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judasgoat
Jun 5, 2003, 5:16 PM
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Registered: Apr 30, 2003
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I have some questions on bolt safety:
1. If a bolt seems to be solid (doesn't turn, looks relatively new) but the hanger rotates under it, is this a safe anchor?
2. Who replaces bolts at popular areas? I assume bolts for top roping and sport climbing will take many falls, but who determines when they need replacing, and who does the job?
I'm sure these questions have been asked before, but I couldn't find them in the forums.
Thanks!
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alpinerockfiend
Jun 5, 2003, 5:33 PM
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All I can say about spinning hangers is that I've used them. I know nothing about the physics that regard falling on a loose hanger, but I'm sure somebody here does.
Replacement, at least in my experience, has been done mainly by the first ascentionist who placed the bolts originally. Last summer, I spent time replacing the TR/Rap anchors and bolts on a bunch of climbs at a local crag because the first ascentionst could not find the time to do it. When to replace fixed anchors depends on a number of factors: type of rock it is situated in, how long it's been there, how much use it sees, effects of the weather, local customs... It would be best for you to talk to a local first ascentionist who's put up a number of routes in your area.
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tenn_dawg
Jun 5, 2003, 5:36 PM
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Well, these might not be the answers you want, but here they are...
1) Mabey, mabey not. Due to the skill nessessary to properly place a bolt, you can not be certain that a bolt, even if it looks good, is bomber. It is possible that a multitude of things have happened to it durring and after installation that could have jeopardized the bolt.
However, the attributes that you listed assuredly are good grounds for trusting a bolt. If it is rusty, a spinner, or otherwise manky looking, It should be trusted less than a bomber looking rawl.
Use your judgement.
2) Usually the area developers, in coordination with the area's climbing advocacy group. Out west, the ASCA has taken the responsibility of replacing bolts on many routes that were established years ago. In the rest of the country, it is a strongly individual responsibility. There is a financial investment that must be made, along with the time of the installers.
Because of this, many anchors are in sub standard (in my opinion) condition. If you think you have found a saftey hazard related to bad fixed anchors, bring it to the attention of the local Climbing Advocasy Group, and any area developers you may know. Show your consern, and offer your time to help out if they need it.
Travis
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boltdude
Jun 10, 2003, 7:20 AM
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If a bolt looks new but the hanger spins, it's usually OK but that's definitely not a good sign. More important is if the bolt itself moves.
Seeing as you're from Santa Clara, you're probably talking about anchors at Castle Rock or Mt. Diablo. Lots of them are not great, but they're generally fine for top rope anchors. There are several common reasons for spinning hangers, especially in sandstone where top ropes are set from different directions. Generally speaking, failure is unlikely with larger modern bolts being loaded in sheer in a top-rope situation, no matter how screwed up the placement is - but there are no guarantees.
As for who maintains anchors, the short answer is they are not regulated in anything approaching a formal way. The ASCA (www.safeclimbing.org) has been around since '97 and replaces a ton of bolts, mostly in the western U.S. at this point. Local climbing groups, lots of climbing guides, and experienced locals are usually the ones who maintain anchors. But, I'd say a majority of bolts in the U.S. are not maintained at all. In parts of Europe, people are actually paid to maintain bolts, but in the U.S., even the ASCA doesn't currently get enough donations to send bolts to everyone that needs them, let alone run a solid non-profit operation (no one gets paid anything, even for all the tedious office work, and since I do most of that but am out climbing and replacing bolts all the time, we go weeks between even answering email or picking up letters).
It's important as a beginner (and for experienced folks too) to remember that bolts are ALWAYS a gamble. For big modern bolts, the chance of failure is very low. For old rusty 1/4" bolts, the chance is relatively high. But ANY bolt can be screwed up on installation, have manufacturing defects, get hit by rockfall or lightning or who knows, etc. Climbing is dangerous, you can die, and if you blindly trust bolts you're playing a lottery. The thing is that if the bolt is big and shiny, you've got good chances, better than you do driving to the climbing area!
For more info on bolts including lots of reprints from old Climbing and Rock & Ice bolt articles, go through the Bolt Info section of www.safeclimbing.org
Greg (Director, ASCA)
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drkodos
Jun 10, 2003, 7:28 AM
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Registered: Dec 21, 2002
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In reply to: Replacement ..... has been done mainly by the first ascentionist who placed the bolts originally.
Most times this is not the case.
At most major areas, some of the great lines were put in by visiting climbers.
Francois Legrand is not hanging at Smith replacing bolts.
Nor is Porter Jarrod all that busy replacing the manky excuses for bolts he peppered most of Eastern Kentucky with.
Many First Ascenionists see the cliffs as some men see virgins.....to be conquered. Once the cliff face had been conquered, they move on to another area.
There is an excellent group called ASCA that is selflessly going around replacing/upgrading bolts. They need more support.
Lately I see even the Rags such as Climbing have begun to realize something needs to be done.
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apollodorus
Jun 10, 2003, 8:07 AM
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Registered: Feb 18, 2002
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I just got off a wall where we pulled some old bolts and redrilled for new/big/bomber ones.
The buttonheads looked clean and not too rusty. When they were pulled out, the shaft near the heads were generally still clean. But, the rest of was rusty. They were usually hard to pull out, but a few of them simply popped after a few taps of a piton driven under them.
The most insidious aspect is that the corrosion damage was inside the hole, where you can't see it. This is why big stainles bolts should be used to replace existing 1/4" stuff.
The ASCA (http://www.safeclimbing.com) is the website you should check out. Old bolts are like old dynamite: perfectly safe when new, but over time have become time bombs.
I'll never look at old bolts the same way. They're like fixed RURPs: Aid only and ready to go.
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