Does Redpoint apply to bouldering or does it need to strictly be lead climbing like that definition says?

Let not forget my favorite style.
Hangdog. The first attempt, with falls.

Who gives a fucking shit??????????????????

no, i don't care, we as climber all know when we send something clean... so i don't think these terms really matter unless you are a pro and your paycheck relies on it. All these terms for the finish of a climb are dumb.. you either climb it clean or you don't you either do it with the draws in place or without.. you always send trad by placing your own gear or you don't learn to place gear. so these specific terms for my weekend/evening activity are useless. My friends and i frequently "redpoint" 11's and 12's but we don't bother writing that crap in our climbing logs (lol climbing logs are dumb too)... it is useless...

btw, funny site.

but with pre-placed protection

are they talking about bolt or removable pros ?

Now, concerning trad climbing on preplaced protection. This approach may be ridiculed, as you say, at the very least by Healyj, who, as we all know, has a very specific and conservative definition of what trad is. However, I have preplaced gear on a few all gear routes to check out the location, device type, and specific safety needs of the route before attempting the thing from the ground up while placing gear. This is a tactic not unlike sport climbing, and can trend into head pointing, if the thing is dangerous enough. In doing so, I am confident that I haven’t committed some sin worthy of ridicule. I may be ridiculed by some, but, that is to the ridiculer’s detriment, not mine. I am enjoying the climbing.

Heh, yore ascent log book on here is pretty full for someone who thinks it "useless"...

I don't see any 11s or 12s listed there either...

Now, concerning trad climbing on preplaced protection. This approach may be ridiculed, as you say, at the very least by Healyj, who, as we all know, has a very specific and conservative definition of what trad is. However, I have preplaced gear on a few all gear routes to check out the location, device type, and specific safety needs of the route before attempting the thing from the ground up while placing gear. This is a tactic not unlike sport climbing, and can trend into head pointing, if the thing is dangerous enough. In doing so, I am confident that I haven’t committed some sin worthy of ridicule. I may be ridiculed by some, but, that is to the ridiculer’s detriment, not mine. I am enjoying the climbing.

Sure you can redpoint a climb on your initial attempt. If you climbed it cleanly then its a red point. Flash is a proper subset of redpoint so if you climbed it with some form of beta (TBD) cleanly the first time then you get to say that you are in that inner circle of the redpoint set. Likewise on-sight is a proper subset of flash - you did it cleanly the first time without any beta (except you can split hairs about the definition of beta - grade? if anyone has ever climbed it? etc.). So then you get to be in the inner inner circle. woo-hoo. Most people will describe what they did in the grandest way possible. So they won't just say they red pointed it if they can say something "better". They could just say they got to the top eventually if they wanted too.

They make perfect sense in the context of a comp. Of the few comps I have been to, before the finals, maximum points were awarded for a flash of a problem, and lower point values awarded for subsequent attempts (redpoint, although the term is not really used in bouldering). For finals, the comps were onsight format, meaning that competitors did not get to see the route until they were to climb it and were not allowed to watch other competitors attempt the route/problem. Finalist only got one shot at the finals route, so they either got the onsight or they didn't get the route at all. Finalist who did not complete the route were placed by how far they got on the route. So the term may not describe an event, but when the competitors are forced to attempt routes "onsight" then I think it is a fair way to describe the competition format.

yeah, and a log that i rarely use... the last one was a climb i onsighted and bolted it ground up.. so i guess with ya'lls logic the last time i hit the rock was in march? right, i am very attentative to my log..

You may be historically correct. I wasn't climbing when these terms were thought up. You would know better than I. BUT...I was giving the definition of how they are used today, most,if not 100% of the time. I have never heard anyone refer to their first attempt as a redpoint. Crusty old guys like you don't even use those terms any ways. You just climb and shake your head at us young whipper snappers (In climber years...I'm not that young) who like to brag about our ascents using fancy language.

Josh

Jay, nice explanation.

BTW, one stars hurt my feelings

Josh

I didn't one-star you!

Jay