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wallstreethigh
Mar 10, 2003, 6:46 AM
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Registered: Aug 9, 2002
Posts: 8
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I have been piecing together a rack that I wouldn't mind some comments on. At first I was going to buy a Metolius Pro Package from Mountain Gear for $660 which just included a set of cams, nuts, & hexes. Then I started to look around a bit. I am trying to get the best bang for my buck, but at the same time I don't want to get myself killed with crappy gear. If you have the patience and the knowledge, could you please tell me where I might be going wrong with the rack listed below, or what I might be missing. I will be climbing mainly trad and mixed routes, single piches for now. (I am not including a rope bag, ATC, etc. because I already have the majority of those necessities.) Thank you again to all the wonderful climbers out there. :D
60m 10.5mm Edelweiss rope - $115
10 Omega quick draws (10.95/draw) - $110
Robot Cams (full set of 8 ) - $200
ABC Huevos Nuts (full set of 13) - $53
Wild Country Rockcentrics (set of 7) - $75
Singing Rock Multiple/Double Loop Gear Sling - $20
Petzl Corax Harness - $70
Pair of Mad Rock Hookers - $90
GRAND TOTAL OF $733
I was also thinking about adding a set of Splitter Cams ($210) but really can't justify the money right now. Is there anything available that would be of lesser price but same performance? (0.5mm-1.53mm range)
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petsfed
Mar 10, 2003, 7:01 AM
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Registered: Sep 25, 2002
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2 questions:
Have you tried on the corax, and will you be doing a lot of chimneys/offwidths?
If you answered no to the second one, its a great harness. If you answered no to the first one, well, it is a great harness but you might want to try it on. $70 is a lot for a harness and I've found (and own) better for cheaper.
Also, you should get a volume discount when you buy 5 or more quickdraws, but I could be wrong.
Have you tried on the Hookers? If not, do so, as my feet are always worth more money (I have $200 set aside for my next pair of climbing shoes + resole on the ones I"ve already got). Never buy shoes simply from a catalog/website. You will get screwed.
The set of Robots are great until you hit bigger cracks (eg fist and larger). 91mm is not quite 4 inches, so be adequately warned. The WC 4 and 5 Technical friends might be a sound investment, although they are not as cheap as the Robots.
Other than that, looks like a pretty good list. You've done your research.
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gyngve
Mar 10, 2003, 7:34 AM
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Registered: Dec 28, 2002
Posts: 155
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It's good to have some longer runners. They'll keep the rope drag down.
It's no fun to:
a) Have your pieces walking out / lifting out from the rope drag.
b) Feel like you're hauling a sled when you're topping out.
And, it's fun to use runners to sling horns/chockstones/trees!
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gunked
Mar 10, 2003, 7:50 AM
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Registered: Feb 1, 2002
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Great job on the research. I'll throw in my 2 cents. :
I just retired a 10.5 Edelweiss ope after 7 or so years of use. It's age alone was the impetus for the retirement. That and a 60+ foot fall, even though it still feels great. It was a Stratos.
Don't know much about the cams and the nuts. I hear they're pretty decent.
I'd rethink getting only quickdraws. For trad and mixed stuff, you'll find standard length and a couple of double length runners more versatile, unless you're looking to try out how well you're rope handles a fall over an edge. Not to mention the rope drag you'll be dealing with if the protection isn't in a straight line going up the cliff.
Gear sling is a good choice for those who use them. I prefer the weight on my hip as opposed to my neck and shoulders as I have better center of gravity when pulling moves on steeper ground. To each his/her own.
Great harness choice. I got one and love it for everything from the gym to ice.
Don't know much about the Hooker yet. I would recommend trying it on before you buy it though. If it don't fit right, the rest of the gear isn't gonna matter much if you're in too much pain to enjoy the experience.
As for the splitter gear, I've heard decent things about the 4-cams, yet bad things about the 2-cams. Even for specialty pieces for an aid rack, they're not all that. At least, not yet
Hope that helped. :)
-Jason
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duskerhu
Mar 10, 2003, 8:13 AM
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Registered: Apr 13, 2002
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My comment would be this...
You say you're going to be doing mostly "trad and mixed routes" but you don't list any biners/locking biners or slings/runners. Something you will definately need for trad routes. Even with 10 draws, you will need at least 5 or 6 lockers if you don't already have them.
I'll second the bigger cams statement too. The RE Robots are good pieces but you'll need something bigger for large hands to fist size cracks and up... The 4 &5 Tech Friends like petsfed mentioned work here or BD Camalots 4 & 5 but they are more expensive yet...
duskerhu
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venezuela
Mar 10, 2003, 8:21 PM
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Registered: Jul 15, 2002
Posts: 69
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my two cents:
1). sacrifice some quickdraws, and get spare biners, at least 6 (if your doing trad I suggest only standard gate, not bent).....
2). those quickdraws that you decide to keep, put them on "not-stiff" slings, like the metolious ones (so they don't push your pro into, or out, of the crack), or any other "open loop" sling. Also, try to have long quikdraws (7 inches/17 cm, 10 inch/25cm. and 12 inches/30 cm.). Those little, 5 inch draws, don't work as well on trad (rope drag, and pushing out pro). For these kind of slings, check out www.rockempire.com (wich you already have, I suppose).
3).I have to agree with some of the guys: some lockers also, at least 3.
4). go to www.gearexpress.com they have a great blowout section!! also check out the package deals, and the webbing and slings link, if you decide to create your own draws.
5). get slings, lots of them......at least 6 shoulder length (24 inch.) and a couple double length (48 inch).
hope it helps..
Diego :wink:
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wlderdude
Mar 10, 2003, 8:22 PM
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Registered: Aug 8, 2002
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If the draws you are interested in are the Omegalite 4.0's, don't get them. I bought a bunch of them when I was starting out and I hate them. Invest in something better. The Positronis my favorite, followed by the Kong keylocking, but then again, these are just my person favorites. There is almost a concensus that the Omegalite 4.0's suck.
You will probably want a bunch of webbing and slings and several lockers. These are the "duct tape" of trad climbing.
For the larger sized cams, you might want the Trango Flex cams, or their acme equivalents. WC forged friends might work well, too since they cost about as much, but are wider than the Robots.
Oh, and add to that list a headlamp if you don't already have a good one.
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tim
Mar 10, 2003, 8:37 PM
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Registered: Apr 4, 2002
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1) get 4-6 Omega Pacific Jake or Jake Jr. quicklock biners. these are far and away the nicest and most convenient lockers on the market, IMHO.
2) pick up some slings, dammit. draws are for weenies. get yourself some shoulder length spectra slings (Mammut 8mm are the lightest and nicest) and learn how to triple them into draw length assemblages.
3) either get a webolette or a couple of double-length slings for anchors.
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awsclimber
Mar 10, 2003, 8:44 PM
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Registered: Apr 18, 2002
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DOn't get any "quickdraws" if you are doing trad. make your own out of 2 and four foot runners, than attach the biners yourself. THey're much more versatile and you can even use them for sport. in addition you can make your own just by tying half inch webbing and sewing the ends in place, which is much much cheaper than anything else you'll find. For biners, get whatever you like, nothing out there is going to break, and its worth having something you like I go with one nonwire and one wire gate on each draw.
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rodeomountain
Mar 10, 2003, 9:03 PM
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Registered: Oct 23, 2002
Posts: 190
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I did a lot of research to find the best deals and then dropped a $1000 on a trad and aid rack.
The 3 sites you need to look at are:
acmeclimbing.com
climbaxe.com, and
gearexpress.com
You can buy a starter package (harness, madrock shoes, chalkbag, locking biner and belay device) from acme for $100.
You can buy a trad starter rack from acme for $265 which includes: 9 biners, 8 nuts and 8 robot cams. That would be cheaper than buying the cams and nuts seprate and then buying biners to carry them.
I got the mystery draws from acme, $7.00 ea., and all 14 of them came in being the same type. I broke them down so I can use them with runners.
Spectra Runners (2 foot) are at climbaxe for $2.95. These are $8 - $10 in the store.
A set of 9 hexes are at acme for $39 un-slung or $53 slung.
That would save you a $100 or more.
The robot cams worked fine, so no worries there.
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tim
Mar 10, 2003, 9:08 PM
Post #11 of 16
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Registered: Apr 4, 2002
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one quick note:
whatever you do, DO NOT get rock empire nuts. They suck and slide all over the wire. For some reason the quality brands (WC, Black Diamond) and the exact knockoffs of them (ABC, Smileys, etc.) are MUCH better "feeling".
( just trust me on this OK. )
what another user said about biners is way true, you will end up replacing many of them if you buy ones that you hate. it's totally worth spending a tiny bit more to get lighter/more-usable biners that work effortlessly for you on lead.
how come you're asking for rack advice on a webiste, btw? not that it's necessarily 'wrong' but normally people get a feel for what kind of gear they like best, by using their (normally more experienced) partners' racks.
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bandycoot
Mar 10, 2003, 9:10 PM
Post #12 of 16
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Registered: Nov 25, 2002
Posts: 2028
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Don't get the gear sling. Don't forget tax. Don't forget racking biners. Don't get a double set of nuts until you have a set of hexes bigger than your largest nut, and have tried them out. Don't get two different types of cams if you don't have to. Don't forget long slings!
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venezuela
Mar 10, 2003, 9:17 PM
Post #13 of 16
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Registered: Jul 15, 2002
Posts: 69
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oh yeah..I forgot: CHECK OUT www.acmeclimbing.com and www.climbaxe.com
just like rodeomountain said....I own 7 spectra slings from climbaxe.com, and they are great!!!!! the best I have seen. get those!!!
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danl
Mar 10, 2003, 9:36 PM
Post #14 of 16
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Registered: Nov 12, 2001
Posts: 288
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Climb with other people in the area where you will be doing most of your climbing and buy whatever they have.
Remember most racks are area specific. What I carry in the gunks isn't what I'd carry in the valley or in the tetons
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jiadar
Mar 10, 2003, 9:40 PM
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Registered: Oct 2, 2002
Posts: 89
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First, I ask, have you tried out the stuff you are buying? I have never used Rock Empire cams, but cams will be your most expensive purchase and I would suggest using many different ones before buying your own. Each manufacturer has its own feel, strengths and weaknesses, and you will only know what you want on your rack after you have used bunches.
Also it looks like you're just starting out. If you don't have knowledgable friends that lead climb, you can hire guide(s). More than instruction, you will get a chance to use their rack. I took trad classes with 3 different guides, and three different racks. You will learn what you like and don't like. Also the cost is not that expensive, if you look around. I paid on average $8 an hour for instruction from an AMGA certified climbing school.
If you are buying a whole rack at once, go to your local outfitter and they will probably give you a 20% discount. So, you could end up getting higher quality gear for not much more expense.
My rack consists of:
40 BD Ovals
7 D biners
7 Trango locking biners
4 44" sewn slings
8 24" sewn slings
8 12" sewn slings (use for quickdraws too)
2 3.75" dogbone runners
100' 1" tubular webbing
Metolius 4CU 1-10 (never use 9 & 10)
Metolius TCU 1-4 (always use these)
Pink, Red Tricam
3 Hexes, one small, medium, large
1 set of curve nuts
I like metolius cams, because they are light, durable, and most importanly have a 1 finger trigger. This is great for trying to work the cam out of a deep small crack with a nut tool.
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bandycoot
Mar 10, 2003, 10:33 PM
Post #16 of 16
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Registered: Nov 25, 2002
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In reply to: Don't get the gear sling. Don't forget tax. Don't forget racking biners. Don't get a double set of cams until you have a set of hexes bigger than your largest nut, and have tried them out. Don't get two different types of cams if you don't have to. Don't forget long slings! |
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