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moeman
Nov 20, 2003, 10:20 PM
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Ok, so I know this thread has been done countless times, but I'm about to plunk down a crapload of money on trad gear, so I want some advice. Also, I've decided to just go all out with this; for the first time ever, I have $1000+ that I can use for whatever I want, and I've decided to get something useful (a rack) before it slowly starts to seep away for useless junk. So far i've bought almost nothing, but heres what I'm planning to buy:
PRO
6 Camalots: sizes 0.5-3 (maybe 3.5?)
6 TCU's: sizes 00-4
12 Huevos: full set (1-13)
2 Tricams: Pink, Red
Other Stuff
15 Draws (shoulder length tripled, BD spectra slings and Enduro biners)
Bluewater 10.2 mm 60m dry rope
2 cordellettes
Black Diamond Half Dome helmet
Gear Sling
Nut tool
So, what'd ya think? I will be climbing some long multi-pitch in Seneca this coming spring, if that helps any. Comments? Should I getmore nuts and tricams? Less cams? Hexes? Also, what so I need doubles in?
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robmcc
Nov 20, 2003, 10:37 PM
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Check the ratings on those TCUs. I smooshed one at Seneca. The small ones are only good to 4.4 kN, IIRC. It was the blue or purple one, I don't remember. Tomorrow I'm replacing it with an alien or micro-camalot, which cover the same range but with about 2x the rating.
I had hexes for Seneca and liked 'em. I'll tell you in 2 weeks if I still like 'em there. I'm sure I will. Never used cams over #2 at Seneca. I have the 3 and 4 now, so I'll see if I use 'em.
I didn't have doubles of anything and it seemed to work well enough.
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cedk
Nov 20, 2003, 11:01 PM
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I've never climbed at Seneca but generally speaking for free climbing if I had my choice between carrying the 2 smallest TCUs or another #1 or #2 camalot and 4 or 5 medium to large sized hexes I'd take the camalot and the hexes.
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climberjim
Nov 20, 2003, 11:08 PM
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hey insted of the tcu's u should go with the aliens they are the best out there for small sizes and up to like 2 inchesif u got the set of camalots and a set of aliens instead of the tcu's then thats more than enough. Aliens are my most favorite of all cams .......... make sure to get plenty of webbing and slings and lockers to but hope this helps
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charley
Nov 20, 2003, 11:10 PM
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I use hexes alot at seneca. That may be cause the old guys that taught me to lead didn't use mechanicals much. I also trust the hex more. Alot of the ppl I climb with have an extra half set of nuts usually different brand.
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braaaaaaaadley
Nov 20, 2003, 11:14 PM
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Dont buy bd spectra slings or the enduro's for that matter. Buy sewn slings made of climbers spec nylon and pair them up with ovals to make a trad draw. A lot cheaper and more durable than the spectra/ enduro combo. I have some spectra slings from bd and they frey awfully quickly and are expensive compared to the nylon ones that are a lot cheaper.
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cgranite
Nov 20, 2003, 11:14 PM
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Aliens are have mushy trigger and the cam heads stop responding to the retraction after awhile. the TCU's are bomber and durable. they also have cam stops so the won't invert like the aliens. Go with the TCU's, their great.
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one900johnnyk
Nov 20, 2003, 11:20 PM
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if you want to climb a lot of the tens at seneca i would recommend some micronuts as well. don't forget the extra biners you will need. i also recommend replacing at least one of those cordellettes with a webolette... have fun, there's nothing better than buying gear. i just copped a set of tcu's and they are pretty sweet..
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madmax
Nov 20, 2003, 11:36 PM
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I favor the Frankenstein rack: some of everything. Every cam has its pluses and negatives.
While I love Aliens, they definitely deteriorate faster than TCUs. The micro Camalots are really nice but expensive.
You need to find a "bro deal." For $1,000, you should be able to get more gear.
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caughtinside
Nov 20, 2003, 11:42 PM
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Yeah, listen to what max said. If you're going to drop that much cash at once, make sure you get a deal. Like free crap or 15 or 20 percent off the whole batch. You probably won't be able to pull that off at a big place like REI. Hit up a small store.
Oh, and get some lockers for yer anchors!
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moeman
Nov 20, 2003, 11:48 PM
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Ok, to clarify a few things:
The reason I'm getting all six TCU's is becuase I'm getting a package set uber-cheap
And Max, don't worry. I am getting everything at least 25% off or more :D
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njbourne
Nov 21, 2003, 12:02 AM
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Offsets are nice in the pin scars on older routes in Seneca.
Hexes are great in size 7-11. If you need more passive pro in smaller sizes just double up on your nuts.
Save some of that 1000+ dollars for a large pizza at The Porch.
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toejam
Nov 21, 2003, 12:15 AM
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Sounds right to me. I prefer my #1 alien to my .5 (BD), but use them both.
I have doubles in .5 thru 3 (BD). I rarely carry two 3's but usually carry the rest.
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brianc
Nov 21, 2003, 5:00 PM
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Sounds pretty much spot on to me. I personally like doubles in the #1 and 2 camalot sizes and doubles in the tri-cams but to each their own...
Do pick up the #3 camalot, don't know what level you're climbing at but it and the #4 (although to a lesser extent) are useful on many seneca moderates.
I like the Metolious cams in the smaller sizes. Hexes are great too - nothing like the cling-clang. Full set of nuts is a good start though you'll eventually start doubling up in there. Mine are a mish-mash of sizes and brands.
And definitely some free biners (locking and non) for anchors and such. Couple of double-length slings would be helpful as well. I'd get a mix of "regular" draws (either pre-assembled or homemade) and tripled-sling draws rather than all triples but that's just me.
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gentry
Nov 21, 2003, 5:11 PM
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i would say when buying a rack to go cheap. so many great deals out there these days..my rack has maybe 16 cams ...set of nuts..set of brass...set hexes... and 3 of the smallest tri-cams. i climb all over the country and have fallen on a 20 dollar cam before. i trust my cheap ass cams..my rack didnt cost anymore than 400 dollars. i started with the 5 cam set from rockempire and used passive until another sweet deal on cams came around. i managed to buy 11 of those cams for 200 dollars.
Sure BD is awesome and the range is great and if you have the cash to just throw it down on whatever than awesome, but a rack doesnt have to be as expensive as it used to be. i think you can get 6 cams at sportextreme right now for 135.00 maybe. barrabes sometimes will have the cheapest cams ever Salewa's and i have fallen on those over and over again.
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gravitytheory
Nov 21, 2003, 5:16 PM
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Don't buy a rack. There was thing thing on the O'Reilly factor (the funniest "news" on television) the other day where this woman said that Americans are breast obsessed and it is causing lots of psychological problems for people. Just stick with what you got and be happy with it.
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yomomma
Nov 21, 2003, 5:21 PM
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lucky you.
yeah, I'd get the 3.5 camalot. Hexes in the mid to large sizes would be a nice addition, as would another 1/2 set of nuts on the large end. Make sure you get enough carabiners for all that gear. If I had it to do over, I'd get all keylock biners for my straight gates, either spirits or positrons.
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capn_morgan
Nov 21, 2003, 6:13 PM
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Id personally go for a full set of curver hexes, metolius or WC. I really like the small ones and use them alot more than nuts. More tricams too. At least 2 pinks if you plan on climbing int he gunks much :) i have placed 3 on one pitch before...without trying to. Northern mtn supply probably still has BD quickwire biners on sale, 2nds. like 5 bucks, light and great. Only thing i dont like wire gates for is racking..reg ocals for that. the mammut double lenght slings are great..thin so they can be duadrupled up easily enough for racking. not as durable as nylon though. Have fun..I recently did something similar...not quite as bad....its so much fun to stand there and say...id like one of those, 2 of those, one of those.....and dont forget to get tape to mark all your new toys/...hehe..great excuse to play with it :)
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fredrogers
Nov 21, 2003, 6:21 PM
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You make an important point that you're getting a deal on at least some of your stuff. Let's face it - TCU's and Aliens are both good - but if you can get one for dirt cheap then go with it. I know you said you're getting the TCU's as a set but I honestly never use the #00 or #0 TCU's. I keep them off the rack just for the sake of simplifying/lightening the load. There range is so limited and a nut will usually work in those types of placements.
Nut tool - usually not a big deal item for most people but I recently used Metolious' Freenut tool which has this nice palm protecter and a clip-in wiregate.
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sfclimber
Nov 21, 2003, 8:35 PM
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In reply to: Dont buy bd spectra slings or the enduro's for that matter. Buy sewn slings made of climbers spec nylon and pair them up with ovals to make a trad draw. A lot cheaper and more durable than the spectra/ enduro combo. I have some spectra slings from bd and they frey awfully quickly and are expensive compared to the nylon ones that are a lot cheaper.
I have several spectra slings and have been happy with them for certain usages since they are lighter and provide less clutter when used at belay stations. However the fraying point is accurate. The other major drawback is that they are not suitable for friction knots like a prusik, kleimheist or autoblock for things like ascending or backing up a rappel.
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sfclimber
Nov 21, 2003, 8:59 PM
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In reply to: PRO 6 Camalots: sizes 0.5-3 (maybe 3.5?) 6 TCU's: sizes 00-4 12 Huevos: full set (1-13) 2 Tricams: Pink, Red Other Stuff 15 Draws (shoulder length tripled, BD spectra slings and Enduro biners) Bluewater 10.2 mm 60m dry rope 2 cordellettes Black Diamond Half Dome helmet Gear Sling Nut tool
Missing from your list is two short (4 ft.) strands of accessory cord (6mm or 7mm) for use as prussiks when finding yourself having to ascend a rope without ascenders or for backing up your rappel with an autoblock.
Of that rack the things I stopped using first were the hexes, then the tricams (though I occasionally miss them). The things I'm most happy to have are the second set of cams (.5-2 inches) and a webolette (as opposed to the cordalette) as there are a lot of 3 bolt anchors in Yosemite that lend themselves well to the shorter length of the webolette which is faster to tie than a cordalette.
I have BD nuts which are identical in shape to the Huevos and I love them. I also have the Metolius curve nuts, but I find that their sharper profile makes them catch and snag more frequently when trying to place them.
Finally, I just bought a 50m rope after years of dragging up the extra 10m of a 60m rope that almost NEVER gets used. Most climbs were put up with a 50m rope in mind and only occasionally, if not rarely, will the 60m rope allow you to link pitches. The end result is dead weight and extra time spent pulling up the 10m of unused rope pitch after pitch after pitch... Also, a small pulley can be a handy gadget for pulling up the excess rope before putting the second on belay. Likewise for pulling up the trail line.
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robmcc
Nov 21, 2003, 9:05 PM
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In reply to: I have several spectra slings and have been happy with them for certain usages since they are lighter and provide less clutter when used at belay stations. However the fraying point is accurate. The other major drawback is that they are not suitable for friction knots like a prusik, kleimheist or autoblock for things like ascending or backing up a rappel.
I read this more or less everywhere, but I just don't find it to be true. I've ascended a rope on multiple occasions on spectra slings, or most of the time, one spectra sling and a gibbs ascender. I've never had a problem getting spectra to grip the rope more than adequately.
Don't take that as encouragement to do it. Maybe it's a catastrophically bad idea. I'm just expressing my puzzlement that it seems to work so well for me and spares me carrying extra stuff just for that purpose.
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cracklover
Nov 21, 2003, 9:10 PM
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Sounds fine, in principle.
Good choice on the huevos. I wish I'd bought 'em myself.
I'd hold off on getting another half a set of nuts. Over the next year or two, take every opportunity to play with your partner's nuts to see what turns you on, and then buy what you like.
I'm assuming you've tried on the helmet and it fits you well. I bought the BD Half Dome and the d@mn thing never fit me well. Fortunately(?) it broke all by itself in my pack, and I now use a different style.
Also, I hope you've used TCUs. I bought a few when I got started, and then discovered I hate 'em. Since then, I've done everything I can (short of giving them away) to get 'em off my rack. It's just a matter of taste, I know, but I'd pay twice the price for an Alien.
GO
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robmcc
Nov 21, 2003, 9:12 PM
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In reply to: I'd hold off on getting another half a set of nuts. Over the next year or two, take every opportunity to play with your partner's nuts to see what turns you on, and then buy what you like.
Getting to hear stuff like this is reason enough to climb. Forget the enjoyment of actually getting out there and climbing. "Play with your partner's nuts to see what turns you on."
Ha!
Rob
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