thought was necessary, and they didn't alter or change the environment. So your use of fire, for whatever you want to use it for, should be acceptable. I think there are some variables you're not thinking about though.
Your ancestors needed fire for warmth, for cooking, for resource management, for making tools. Unless you're doing prescribed burns to obtain specific ecological objectives I don't think any of these really are truly necessary. If you are a Burn Boss, well then I'd be very surprised.
Please correct me if I am missing your point.
RR
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olderic
Mar 7, 2011, 2:53 AM
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slavetogravity wrote: olderic wrote: How do you know the fire was set by climbers? Given that this area is rarely ever frequented by anyone but climbers on the warmest of days and the fact that you'll hardly ever see anyone in the Park in the winter, in addition to the photographer seemingly using the fire in the foreground of his photos to add some sort of "show em' how core we are" aesthetic, and that in other photos the climbers in questions are seen standing around the fire with close up photos of their climbing shoes warming by the fire, you right I can't prove for be 100% certain that it was they who lit the fire. Given all the facts though it sure seems suspicious.
So presumably the broken bottles that you alluded to earlier were left by climbers too?
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granite_grrl
Mar 7, 2011, 12:33 PM
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Adk wrote: darkgift06 wrote: Oh & we usually have the fire in the same place someone else did.. . This is how it should be done. Yep, even if it is under an overhang and it pisses climbers off. Who are we to say that it is wrong? We're no different marking up the rock. A fire does it with soot and we do it with chalk. Duh!! Now, if it's true that open fires are not allowed in that area we have a totally different issue don't we?
There's a local climbing bouldering area in Niagara Falls where you always see kids having fires. It does suck when they do it in the good bouldering caves, but quite frankly I'm more concerned about the entire park going up in flames one of these days.
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darkgift06
Mar 7, 2011, 5:08 PM
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marc801 wrote: darkgift06 wrote: I climb a few hours south in Penticton & we have fires while bouldering in the winter. Make hot dogs, warm up... you know.. but not under a climb or wall that could be climbed, thats not cool. Oh & we usually have the fire in the same place someone else did.. Is this within Skaha Bluffs Provincial Park? If so, fires are emphatically not allowed. Recall the devastating forest fire of 1994.
No Marc, not in Skaha but in another location which had the same fire roll through. There was almost a foot of snow on the ground when we had our fire... & we tossed a shovel or 2 of snow on it when we were done lunch..
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