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celticelement
Dec 15, 2002, 3:19 PM
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I would think that with the small amount of gear between you and gravity there would be great hesitation to buy used gear. If you look at gear can you spot when not to buy the gear? What should be looked for?
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redpoint73
Dec 15, 2002, 3:36 PM
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I will assume (possibly incorrectly) that by your question, you are not a a climber of advanced experience. So here is my take. I know people will contradict me, but here is my HUMBLE OPINION:
I would not buy anything, unless you know the person well, trust them and know the history of the gear. Pieces could have been dropped, exposed to chemicals/sunlight/heat, or otherwise damaged. Stores usually destroy returned gear and not resell it. There's a reason for that. Partially, its because they don't want to get sued. Partially because they are smart.
I know climbing gear is expensive. But do you really want to be DOUBTING your gear when you are in a sketchy/difficult spot way up on some cliff??? You will have enough to worry about, friend! Your gear is one of the last things you want to question up there.
Whats the most you can save by purchasing a used rack? A couple hundred dollars? Less? You life is worth more than a couple hundred dollars. Work some overtime and buy some shiny new gear. You can get a lot of stuff on sale, and great deals online.
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drysdan
Dec 15, 2002, 3:42 PM
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RP73's got a really good point. The only thing I think I would even consider buying used would be non-safety gear, such as perhaps shoes or a chalkbag, or something. I don't think I want to put my life in the hands of something that I don't know the precise history of.
-D
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vicum
Dec 16, 2002, 6:10 AM
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I don't mean to sound like a prick, but I'll just play the devils advocate here for a sec.
Haven't ever doubted NEW gear? I mean, no manufacture process is 100% reliable. Sure they have inspectors and quality assurance, so do car manufactures and lemons still happens, and shoes still fall apart in the first week sometimes.
It seem to me when your producing 1000's of ropes, sling cams or whatever, something will slip by. Maybe they get shipped the wrong aluminum and don't catch it, or the swaging maching didn't work quite right on your stopper. The list could go on. Now I know people RAERLY(never?) die from failed gear(or at least it gets blamed on human error) but it still seems like a possibility to me, or at least something I think about from time to time.
Hopefully someone who really understands the manufacture process will prove I'm full of it:-)
~Arnold
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climbsomething
Dec 16, 2002, 6:21 AM
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Shoes can be bought used (if you don't mind knowing somebody else put their foot funk in them or might have stretched them). Other misc soft goods, like chalk bags, don't need to be new.
But unless you know the prior owner and are familiar with how s/he treated the hardware, and totally trust the gear's history, get it new.
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jt512
Dec 16, 2002, 6:30 AM
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I've bought lots of gear used, and used lots of gear I've bootied off routes. Hardware (including dropped hardware) is ok unless there is visible damage. Inspect any used gear closely that you're considering on buying. If the moving parts work properly and there is no visible damage, make an offer.
-Jay
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bouldertoad
Dec 16, 2002, 6:40 AM
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All good points thuis far. In response to the doubting of new gear i will say this. Whn you buy new gear there are processes that are taken to assure you of the wuality of the gear. This being said there is a chance, albeit a small one, that hte gear you are purchasing new is going to fail.
I never buy used gear unless I know the person selling it. If you are buying gear from someone you do not know then I would not buy anything that i would not trust my life to. Even though I say this i routinely use stoppers that i have plucked from various spots but i do try and use htem in situations that I am either out of all other possibilities or I can back up the piece shortly thereafter.
All in all use your common sense and go with your gut.
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vicum
Dec 17, 2002, 12:49 AM
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I think it's worth mentioning too that if you decide to buy used gear, you should NOT buy a used ropes or other nylon gear. You can't really tell the condition of this stuff and it breaks down over time, especially in sunlight.
~Arnold
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hiatt2climbhard
Dec 17, 2002, 5:20 AM
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in response to using dropped gear as long as it looks alright, I would say no way. Aluminum can crack from the inside out and never be seen until failure. If a piece take a good sized fall replace it.
Chad
ps I'm not sure I worded "cracks from the inside out" correctly, but there can be unseen damage to aluminum.
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apollodorus
Dec 17, 2002, 6:24 AM
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Wanna buy some used gear?
http://home.pacbell.net/takasper/cratered.jpg
Actually, that was a sick joke.
These cams are not for sale. They're PTPP's and they cratered from 800 feet up Scorched Earth when the pig got away from PTPP and me.
What's REALLY sick is that he wants me to FIX them. We're going to use half of them as belay anchors on El Cap's Bermuda Dunes, and the rest as pro.
That way, we can upgrade all the A1 to A6!
BWAAA-HAAA-HAAA-HAAA-HAAA-HAAA!
[ This Message was edited by: apollodorus on 2002-12-17 10:18 ]
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gunkiemike
Dec 18, 2002, 8:24 PM
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Just to add a comment to the good advice so far: most folks are hypocrits. They climb on used gear of unknown history quite often. Specifically, most anytime they use someone else's rack. Even more so when they meet a relative stranger in the parking lot and do a route together. How often to these safety minded folks ask their partner, "Did you buy any of this stuff used? Any booty nuts on this rack?" (They also might buy a used car with - gasp - used brakes! But that's for a different thread). PS - new gear is indeed sometime faulty, as evidenced by the not-uncommon recall notices.
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tucsonalex
Dec 18, 2002, 9:10 PM
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I've bought used gear on ebay with no problems (yet). IMHO a close visual inspection is enough to tell if a piece of gear should be trusted or not. I would not, however trust a used rope/sling for the same reasons posted above. Am I a hypocrite? Maybe.
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bouldertoad
Dec 26, 2002, 4:47 AM
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In response to whoever said you are a hypocrite by climbing on someone else's rack i an say this. When you climb with someone you are making a personality and a judgement call on the safety of yourself as well as your partner. If I am not sure of someone's abilities to safely climb with me I either do not climb with them or I try and help them learn some good habits. To say we are hypocrties is not a valid statement. Being a hypocrite would be knowingly using someone else's gear that is not in good shape. I visually inspect all the gear I use and I trust, with my life, every person I have ever climbed with.
Now if you are going to use the hypocrite analogy then you should have said everyone who sport climbs is knowingly using gear that that is used and abused by people hang dogging and falling etc.....
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epic_ed
Dec 26, 2002, 5:14 AM
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Most aid climbers have a lot of used gear. You need way too much stuff to buy it all new, and in many cases it only has to hold body weight, anyway.
I've bought used cams, stoppers, pitons, biners, and hooks. I have some bootied biners and stoppers that I use with no hesitation. These are items you can visiually inspect and determine within reason if they are any good.
Things I won't buy used: rope, slings, webbing, and condoms.
Ed
BTW -- Tom, those are some f'ed up looking cams! I wondered what that aftermath looked like...
[ This Message was edited by: up2top on 2002-12-25 21:15 ]
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smileyface
Dec 26, 2002, 5:31 AM
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gunkiemike
Dec 29, 2002, 11:27 PM
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Let me clarify me earlier statement - most folks *who say they'd never buy used gear due to the safety issue* are hypocrits. B-toad, I don't include you in this category based on your post. In fact, most of the responses here seem pretty reasonable.
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pusherem
Dec 29, 2002, 11:47 PM
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none
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locorogue
Dec 30, 2002, 4:47 AM
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You said it...
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djmeat
Dec 30, 2002, 5:05 AM
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I think aslong as the gear is non-pro. IE shoes, chalk bag, crag brush, coats, shirts, pants, rack(holder not actual pro), Back packs, haul bags(to some extent) hydration equipment(big name for a water bottle ), rope bags, some types of belay devices(ie ATC's and BRD's, although that is prolly pushing it) Tents, and really anythign that your life does'nt depend I would say is 100% go for the used market.
nuts cams harness ropes and the like HELL NO. Its just not worth it no matter how cheap it is.
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wallrat
Jan 9, 2003, 11:44 PM
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What? If it weren't for used gear, I'd have no gear at all. Used cams are 'Climber Dollars' C'mon, keep the climber dirtbags on the road for another week or so... buy that piece and use it in good health.
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beyond_gravity
Jan 9, 2003, 11:50 PM
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I'd use any used trad gear, and long as it looked ok.
chances are that the gear placements are going to be crappier then the gear itself. I would just mark them and not use them for belays.
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flying_dutchman
Jan 10, 2003, 12:41 AM
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ouch man, dropping the pig 800 feet and watching those friends go by by. Damn, i'd be crying like a little baby after that.
oh, ya, back on topic; i wouldn't buy used sh1t if my life was going to depend on it. Aid climbing might not be so bad i suppose if they are only for body wieght placements
so a little welding and duck tape and PTPP's cams should be good as new right? Straighten out the cam lobes in the vice with a few hammer blows...
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alpnclmbr1
Jan 10, 2003, 12:55 AM
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If you trust your life to one piece of gear used or not you are a fool. the odds of a used piece failing and a new piece is not significantly different. If something has been dropped, you can ussually tell.
that said I haven't bought any used gear but I wouldn't have a problem with someone who did.
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totigers
Jan 10, 2003, 1:01 AM
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I forgot to log in. That last post is mine.
so would you climb with me??
[ This Message was edited by: totigers on 2003-01-09 17:02 ]
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number7
Jan 10, 2003, 1:10 AM
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But these! I swear they were never droped, or have defects that might get you killed.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=30106&item=1987224875&rd=1
I love them, but I need a size bigger
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