|
nalo
Jul 27, 2003, 7:55 PM
Post #1 of 20
(7605 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 8, 2002
Posts: 37
|
Does anybody know about the origins of rock climbing?? When did it begin, where? Does anybody care? I do :!:
|
|
|
|
|
flyinghatchet
Jul 27, 2003, 8:31 PM
Post #3 of 20
(7605 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 24, 2002
Posts: 742
|
I hope you care alot if you want to find out anything...I don't have the patience for something that long.
|
|
|
|
|
jgill
Jul 27, 2003, 10:29 PM
Post #4 of 20
(7605 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 18, 2002
Posts: 653
|
Here's a good reference book for free climbing history in the USA:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0899973205/qid=1059344483/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/103-5345158-1707065?v=glance&s=books
|
|
|
|
|
sargentrock
Aug 1, 2003, 3:14 AM
Post #5 of 20
(7605 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 5, 2003
Posts: 10
|
I have to agree with jgill, Wizards of Rock is the most complete history of free climbing in the USA I've read.
Sarg
|
|
|
|
|
bvb
Aug 1, 2003, 3:20 AM
Post #6 of 20
(7605 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 3, 2003
Posts: 954
|
In reply to: Does anybody know about the origins of rock climbing?? When did it begin, where? Does anybody care? I do :!:
if you want to learn about the origins of rockclimbing, you're going to have to go back way farther than john muir. rockclimbing was in it's infancy in the 1700's in europe; by they late 19th century they were going full-bore; by the early 1900's guys like paul pruess were on-sight free-soloing 2,000 foot 5.7 alpine rock routes in the dolomites. way, way core.
|
|
|
|
|
addiroids
Aug 1, 2003, 4:13 AM
Post #7 of 20
(7605 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 11, 2001
Posts: 1046
|
Appollodorus:
Thanks a ton for that link. I just read the whole thing and I think it was written very well. Much more was done in Europe than just in the USA. I do like Pat Ament's book, but that history from Bigwalls.net is awesome. Thanks again. And respect the difficulty that those hardmen were doing in hiking boots with manila ropes.
TRADitionally yours,
Cali Dirtbag
|
|
|
|
|
moabbeth
Aug 1, 2003, 5:14 AM
Post #8 of 20
(7605 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 22, 2002
Posts: 1786
|
The cover of Wizards of Rock...is he sitting atop higher Cathedral spire with El Cap in the background???
|
|
|
|
|
epic_ed
Aug 1, 2003, 5:55 AM
Post #9 of 20
(7605 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 17, 2002
Posts: 4724
|
That's definitely El Cap in the background. The slope of the east ledges, N.America wall is clearly visible, and the grouping of trees at the base of the routes near the Trip. Not that I have about a 1000 different photos at every possible angle of the Captain on my PC. :roll: Just a tad obsessed.
John and Tom -- mucho gracias for the links. I'm a huge aficionado of climbing history and will have much to keep me busy with those sources.
Ed
|
|
|
|
|
gunkiemike
Aug 1, 2003, 12:54 PM
Post #10 of 20
(7605 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 1, 2002
Posts: 2266
|
Not very observant are you? There's a forum on this site dedicated to this very topic!
|
|
|
|
|
vegastradguy
Aug 1, 2003, 6:00 PM
Post #11 of 20
(7605 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 28, 2002
Posts: 5919
|
yes, it's Royal Robbins sitting on one of the cathedrals (can't remember which one, though). i have this book, it's outstanding. it was my souvenir i picked up at Wilson's East Side on my Yosemite trip.
definitely an outstanding book!
|
|
|
|
|
watersprite
Aug 1, 2003, 6:04 PM
Post #12 of 20
(7605 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 21, 2003
Posts: 1601
|
and what about the Anasazi? DId they go somewhere or just die? Talk about climbers - they lived on cliffs and climbed everyday...
|
|
|
|
|
bsperes
Aug 1, 2003, 6:06 PM
Post #13 of 20
(7605 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 29, 2000
Posts: 292
|
my answer is this, there have always been boulders and there have always been walls and chances are people were climbing them long before gear was invented, probably before the written word was invented
|
|
|
|
|
gbschmitt
Nov 12, 2003, 6:39 PM
Post #14 of 20
(7605 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 31, 2002
Posts: 80
|
In reply to: But that history from Bigwalls.net is awesome.
I agree it is a good article but it's more a piece about useof technology in climbing than the history of climbing itself. As such it fails to mention that the idea of climbing rocks for pure sport without artificial aids was developed in the late 1800s in Elbsandstein, Germany. People like Oscar Schuster, Rudolf Fehrman, American Oliver Perry-Smith and Fritz Wiessner (who later exported the free climbing idea to America) made scary free ascents while the rest of the world was toiling with pitons, ladders etc. Their achievements are astounding (5.10 was climbed in the 1920s) and these climbs remain test pieces until today.
|
|
|
|
|
jgill
Nov 25, 2003, 3:49 AM
Post #15 of 20
(7605 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 18, 2002
Posts: 653
|
In reply to: addiroids wrote: But that history from Bigwalls.net is awesome. I agree it is a good article but it's more a piece about useof technology in climbing than the history of climbing itself. As such it fails to mention that the idea of climbing rocks for pure sport without artificial aids was developed in the late 1800s in Elbsandstein, Germany. People like Oscar Schuster, Rudolf Fehrman, American Oliver Perry-Smith and Fritz Wiessner (who later exported the free climbing idea to America) made scary free ascents while the rest of the world was toiling with pitons, ladders etc. Their achievements are astounding (5.10 was climbed in the 1920s) and these climbs remain test pieces until today.
I cannot agree entirely with this statement. The "rest of the world" was not quite as unsophisiticated as you imply. The period 1880-1900 saw a parallel development in the British Isles, particularly the Lake District. Phenomenal climbers such as Owen Glynne Jones, Oscar Eckenstein, Dr. Joseph Collier, and others were energetically pushing the limits of free-climbing forward. They rarely used pitons, and only began using ropes after about 1884. They also created bouldering during this time - I have found no evidence of similar efforts in Germany during the same time period.
|
|
|
|
|
sargentrock
Nov 25, 2003, 5:21 AM
Post #16 of 20
(7605 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 5, 2003
Posts: 10
|
John:
You'll have to agree that it is very difficult to find anything written in English about the Elbsandstein, Germany. And although I agree the English were climbing at a high standard in the 1880's, from what I have been able to find the climbers in the Elbsandstein (Oliver Perry-Smith) were the first to go beyond 5.9. Would you agree?
|
|
|
|
|
the_climber
Nov 25, 2003, 6:10 AM
Post #17 of 20
(7605 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 9, 2003
Posts: 6142
|
Well, you see... you have to go back a ways... way back... before Cro Magnum, before Archaic Homo Sapiens, before Australopithicus, back to a time long long ago, where cats had BIG TEETH and we weren't at the top of the food chain. Back then there creature with long arms, stong fingers, strong dextrous toes and a hunch that even a French bell ringer couldn't compair to... and then you have: Prehistorica climbinggoda!
:lol:
|
|
|
|
|
jgill
Nov 25, 2003, 6:46 AM
Post #18 of 20
(7605 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 18, 2002
Posts: 653
|
I think I recall reading that Perry Smith did some of his hardest climbing there about 1906 - 1913. I'm not a climbing historian, so I don't know when he went beyond 5.9 . As for the British (where are you guys? You should be answering these questions) in 1896 Jones was climbing at least Very Severe(mild), but I don't know precisely what was going on over there during 1906-1913. I assume standards had moved a bit higher. Someone should ask Kerwin Klein of CU-Berkeley. He's doing some research along these lines. I'm more interested in the history of bouldering. And I do intend to go to the (German language) old journals about that. Haven't done that yet, though.
Time for bed, for this old man 8)
|
|
|
|
|
sargentrock
Nov 25, 2003, 5:34 PM
Post #19 of 20
(7605 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 5, 2003
Posts: 10
|
Sorry, I was a bit fuzzy on the dates, but my impression is that climbers obtained "recorded" 5.9 (and 5.10) in the Elbsandstein first. The frustrating thing is that there is so very little written about this area in English. I can't even find a guidebook!
By-the-way, John: I know a little bit about the bouldering history of Riverside, Calif (Paul Gleason, Phil Haney, Rob Muir) and even have some old pictures if your interested.
|
|
|
|
|
gbschmitt
Nov 25, 2003, 5:51 PM
Post #20 of 20
(7605 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 31, 2002
Posts: 80
|
Here is the timeline how the difficulty of early free climbing in Elbsandstein developed, with year, grade, and (name):
1848 - 5.4 (Abratzky)
1893 - 5.5 (Schuster)
1902 - 5.6 (Kießling)
1906 - 5.7 (Hünig)
1906 - 5.8 (Perry-Smith)
1910 - 5.9 (Mattähus)
1918 - 5.10a (Strubich)
1921 - 5.10b (Kunis)
I'm not sure if Perry-Smith ever climbed 5.9 in Elbsandstein, he left Germany in 1914. But given that he was one of the best climbers of the era, he probably made an ascent of the Mattähus route.
|
|
|
|
|
|
