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litleclimberchick
Apr 13, 2003, 4:04 AM
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:? is it just me do guys always have to state their superiority to women? it seems like female climbers do not recieve the respect they deserve. isn't this in anyway disturbing to anyone else? :?
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bvb
Apr 13, 2003, 4:30 AM
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hmmm, i dunno...until someone else frees the nose in a day -- and that includes the hubers -- lynn hill wears the crown -- male or female.
the need for "respect" is somthing that a climber can write off once they've got nothing left to prove. until that time comes, all climbers, male or female, struggle with their feelings about how other climbers see them, and whether or not they're getting the "respect" they deserve. it's a blind alley. i find it hard to believe there are any guys out there so naive. are we talking about teenaged boys or something?
whatever guys you've been hanging with who think they're "superior" to women have obviously never climbed with mari gingery, or lynn hill, or any of the many women whoa are doing hard-core alpine routes in the alps...plus i've heard there's some woman out there named lisa something-or-other who pulls hard on the small stones, and some other woman named beth robbin or something like that who's an ok crack climber...and then there is brittany griffith, who is as all-out hardcore in every respect as any male climber who ever lived, and then some. respect? actions speak louder than words. tell you male freinds to pull their heads our of the sand.
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agentoffortune
Apr 13, 2003, 4:32 AM
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Who cares? Most girls I have climbed with are better than me. Any guy that thinks they are better needs to climb with Lisa Rands or Lynn Hill.
Richard
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rocknut1
Apr 14, 2003, 2:53 PM
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At our gym there are some girls who make me look sick. I climb 5.11 + and I am usually worried about everyone else and not just climbing. It seems that girls climb and don't worry about the fact that its a 5.9 or 10 or overhung.
Most women do not have the upper body strength to climb a tough route but have the technique to do it and get it done. Tech is what its all about, strength will only go so far.
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jman
Apr 14, 2003, 3:13 PM
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I think it's probably just the guys that you're around that don't give proper respect to female climbers...maybe it's their ages, experience level, or just overinflated egos. This past weekend at the gym I go to they held a bouldering comp and I saw Lisa Rands and Emily Harrington flash almost every problem. I have nothing but respect for good female climbers. I say out climb those guys and put them in their place.
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drkodos
Apr 14, 2003, 3:34 PM
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It's just you.
:wink:
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cerikpete
Apr 17, 2003, 9:49 PM
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I got to see Lisa Rands climb at a comp I was at, she was great.
Umm... why is this in the indoor gyms forum?
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coldclimb
Apr 17, 2003, 9:56 PM
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You'll never hear me dissing girls. Tons of them climb better than me, and one even has me wrapped around her finger. :wink: Maybe you should hang out with better guys.
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rainydave
Apr 17, 2003, 10:30 PM
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This argument is so old and tired, but I just can't help myself. Men don't discriminate against women anymore than women discriminate against men. (I know that comment is not PC, but I choose not to believe everything I see on TV or in the papers without taking a good look at both sides of the issue). If you feel that you are being treated unfairly by your peers, chances are that the problem is not your gender. The problem is your character. Stop stereotying and blaming others for your personal problems. Blah.
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bandycoot
Apr 17, 2003, 11:01 PM
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I think that you just need to change climbing partners. My wife was leading trad after 2-3 months of climbing, and was onsighting 5.9 trad in j-tree in around 4-5 maybe? I have guy friendsthat have climbed for years that I don't want to lead for me at all because they suck at placing pro and overall competence is WAY sub par. Chicks rule. Not only that, but I can check out her ass when she's leading above me... :shock: Nothing like a good stemming route! :D
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thrasher
Apr 18, 2003, 12:14 AM
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Because men are better at everything and they know how to spell discrimination. :roll:
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weaselman
Apr 18, 2003, 12:54 AM
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:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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mtman
Apr 18, 2003, 1:04 AM
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i don't under stand why there is this discrimination. i started climbing with a girl younger than me and we never had a problem with it. also a more important thing in discrimination is against beginners, some people have said that you have to earn respect form other climbers by proving what you can climb, why should it matter if you climb 5.6 or 5.13 we are all doing this for fun right? so why not just extend a hand out to the new guys and gals for you were a beginners once to.
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mwbtle
Apr 18, 2003, 2:58 PM
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In reply to: This argument is so old and tired, but I just can't help myself. Men don't discriminate against women anymore than women discriminate against men. (I know that comment is not PC, but I choose not to believe everything I see on TV or in the papers without taking a good look at both sides of the issue). If you feel that you are being treated unfairly by your peers, chances are that the problem is not your gender. The problem is your character. Stop stereotying and blaming others for your personal problems. Blah.
ok, so I really don't agree with this. Maybe you don't discriminate...but its not universal. I've been fortunate enough to deal with a minimum of male chauvinists...and actually, you are right, there are female chauvinists too, but they are out there. I've had comments made about my brains or brawn that were overtly discriminatory. I then ripped into the people who have done that and they never said anything again, but it happens.
I find its usually the young ones who do it. Or men who haven't experienced smart strong women.
I'm not a feminazi, and I have more male friends than female...I just call it like I see it. I'm going to leave it at that...you really don't want to hear the whole rant.
to the original poster: girl, it happens. just outclimb them and they'll shut up. Us girls have to make up for our genetic lack of muscles with brains and flexibility...I think Lynn Hill said it best when she said there was never a move that defeated her because she wasn't strong enough, she just had to figure out how to do it her own way.
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climbincajun
Apr 18, 2003, 4:01 PM
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doesnt this belong in that women's forum?
btw, you should find new guys to hang out with.
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mother_sheep
Apr 18, 2003, 4:51 PM
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This may have already been stated but as a woman, I think women do get the credit they deserve. The thing is that there are a lot more men that climb and set records by testing the unknown or doing the unthinkable than there are women. Women do amazing things on stone. You pick up a climbing mag and you read about it all the time. They do get credit. Since women are after all the weaker sex (hack hack, said tongue and cheek) when women accomplish huge feats in climbing, in some ways, their accomplishments are exploited because their success is even more shocking than it would be for a man to accomplish the same goal just because women are perceived as weaker. I don't think discrimination is an issue. The issue is that there are simply less women out there doing the things that men do in climbing and I guess that's not even really an issue. It's just a fact.
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litleclimberchick
Apr 30, 2003, 11:02 PM
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okay....it is just me then....thanks for your input
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redpoint73
May 1, 2003, 12:20 AM
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Maybe because men know how to spell "discrimination".
Just kidding. :lol: :lol: :lol:
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gymclimbfreak
May 1, 2003, 1:57 AM
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I guess I'm feeling a little ballsy tonight and will throw in my $.02 worth. In the climbing world everyday a guy is shown up by a women who is better than he is. I'm a prime example. I get my butt kicked everyday I climb by my partner. In the recent issue of climbing women just took a step forward with an invention that allows them to pee standing up! so now us guys can't make that claim that we can do that and women can't. I think anyone who knows anyhting will also know that women are just as good if not better than men in climbing. Lynn Hill is a great example, I haven't seen any guys free the nose in a day, but I'm still relatively new. Let's look at technique and strength.. true some men are ungodly strong, some women are that as well. but 90% of the time a women will outclimb a man because she has very good technique. A guy will be more likely to rely on his strength to help him. And a guy can't say that a women can't climb what he climbs.. women have been climbing 8000m peaks too. k2, all of them, and a lot of them un aided (sans oxygen) so ladies... please don't generalize all men as chauvanistic pigs, and guys... give the props to the ladies
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collegekid
May 1, 2003, 2:21 AM
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girl: "boys smell like poo!"
boy: "girls have cooties!"
girl: "well, girls are better than boys!"
boy: "nuh-uh, boys are better!"
mother: "No, boys are not better than girls, just different.... In bad ways."
father: "Listen to your mother, kids. Now be quiet so i can watch tv."
girl: "see, told you so."
Anyway, isn't this argument a little tired?
Of course men and women have differences yadda yadda yadda.
HOWEVER, if women could "rely on their technique and intelligence" as opposed to men who "rely on brutish strength, grunting and powering up the wall" then why is lynn hill so buff????? crap, i don't call being cut like a body builder a case of good technique and intelligence, i call that brute strength.
Also, women that are cut are NOT attractive.
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ridethespiral
May 1, 2003, 3:23 AM
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I'm not sure the exact situation with the guys that aren't giving you the respect you deserve. However, you have to see it from their point of view too. Women have a win win situation in most sports where they participate alongside men. Men are expected to be better at physical sports than women, we're built differently. Men are physically stronger than women for the most part. Now if a women is outclimbed by a man it's no big deal, she's cool as hell just for being into the sport and being out there climbing. If you're close in climbing level to these guys, they're most likely not giving you the respect because for a guy to "lose" to a girl (not that there's really winning and losing in climbing, but you get the point) is a major blow to the self esteem. Now if i was these guys I'd be totally stoked to be climbing with a chick that could keep up, but they're probably younger and more into that competative part. Whether they give you the respect outwardly or not, I'm sure they have a lot of respect for you for being a climber, they're just not mature enough to be honest about it.
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curt
May 1, 2003, 3:24 AM
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OK, I'll help.
gymclimbfreak, I do not believe the statistic that states that 90% of the time a woman will outclimb a man due to better technique. Can you cite some source for this data?
I do think, however, that if you take a group of men and a group of women out climbing FOR THE FIRST TIME--and they are all reasonably fit, the women may indeed outperform the men. This has been my experience anyway.
If you look at the top levels of climbing, however, there are very few women that can keep up with a relatively large number of men climbing at that level. Oh, and camhead--in addition to Josune Bereziartu, Lynn Hill also climbs pretty well (for a girl) anyway.
Curt
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antimatter
May 1, 2003, 3:27 AM
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In reply to: :? is it just me do guys always have to state their superiority to women? it seems like female climbers do not recieve the respect they deserve. isn't this in anyway disturbing to anyone else? :?
What? You're kidding, right?
Beth Rodden, Lisa Rands, Lynn Hill, Steph Davis, and on and on and on... There's so many excellent female climbers and most any male would be lucky to climb a number grade below them. Puhleeze.
Now as far as sexism goes, I've climbed with plenty of females who have their own "sexist" issues. Guys or Gals, just let them have their "issues" until they outgrow them. It's really a maturity thing, 'ya know?
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moabbeth
May 1, 2003, 3:32 AM
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Depends on where you climb. I only climb outside. I've never experienced anything like what you're referencing. I've found the opposite to be true...I've had SO much positive encouragement from the guys I climb with, hell that's why almost all my partners to date have been men. I've found most guys are thrilled to have girls who want to climb hard and learn as much as possible. If anything I notice guys at the crag pulling superiority complexes on *each other* but not on girls.
Do you climb in a gym? If so that might explain things, there tends to be a lot more unecessary 'tuding going on there than outside on real rock where climbers belong.
Also, I don't mean to be the spelling Nazi, but it's "discrimination" with an "i", not an "e".
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