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utkukaynar
Oct 14, 2003, 2:28 PM
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Hi everyone,
I'm planning to buy a shell jacket to be used for all season alpine climbing which must be relatively cheap compared to the whole XCR and similar stuff, preferably around 200 bucks.
So far I have looked for;
Marmot Precip
Sierra Designs PeakBagger
Patagonia Supercell
Patagonia Microburst; which is relatively expensive.
I kinda stuck on the precip, and I want to ask is it possible to use it for all season alpine use, without getting soaked??
I also wait for your comments on other items on the list..
Good climb,
Utku
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stick233
Oct 14, 2003, 2:37 PM
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i own a peak bagger and bought a precip for my (ex)gilfriend... i love the peak bagger, it always comes climbing on multi pitch with me. the only prob i have with it is that the waist is a bit short. but matched up with the peak bagger pants, it is a real solid combo.
the precip is nice, i think it's a tiny bit heavier. good choice though, either way.
peak bagger may be a bit light in cold weather
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fear
Oct 14, 2003, 2:45 PM
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I've been hooked on Precip now for about 2 years with great results. The only downside is the durability of the nylon. For rock abrasion they aren't great, but nothing really is. And at $100, you could buy one a year and still end up ahead of an expensive shell.
A couple weeks ago in the Precip jacket/full zip pants combo we were in 4-50mph blowing rain on Mt. Washington on a technical rock route for hours. I did get damp but not soaked, I'd say they performed great. Also climbed Rainier once with these in a heinous windstorm (but dry and in summer) a year or so ago with no problems. The hood is great.
For the next Denali trip(in June) I'm going with the Precip jacket/pants combo for a shell. Light is right..... Beats my 4 pound NF full suit!
-Fear
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Oct 14, 2003, 2:45 PM
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utku --
if you're looking to go fast and light the precip would certainly work for you. bear in mind, however, that it is not designed as a heavy-duty piece. it is VERY light, becomes more brittle as the temp drops, and would be prone to fail if you're seriously abrading it or snagging sharp rock with it.
as far as keeping you dry, no jacket is going to keep you dry if you're working like a beast of burden and sweating up a storm. the waterproof/breathable crap the gore-tex people have been feeding us from the beginning (and others are doing now) is just that: a load of crap. while it might well be waterproof and breathable waiting out a rainstorm while sitting on a lawn chair, once you start moving around all bets are off.
if you understand the advantages -vs- disadvantages of the precip jacket, and it works more towards your favor, go for it.
regards,
geo
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jiadar
Oct 14, 2003, 3:24 PM
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Precip all the way. Pair the precip with a windproof fleece underneath and you will be set for just about any conditions!
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melekzek
Oct 14, 2003, 4:22 PM
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utku,
I recently started using precip, and it performs a lot more than I expected. I might not wanna try to use it in "extreme" conditions, and would prefer to have a "hardcore"/ more durable jacket, but in 90 percent of the time lightweight is the way to go. You can put it in your bag just in case, it literally doesnt occupy any space, excellent. I usually left my hardcore jacket (linosport expe, if you know what I mean) because it takes all the space when I wanted to try go light.
Durability maybe an issue, but I am sure it will last for a couple seasons, and I got it for 60$ on sale, which is dirtcheap.
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chalkbag
Oct 14, 2003, 5:13 PM
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If you are looking for the crappiest climbing jacket design ever, go with Sierra Designs PeakBagger.
Seriuosly, are they the first guys ever to come up with the idea of pockets in a climbing jacket? No?? So why on earth are the hand pockets placed exactly, perfectly, ideally right where the harness belt is? And what's the deal with those pockets being "zippered ventilating"?? Like, it got a little hot, let me just open those pockets... Oops, hey, where did all my stuff go? BTW, the zipper on those pockets is from top to bottom, which makes it absolutely impossible to close them when the jacket is tucked underneath the harness.
And if you think the chest pocket will work, you are right, it will - as a Pez dispenser. The ingenuous design ensures that the bottom part of the really deep chest pocket gets squeezed by the harness belt too. So the moment you open it, the built-in spring action conveniently throws the contents right in your face.
I used the jacket during my trip to Peru this summer. Within a single day, I dropped my radio twice (it miraculously landed on my feet both times) and my camera with a nearly completed roll of film (landed some 700 ft below me according to the topo) - all three times they just slipped out of various pockets. Needless to say, I was rather frustrated - I never dropped a thing from the HellyHansen jacket I used for the previous four years.
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melekzek
Oct 14, 2003, 5:24 PM
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In reply to: let me just open those pockets... Oops, hey, where did all my stuff go? .... landed some 700 ft below me according to the topo ....
now that was funny
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j_magnuson
Oct 14, 2003, 5:44 PM
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Depends on what kind of weather you're going to be in. Because it is a waterprooof/breathable shell, it's great if you're out in the rain (not the best time for alpine though, watch out for rock), but get's really sweaty if you start working hard in it. I used mine once last winter for a snowshoeing day hike to fend off the wind in place of my Driclime shirt, which my wife used, and it was not ideal. If you are going to be in cold, dry weather, and by dry I mean powder snow but no wet heavy flakes or rain, and working hard get a jacket that is more breathable.
In looking for other options you can go light and give up durablity or go heavier and give up the weight savings. I have a Patagonia Krushell (on sale right now at Alaska Mountaineering and Hiking for $107 or $170 from patagonia) which is the perfect lightweight softshell. It breathes, repels a light rain, and is only 15 oz. I don't know about the long-term durability, but I don't baby it and it works great. If you want to go a little burlier and still keep the price down look at stuff from Lowe Alpine.
Hope this helps,
Josh
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alwaysforward
Oct 14, 2003, 5:47 PM
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Patagonia. Unless you're other options include Arc'teryx or Mountain Hardwear, always go Patagonia. Permanent DWR, great fit, great durability. Precip is OK, but both Patagucci shells are way better.
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fear
Oct 14, 2003, 5:56 PM
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In reply to: Patagonia. Unless you're other options include Arc'teryx or Mountain Hardwear, always go Patagonia. Permanent DWR, great fit, great durability. Precip is OK, but both Patagucci shells are way better.
"Permanent DWR" .... LOL.... ummm... ok...
-Fear
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fredo
Oct 14, 2003, 11:28 PM
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Personally I like my PreCip Anorak. I have not taken it out in super harsh climbing conditions. But have done all day multi pitch trad routes in light mist/snow and with proper layering have not had a problem staying warm or dry. my $0.02
Rock On!
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rongoodman
Oct 15, 2003, 12:41 AM
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Don't forget Cloudveil. I looked at the Snaz jacket and pants today and they looked nice--light, but more rugged than the Precip.
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jimdavis
Oct 16, 2003, 4:53 PM
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Waterproof breathable jackets function best when there is a serious difference between the temp inside the jacket, and on the outside of the jacket.
So they breathe best in the cold. When your backpacking in summer conditions, they're not going to breathe that well.
I chose to buy a NF Various Guides shell instead of the Precip because i was afraid of taking a fall on it snowboarding or climbing and ripping it to pieces.
It's waterproof/ breathable effectivness will wear out faster as the Precip is a coating instead of a laminate. Gore-TEX, HyVent, Marmot Membrain, ect will all last longer as they are laminates.
If your not worried about the decreased life span, the decreased durablility, and you really want to cut down on weight...the Precip would be a good choice.
Jim
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outdoormikeg
Oct 16, 2003, 5:10 PM
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Another option is to go the softshell route...highly wind and water resistant but breathe really, really well.
It all boils down to the question:"Am I planning on getting stuck in a serious downpour for a long period of time?"
If you are not planning on getting stuck in an Amazonian type rain storm that could last for days then softshell might be the way to do. Great for those highly aerobic activities that aren't done in a complete downpour. Snow just rolls right off of them and even a light rain will probably not soak through.
If you are looking for something to withstand a constant downpour for a long time the hardshell(GoreTex, Precip, Cloudburst2.5) is the way to go.
Softshell - Cloudveil Ice Floe (the king of softshells), Arc Teryx, Mtn Hardwear
Hardshell - everyone makes one but I like the Cloudveil Drizzle Jacket, more durable than the Precip but still quite light...
Just my $0.02...
Mike
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mike
Oct 16, 2003, 5:10 PM
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I have 2 sets of precip in my family gear pile. Had them about two years and they have been used extensively in all seasons. They got "wetout" pretty quickly, but didn't leak through. One pair of pants is torn pretty bad by briars. Good stuff, but I have gone back to multi layer gortex for conditions where holes and wet are serious concerns as opposed to aggravation. It's heavier, but gortex is relatively cheap now.
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lacer
Oct 16, 2003, 8:33 PM
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I wear my precip yr round witha fleece under It works out pretty good, but the nylon rips easily and for skiing it's not the gretest because you slip and slide alot wearing that when you fall compared to another MEC shell that I have
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alwaysforward
Oct 16, 2003, 9:20 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Patagonia. Unless you're other options include Arc'teryx or Mountain Hardwear, always go Patagonia. Permanent DWR, great fit, great durability. Precip is OK, but both Patagucci shells are way better. "Permanent DWR" .... LOL.... ummm... ok... -Fear
They coat each fiber with DWR before the product is made as opposed to coating the product in DWR. Go put your Patagonia jacket in the washing machine for 24 hours, dry it and wear it in rain. It will bead watr like the first day you got it. Try that with a Precip.
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jimdavis
Oct 20, 2003, 4:38 PM
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That means it's a laminate, not a coating. Gore-TEX is a laminate as well, but it sure isn't permanite. Laminates last longer than coatings, but not forever.
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alwaysforward
Oct 20, 2003, 5:30 PM
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In reply to: That means it's a laminate, not a coating. Gore-TEX is a laminate as well, but it sure isn't permanite. Laminates last longer than coatings, but not forever.
DWR is separate from your basic waterproofing, whether that be a laminate or a coating. Any good technical jacket you own, whether it is waterproof or not is most likely DWR coated. BTW, in case you jumped into this conversation thinking that the world stops and starts and your convenience and in fact have no idea what your talking about, DWR stands for Durable Water Repellency. It's why your jacket beads water.
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mtnrsq
Oct 20, 2003, 5:47 PM
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I have the Precip jacket and full zip pants. They are fine if you are not in high abrasion situations.
I have worn the pants over a Mammut soft shell pant while in a full driving storm on Rainier and they worked like a charm.
The Krushell is nice as well but my better half would kill me if I got yet another shell. Cloudveil has some nice pieces as well.....
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jimdavis
Oct 21, 2003, 9:34 PM
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alwaysforward wrote:
In reply to: BTW, in case you jumped into this conversation thinking that the world stops and starts and your convenience and in fact have no idea what your talking about, DWR stands for Durable Water Repellency. It's why your jacket beads water.
:idea:
Do a little research before you try and flame someone.
:idea:
There are differences between laminates and coatings, that's why some jackets are lighter and wear out quicker(coatings) and some last longer and are heavier (laminates.)
DWR can be re-applied. Like i'm doing tonight on my Bean's GoreTEX and NF HyVent jackets. Nikwax makes TXDIRECT, which you can spray or wash in to your jacket to restore it's DWR finish.
The real waterproof breathable material is what's under the DWR :idea: , and that can not be re-applied. So, laminates like GoreTEX will last longer than coatings of Conduit or other various wp/b coatings. Once they wear out, all the DWR in the world won't keep you dry.
So before you go running your mouth thinking you know everything about waterproof breathable materials; stop and think. Cause you look like an idiot when you try and flame someone and then get proved wrong.
:oops:
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jhump
Oct 21, 2003, 9:46 PM
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Absolutely, it will work. It does have its downsides though. Most notably, the hood will not fit over a helmet well. The breathability at high intensity is also inadequate. All the garment MUST do is stop the wind...the rest is gravy. Don't buy into the marketing hype (shell gear does not necessarily equal goretex). A much better (IMHO) option is to select a windproof/water resistant windshirt with a quality hood. Wildthings Epic Hooded Windshirt is my choice in shells. It was just on sale for $60.
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chalkbag
Oct 21, 2003, 9:51 PM
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In reply to: It was just on sale for $60.
Where?? I want one :roll:
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alwaysforward
Oct 21, 2003, 10:14 PM
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In reply to: alwaysforward wrote: In reply to: BTW, in case you jumped into this conversation thinking that the world stops and starts and your convenience and in fact have no idea what your talking about, DWR stands for Durable Water Repellency. It's why your jacket beads water. :idea: Do a little research before you try and flame someone. :idea: There are differences between laminates and coatings, that's why some jackets are lighter and wear out quicker(coatings) and some last longer and are heavier (laminates.) DWR can be re-applied. Like i'm doing tonight on my Bean's GoreTEX and NF HyVent jackets. Nikwax makes TXDIRECT, which you can spray or wash in to your jacket to restore it's DWR finish. The real waterproof breathable material is what's under the DWR :idea: , and that can not be re-applied. So, laminates like GoreTEX will last longer than coatings of Conduit or other various wp/b coatings. Once they wear out, all the DWR in the world won't keep you dry. So before you go running your mouth thinking you know everything about waterproof breathable materials; stop and think. Cause you look like an idiot when you try and flame someone and then get proved wrong. :oops:
Where did you prove me wrong? The DWR is what makes your jacket BEAD water. It's not what makes it waterproof though, and I never said that.
*sarcasm*Thank you for letting me know about Nikwax*sarcasm ends*. One thing you may look for after you have reapplied your DWR is how long it lasts. And then compare that to how long the DWR finish will last on a Patagonia product, which was the original point of my post.
I'm not even going to respond to your mention of reapplying a laminate.
And really you never said anything else in your post. Oh, btw, to actually and specifically prove YOU wrong, Conduit (an example of a coating you used) is Mountain Hardwear's Waterproof Breathable Laminate.
If your not educated than let yourself learn from the expertise of others.
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