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hammer_
Jun 19, 2003, 4:36 AM
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I find the more I climb the less gear I take, It does not matter if I have beta or not. In the post "your rack" and others like it I see that people say they have like 20 cams, 2.5 sets of nuts, 14 shoulder slings, 4 double length, hexs, tricams, and bla bla bla.. are these people free climbing with all this gear, aiding or what?
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crackaddict
Jun 19, 2003, 4:44 AM
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I am kind of the same.
I only bring what I need.
But I am on of those who have a lot of gear.
I do have 34 cams and a few sets of nuts. But I also have multipe size of the same for climbing in Indian Creek and doing aid routes.
Rarley almost never do I carry it all up a free climb.
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hammer_
Jun 19, 2003, 4:44 AM
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I guess its the gear they own not their racks. So what when in your area do you have on your rack on a typical multipitch day? (please state area)
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kevlar
Jun 19, 2003, 5:00 AM
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I personally like a big rack...but then I only take a set of nuts with me on any climb I do 8)
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phreakdigital
Jun 19, 2003, 6:17 AM
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Aid climbing and trad bigwalls take a lot more gear than do one pitch trad climbs...and in general you run into places where you need more gear or more specific types of gear...so really as many of us know...you can never have enough gear.
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dirtbag
Jun 19, 2003, 7:19 AM
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Going light is good...but sometimes desert cracks require big racks. Rock type seems to be a major issue on the size of rack required. Some of those perfect dessert rock splitters require only three or four cams...over and over and over again.
You gotta double up on a lot of sizes cowboy, or ya gonna get hosed.
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trenchdigger
Jun 19, 2003, 7:19 AM
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Ya know, it's funny... I've only just started climbing and i own nothing more than some shoes, chalk, and a harness. But I fish a lot (and have fished for a long time) and I see exactly the same thing. When I was first getting familiar with ocean and bay fishing, I'd bring a ton of gear. Stuff I knew worked and stuff I wanted to try. And I'd use a lot of it.
But as my skills improved, I found I only really used certain pieces of my arsenal. Pieces I knew worked well in a lot of situations. Pieces I was comfortable with. And I'd always throw in a few new lures to try out, but I knew what worked and I had honed my skills on, had confidence in, and could use in a variety of conditions.
I think the same holds for climbing... The more you hone your skills, the more you learn what your weapons of choice are and how to use them to their full potential. If you know how to use your favorite tools to their full potential, you won't need a rack full of gear.
Good thread...
~Adam~
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ricardol
Jun 19, 2003, 7:29 AM
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dont you just love the routes where you need to haul the big ass cams -- just for one placement on one pitch ...
hehe --
-- ricardo
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traddad
Jun 19, 2003, 1:52 PM
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Some of the places I've climbed (like the White Tanks) are walls of broken granite with few continuous or consistant cracks. I tend to carry a lot of gear on these because I don't know what the hell I'll need. On more consistant cracks (like the Forks) I might be more inclined to pare the rack down severly because I can see what and how much I need from the base of the climb. But then.....I'm the kinda guy who will, given a good stance and a big rack, slam in two equalized pieces in one spot just to know I have a bombproof placement SOMEWHERE in the pitch.
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dirtineye
Jun 19, 2003, 2:27 PM
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Climbing a single pitch chalk highway with the beta for each and every piece you need is not much of an adventure.
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traddad
Jun 19, 2003, 2:39 PM
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Troll.....ZING (sound of six foot fish taking bait).
It's always an adventure. Life's too short and there are too many time sucking commitments vying for your time to eschew a particular type of climbing for purity's sake. I LOVE "adventure climbing" but I rarely get to do it. A one pitch, rattley finger crack will have to suffice until then.
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bandycoot
Jun 19, 2003, 2:40 PM
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I try to bring 1 set of cams to the size I think I need, maybe 4 extras and one set of 9 nuts. Then I have 9 slings/draws of various length. This seems to work well for me on most multipitch climbing I've done since I started racking like this. I too have downsized the rack I carry from being way too much extra crap. It's pretty nice not carrying all that crap! It definitely came with experience though.
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pico23
Jun 19, 2003, 4:42 PM
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standard rack for me barring any beta or visible features (like a 4 in wide crack) is:
1 set cams from green alien to yellow camalot (no duplicates 10-11 cams)
1 set tricams from .5-4.0 (possible duplicates of the pink and red)
1 set of nuts from 3-13 BD
.5 set of nuts from 4-9 BD
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rockprodigy
Jun 19, 2003, 4:53 PM
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I think the better you get, the more comfortable you should be with less gear. However, on a reasonably difficult rock climb (5.10 and up for me) skimping on the rack, is not a way to save time. In that situation, I climb faster because I'm not as scared. On 5.9 and below, however, I will go with quite an anemic rack...10 cams and 10 nuts or so.
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hammer_
Jun 19, 2003, 5:30 PM
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I usally climb with almost 1 set of DDM nuts, #5,9,12 smilleys, 8 cams 0.5 to 3.5, 2 small tri cams, 1 #7 hex for luck, 1 screemer, 6 trad draws, 3 shoulder length slings and a couple rps. Although I don't lead 5.12 trad or anything this seems to work for most moderate routes.
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dirtineye
Jun 19, 2003, 5:58 PM
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(feeding traddad some line, letting him run)
Time on the rock is good time. What's your hurry? Purity is not at issue. And it ain't an adventure if you know what's coming and somebody told you exactly what pieces to take and where they go.
Besides, you bought all that gear, you should enjoy dragging it around. And placing as much of it as possible.
Climbing light is for mountaineers, and what do they know? They think freezing their fingers and toes off is great fun.
(swallow the bait, swallow it)
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floridaputz
Jun 19, 2003, 6:02 PM
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There are a lot of things to consider when racking up
1) Pitch length, natural or bolted anchors. For example, now that I have a 60m lead rope, I like to run pitches together. Of course I take more gear on my rack then. (How many times has the typical trad leader reach the belay with almost nothing left to set up the belay) Tell the truth !
2) I don't use the same gear everywhere. I.E. Looking glass N Carolina, The Gunks, have mostly horizontal gear placements so I use TCU's & FCU's. (just one example)
3) Alpine Rack. Going high, light and fast ? many runners (I always take many runners on any climb) 1 set of nuts & maybe 1 or 2 cams
But I generally like to have a little extra rather than too little, But I'm also an old fart and don't really want to die now that I can actually afford gear !
Many more situations exist that require rack changes, and many opnions that are different. I do what I like.
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traddad
Jun 19, 2003, 7:50 PM
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BAM!!! (sound of “DuPont spinner” going off next to my head)
Rock time IS good time. Don’t get me wrong, I like big racks :twisted: and after the heli-evacuation and subsequent death at the Forks a couple weeks back (due at least partially to pulled cams) I’ll probably sew up pitches like Betsy Ross. HOWEVER, after humping WAY too much gear up to Granite Mountain (Prescott) I vowed to pare my rack down before I was made an honorary Sherpa.
As for adventure…..part of the adventure is the possibility of failure. That possibility comes in one pitch AND multipitch sizes. I find it quite an adventure greasing out of a basalt off-fingers crack with the nearest bolt 40 miles east.
Glub Glub….(floating to the surface)
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tanner
Jun 19, 2003, 8:28 PM
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I use a small rack, But I think its just because I'm a poor student. I having the right gear is important for sure! I have seen a few climbs I would have loved to have done but had not enought big gear for example.
here is my Rack for Sqamish multi-pitch and craging
Cams-BD .5 & 1 (just 2 cams people)
Tricams- pinkx2 redx2 bluex1 (Oh, how I love the pink one)
nuts- BD 3-13 x2 in mid sizes ( The guy at the store gave me extra)
Lots of slings ( lots of tree's on the easy stuff)
draws- 5-10
lockers-6
nonlockers-6
Well I might break down and buy more cams
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dirtineye
Jun 19, 2003, 9:19 PM
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AHHH (the hook is set!)
I have a friend who swears sherpa is nepalese for "hey you carry this".
It is important to start out a difficult climb with as much gear as you can stand up with on your gear sling. Then, if ou can't pull a move, you can blame it on the extre weight. Carrying excessive amounts of gear , if you can get away wiht it, is a good way to impress your viewing public. WHen you climb somehting they cant' if you weigh less than they do, they say, well if I weighed ___ , then I could do that too, but then you hold out your rack and say, oh well I had this handicap. EVen better is walking up to a scrawny ssport climber and saying here hold my rakc a sec, and watching them blache as they stammer out, you carry all this up the climb? and you say, yeah, doesn't everyone?
Sew it up, yes good thinking. Need mores gear for that for sure.
Falling is not failure, it is another opportunity. Fear of falling is failure. EEK, I've been around Arno too much LOL! Seriiously, check out Arno Ilgner's new book, The Rock Warrior's Way. (end shameless plug)
Must practice catch and release....
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brutusofwyde
Jun 19, 2003, 9:40 PM
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In reply to: 1) Pitch length, natural or bolted anchors. For example, now that I have a 60m lead rope, I like to run pitches together. Of course I take more gear on my rack then. (How many times has the typical trad leader reach the belay with almost nothing left to set up the belay) Tell the truth !
The truth:
I wail and whine "NOW what do I do??"
No tag line. Not surprising, since my original plan was to recon the crux, with minimal gear.
"OFF BELAY!"
I am on a blank face just above a crux roof on Hawk Dome in southern Yosemite. Standing on a foothold. If I fall at this point, I will crater at the base of the climb 60 feet below.
Using my teeth and a free hand, I pull up enough slack to send a loop down to the ground. where Nurse Ratchet clips in some slings, some stoppers, some water and a bolt kit.
Half an hour later, clipped into a brand new bolt, I go back on belay and finish the pitch.
Gadzooks! 5.10b FA 16 June 2003
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petsfed
Jun 19, 2003, 9:59 PM
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Even for what I bring (1 set of nuts, half a set of cams, half a set of hexes) I think I bring too much. Mostly because of what I climb, I rarely place more than 5 pieces on a 100 foot pitch. I like to run it out, what can I say? The key is that for the most part, I don't protect until I think I'm going to need it (or the rope needs a rope guide). But honestly, 2 1/2 sets of cams is excessive. 1 1/2 sets of nuts is excessive. Anything more than a set of nuts and a set of cams and you are doing bigger stuff than the average weekend cragger you claim to be.
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dirtineye
Jun 19, 2003, 10:16 PM
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Double ropes RULE.
Hang on one, haul on the other. You are never really out of gear on doubles hehehe.
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brutusofwyde
Jun 19, 2003, 10:42 PM
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In reply to: Double ropes RULE. Hang on one, haul on the other. You are never really out of gear on doubles hehehe.
nothing to hang from
no place for gear
even a belay meant a groundfall
dont want to go there again
skairt
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punk
Jun 20, 2003, 3:06 AM
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Basically the more inform you are of the route specific gear the smaller the rack will be also the longer the approach is the lighter the rack gets I will say pro up to 2.5- 3 is mandatory almost on any rack doubles on 0.4 to 2 with a dozen or so of slings QD and two double slings as a basic rack than u add/subtract more stuff as the rout dictating
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