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holygecko
Nov 18, 2003, 3:16 PM
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I just ordered my first pair, I have already been told that they won't break in for awhile that is not what this post is about. My question is stiff or flex crampons, and what type of Ice/general mountaineering will I be limited to with each. also waterproofing is a must I know, but what about seam sealing? also any beta on the marmot work gloves would be nice.
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capn_morgan
Nov 18, 2003, 3:50 PM
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I have not worn Makalus, but if they are nearly as stiff as my leathers, they dont flex an awful lot. most rigid crampons have vertically orientes rails(Trango Harpoons, foot fangs) which tend to collect snow like its thier job. Anti Bot covers supposedly fix this. Most semi rigid crampons ( G-12, M-10?,BD sabertooth, Bionics) are much better at leaving the snow where it belongs. With a stiff boot, I dont feel that one or the other affects walking much. The semi rigid ones might tend to be wider and mroe stable..but thats just a thought. Both kinds will climb vertical ice well with a pari of stiff boots. Rigid crampons with the vertical rails can also be less stable for walking downhill in snow/sluch as the rails cut through the snow....assuming that they have not yet accumulated a huge snowball. Nikwax aques water proffing works well on boots with rough/ suede like finishes.
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deleted
Deleted
Nov 18, 2003, 3:58 PM
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flex or rigid? depends on what you'll be doing. if mountaineering is your bag, choose a flexible crampon that wil allow you a more natural gait due to its ability to work with your boot's rocker. if more vertical pursuits are in your future, go with a rigid crampon that will act as a solid platform while you're standing in your front-points.
in either case, the crampon is designed to work with the boot. for example: a mountaineering boot that "walks" well, paired up with a flexible crampon; a technical boot with a stiff sole with a rigid crampon.
bear in mind that (generally speaking) while a rigid crampon will work well on a soft boot, the opposite will not always apply to a flexible crampon and a stiff boot. there is a [i:ee179c1962]third[/i:ee179c1962] category of crampons that combine the best of both flexibility [i:ee179c1962]and[/i:ee179c1962] rigidity, but these tend to be more specialized (read: [i:ee179c1962]pricy[/i:ee179c1962]) rigs.
most of the time you'll simply have to compromise -- not everyone can afford to have three or four boot/crampon combinations in their quiver, right? [i:ee179c1962]choose the rig based upon what type of use you'll be putting it through the most[/i:ee179c1962]. if you buy a stiff boot and rigid crampon because you think you'd like to [i:ee179c1962]someday[/i:ee179c1962] do a frozen pillar, you'll be disappointed during the 99% of the time you take them on mountain hikes (and vice versa).
insofar as waterproofing ... if you're talking about your gloves, "waterproof fabric and factory sealed seams" makes great marketing copy, but in the real world gloves will leak and your hands will get cold. buy yourself some seam sealer (get the tube with the needle applicator -- not the dauber) and drip that stuff into every needle hole. a liberal spraying of scotchguard on the rest of the glove a couple of times per season is usually good enough to repel most water.
sure, your gloves will look butt-ugly, but contrary to what your mall-shoppin', poser friends might want you to believe, it's not about looks. think [i:ee179c1962]function[/i:ee179c1962].
if you're talking about leather boots, nikwax seems to be pretty popular. being old-school, for [i:ee179c1962]my[/i:ee179c1962] money nothing works as well as good old bee's wax (sno-seal) and a warm hairdryer.
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holygecko
Nov 18, 2003, 4:46 PM
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thanx for the info guys :wink:
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adamtd
Nov 18, 2003, 7:23 PM
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Having owned two pairs of Makalus I can honestly tell you they really aren't that stiff once broken in. I use Charlot Moser S-12s with my Makalus and have been very happy. I suggest a semi-rigid crampon, either strap on or step-in. They are stiff enough for steep snow routes up to 60 degrees. I have used them for some vertical, but they really aren't stiff enough for extended vertical ice. I also wore my Makalus for a backpacking trip in the wind rivers. They performed very well. If when breaking them in, you have problems with blisters on the heel or rubing on your achilles, consider getting teh heel cup stretched. It's a simple remedy for a problem I had with my Makalus.
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alleybird
Nov 18, 2003, 7:39 PM
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On the Makalus.. my boyfriend bought a pair at least 6 months ago.. they were bad to break in... he wore them in the shower, in the river, and anywhere he went, and still does. He just now has them to wear the toe will bend. Just be patient, and they will break in.
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sancho
Nov 18, 2003, 7:50 PM
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If your makalus fit well, breaking them in won't be so bad as the six months someone mentioned. Just wear them on some local hikes and you should be fine. All I have ever used on mine for waterproofing is snow seal and my feet have stayed pretty dry.
On crampons, I have used a pair of step-in sabertooths and find the pair to work very well. I have done lots of general mountaineering, been to the top of Orizaba and did a bit of vertical ice with the set. Great choice for all around use (do look into insulated "super" gaitors though...) Other people I know have used S-12s and liked that pair as well. What ever you do though, get the anti-bolling plates for your crampons!
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pico23
Nov 18, 2003, 8:18 PM
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What everyone else said seems pretty on the money.
If your doing steep ice a rigid crampon with vertical rails would be adequate but they tend to ball up easier than flat rails of a mountaineering crampon. Antibot plates do help but they wear out quickly. This season I'm gonna use duct tape instead of plates.
The limits of the makalu are you aren't going to want to be standing around in them for very long since they are uninsulated so I look at them as more of a mountaineering boot then a technical boot. I like mine a lot and they seem to fit my foot well which is rare. I've only used them for summer hiking, and winter/spring snow climbing. They aren't very waterproof and take forever to dry out so they aren't a great boot if you are going to be out for a few days.
As far as stiffness the makalus really arent that stiff. Once you've worn plastic boots you redefine the word stiff.
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j_magnuson
Nov 18, 2003, 8:27 PM
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Here's what I know, the Makalu's I have worn for the past two years have been good boots. They are not really winter mountianeering boots, but they do all right for a few warmer trips and are great in the summer. I would definately go with a flexible crampon for these boots! A rigid would pop off each time the boot flexed, and this boot will flex a bit more than most mountaineering/ice boots. I use a BD Sabretooth and it fits very well. I have seen other people's remarks elsewhere that this is a particularly good combo, and I would agree. As far as limitations go, all but the steepest ice will be off limits to you and with a crampon like the Sabretooth, I think the boots would limit you long before the crampon. The break-in time on the Makalu's was negligible with thick socks and better insoles.
Now, as for the Marmot work gloves, I have only tried thee on the store. They look durable, but heavy. I don't know that you need that much leather on your glove unless you were going to abrade the hell out of it on rock/ice. Additionally, for rock/ice type of climbing, there was too much insulation in them. I thought a better choice would be the Marmot Exum Ridge glove, or the Cloudveil Ice Floe. The Ice Floe ice more of an ice glove, but plenty light.
Hope this helps,
Josh
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