|
joe
Nov 29, 2003, 10:47 PM
Post #1 of 10
(3470 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 22, 2003
Posts: 897
|
|
|
|
|
|
evan
Dec 1, 2003, 3:49 PM
Post #2 of 10
(3470 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 10, 2002
Posts: 32
|
Hey Joe,
My thoughts on your query...
Hmm. I'd suggest not visualizing grabbing your gear being akin to being zapped by several thousand volts of electricity. I think you're best to delay and dissasociate, and then take the time to rationally examine the scenario, as opposed to automatically associate gear grabbing with something bad regardless of circumstances.
I don't believe you want to start to categorize any kind of behavior as "good" or "bad," various technical faux pas aside. Leave your options open. There may come a day where you do have to grab your gear in order to prevent a dangerous outcome, (i.e., decking into the ground, bouncing off of a ledge, swatting away a persistent bird).
If you're getting pumped or feel unbalanced when clipping, take the time to breath and readjust your feet. Often, some subtle readjustments are all you need to buy those extra seconds of extra energy to make that clip. Besides, if you get into the habit of stopping and observing your habits in one realm, (i.e., clipping) then it should carry over to other habits while climbing.
Good luck,
Evan
|
|
|
|
|
maculated
Dec 3, 2003, 4:27 AM
Post #3 of 10
(3470 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 23, 2001
Posts: 6179
|
Joe,
Who says it is so wrong to grab gear? I think you need to look at the issues causing you to grab said gear rather than how to keep yourself from doing it. I climb cleanly when I'm confident, and I have no problem French Freeing something that I am really being challenged by if I am confident I won't pull the move first try. It still keeps me leading, it keeps me being challenged, and it allows me to get some false confidence enough to pull the move. I know that if I'm regularly feeling like I need a 'gear save' then I am on something I'm not ready for. That said, I also don't care if I get a flash or red point, or whatever,
BUT: WHY do you grab the gear??? WHY do you put emphasis on the "flash?" Once you figure that out, you might be able to figure out how to stop the gear grab.
|
|
|
|
|
andy_lemon
Dec 6, 2003, 9:21 PM
Post #4 of 10
(3470 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 7, 2001
Posts: 3335
|
Gear grabbing is unacceptable, especially if we are talking about sport routes. However, I have been known to "accidentally" step on that hex down below my feet. :twisted:
|
|
|
|
|
fracture
Dec 7, 2003, 12:11 AM
Post #5 of 10
(3470 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 13, 2003
Posts: 1814
|
In reply to: Joe, Who says it is so wrong to grab gear? I think you need to look at the issues causing you to grab said gear rather than how to keep yourself from doing it. I climb cleanly when I'm confident, and I have no problem French Freeing something that I am really being challenged by if I am confident I won't pull the move first try. It still keeps me leading, it keeps me being challenged, and it allows me to get some false confidence enough to pull the move. I know that if I'm regularly feeling like I need a 'gear save' then I am on something I'm not ready for. That said, I also don't care if I get a flash or red point, or whatever,
I think Arno might potentially argue that you are preventing yourself from doing some moves free by not giving 100% effort to them because you *think* you are "not ready". And more importantly, that you are cheating yourself out of the learning that you would get by simply giving 100% effort to the move (whether you make it or not).
Telling yourself that you're "not ready" for some move X is negative self-talk. You may be able to do move X, and you may instead fall while attempting to do move X. But you should aim to focus all your attention on the move, not on unimportant things such as whether you are "ready".
It's slightly different if you are talking about french freeing a whole route, with that being your intention. But making the decision to aid it while in the middle of a move you intended to attempt is not what you want to be doing (provided fall consequences are good, etc).
-jrd
|
|
|
|
|
jt512
Dec 8, 2003, 11:01 PM
Post #6 of 10
(3470 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 12, 2001
Posts: 21904
|
In reply to: Joe, Who says it is so wrong to grab gear? I think you need to look at the issues causing you to grab said gear rather than how to keep yourself from doing it.
As I see it the Warrior's Way is a process. Following the process leads to not grabbing the gear when the fall would be reasonably safe. If you've fully accepted that the fall is safe before entering into the risk, then this leads to a mindset in which you are indifferent as to the specific outcome -- falling or climbing through the risk. When your attention wanders to comfort-seeking thoughts, you redirect your attention to possibilities, to what you can give to the effort, and to seeking comfort in the risk rather than the destination.
Grabbing the gear when the fall would be reasonable suggests to me that you did not fully accept the fall in the preparation phase -- at least that is what I observed yesterday, when I grabbed a draw.
-Jay
|
|
|
|
|
maculated
Dec 11, 2003, 6:26 PM
Post #7 of 10
(3470 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 23, 2001
Posts: 6179
|
I do suppose my advice would change if you are talking about solely sport routes. Didn't realize that Joe was talking about sport.
|
|
|
|
|
unabonger
Jan 30, 2004, 9:14 PM
Post #8 of 10
(3470 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 8, 2003
Posts: 2689
|
In reply to: Gear grabbing is unacceptable, especially if we are talking about sport routes.
Not only is it acceptable, it can be necessary, especially if we are talking about sport routes.
If I'm about to take a first run on a route that is my project, I'm fully prepared to do whatever I think is most efficient to make progress toward a redpoint. Sometimes that means I'm looking at a 15 foot fall and then using valuable strength to climb or batman back up. Hard on the rope, hard on the belayer, hard on my body, and reduces my strength for figuring out the moves I just fell off. THAT's unacceptable, because it might mean the difference between cracking all the beta, and not...
Working a project above your current limit takes strategy. Wasting energy by not grabbing the draw in this case, merely to hold yourself to some heroic ideal is to me, ridiculous, and counterproductive to project strategy.
Obviously, grabbing the draw can be counterproductive--if you give up on a redoint burn because of fear--of falling, or fear of failure, that's not good for strategy either. Taking the fall in this case may help overcome fear of falling that interferes with future attempts. Todd Skinner and Paul Piana on Salathe climbed up and took repeated big air falls to overcome that fear.
UB
|
|
|
|
|
jt512
Jan 30, 2004, 9:30 PM
Post #9 of 10
(3470 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 12, 2001
Posts: 21904
|
In reply to: In reply to: Gear grabbing is unacceptable, especially if we are talking about sport routes. Not only is it acceptable, it can be necessary, especially if we are talking about sport routes. If I'm about to take a first run on a route that is my project, I'm fully prepared to do whatever I think is most efficient to make progress toward a redpoint. Obviously, grabbing the draw can be counterproductive--if you give up on a redoint burn because of fear--of falling, or fear of failure, that's not good for strategy either.
This leads into a subject that I'd been toying with broaching, namely, that while working a project you might do seemingly non-warrior things for efficiency that you wouldn't do while on a redpoint or on-sight run. The trick is not to let grabbing draws and "taking" while working a route enforce bad habits that spill over into your other climbing.
-Jay
|
|
|
|
|
unabonger
Jan 30, 2004, 10:10 PM
Post #10 of 10
(3470 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 8, 2003
Posts: 2689
|
In reply to: This leads into a subject that I'd been toying with broaching, namely, that while working a project you might do seemingly non-warrior things for efficiency that you wouldn't do while on a redpoint or on-sight run. The trick is not to let grabbing draws and "taking" while working a route enforce bad habits that spill over into your other climbing.
A good subject. I believe nothing is less warrior-like than the false pride that leads to the belief you must fall no matter what. In the instances I'm talking about, the choice is clearly either: Fall, or grab the draw.
If the choice is: Make the move and possibly redpoint, or grab the draw, then the decision of course is different.
So the crux lies in recognizing the choices available. From the perspective of a hard route and my first time or two on it, I'm dogging up a route to wire it into submission, and there's usually no benefit to taking the plunge. Later in the project process, there may be good reasons to take the fall--even intentionally letting go sometimes.
Along the same lines, consider some very difficult routes that have "dogging bolts". They are so close together that clipping them on a redpoint burn would be a preposterous waste of energy. (Leave aside the ethical implications of blatent overbolting for a minute) But on the first burns to figure beta, they are used as a convenience to work moves. I watched Sharma skip 1, 2, maybe 3 bolts on a burn on Realization the season before he sent it. That's pushing the bounds of what is usually necessary to skip after dogging use but it speaks to his high level of commitment and concentration!
UB
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
