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okinawatricam
Jan 5, 2004, 11:03 PM
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I am in the process of writing a Guide book and could use some advice. This is my third, but I need some general consensus:
Photos or Topos to show routes??
I will be listing times that the wall is in the shade, whether or not the wall can be climbed at high tide, anyone seen any cool symbols for this?
Do I list the bolt count on the routes?
Do I list first Accents? Where? With the route or in the back?
Any other advice.
This is a coastal area.
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mtengaio
Jan 5, 2004, 11:27 PM
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It helps me if there is an overview photo of the area/wall and a good topo because not all routes are visible from a photograph. On a topo you can just draw in the main features of a route/wall. Guidebooks that try to put in where the bolts are located on a photograph aren't very successful. The best guidebook I've seen is Alan Watts' Smith Rock book.
As for first ascents – unless the routes are really worthy of it, I wouldn't bother.
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tweek
Jan 5, 2004, 11:35 PM
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I find it very helpful to see how many bolts there are and on the picture where they lie.
I also GREATLY appreciate a detailed description of the anchor (if there is one) and if there are rap rings/ quicklinks or not. If it is a walk off a detailed description of how one would do this and the peril they face is welcome.
GPS locations are a wonderful help.
Good luck
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philbox
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Jan 5, 2004, 11:40 PM
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Photo topos are great. You should also list the routes starting from where the access track meets the wall be that either starting at the left or the right and progressing in an orderly fashion across the wall. Keep all the areas in order as well, say start from the north and progress towards the south with the different areas.
Make sure that you have really good access maps with any disclaimers attached such as don`t jump this fence cos the farmer will shoot you, you know stuff like that. Cross referencing between the seperated areas is good too. Definitely include the FFAists name with the climb and try to ensure that the quality of the routes and grades are consistent with the consensus of a few climbers that frequent the area.
I would include a short history of the area but don`t give a history of each and every climb otherwise you`ll end up with a tome as large as a Websters Dictionary. It is not a problem to point out highlights of some epics on some of the climbs and definitely spice the guide up with frequent humour. I reckon a wide margin for climbers to make their own notes would be invaluable.
Definitely chuck in some smiley face representations of how good the route is or otherwise. Make sure that a very well worded disclaimer is included.
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okinawatricam
Jan 6, 2004, 2:49 AM
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So far so good, thanks
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boltdude
Jan 6, 2004, 3:53 AM
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Depends on the area.
Photos can be nice, but are not needed in many cases, are harder to reproduce well, and you can often get a lot more info in the same space without them. It really depends on the access - photos are very useful finding routes that you have to approach from a ways off. If you're along the coast, and have defined access points (i.e. parking lots, trails), then photos are probably overkill.
Likewise, bolt counts are not needed at many sport areas, unless the route is unusual. In other words, if most routes are 6-10 bolts, with a few 11 or more, then just say "standard rack of 10 draws" at the start, and note any routes that are longer.
I think FA info, and historical notes/stories, are really cool. On the other hand, if the same folks put up every route at the crag over a 2 year period, it's pretty boring, and you can just say "FA all routes on this wall: Jane & Joe Dude, 2001-2002". So, again, that depends on the area.
The other nice thing about the FA info is you get a date on when the bolts were installed. Add in dates bolts were replaced too, that can be really important, especially in coastal environments (they note that in Thailand guidebooks - also noted in some Swiss guidebooks).
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rockfax
Jan 7, 2004, 1:05 PM
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In reply to: I am in the process of writing a Guide book and could use some advice. This is my third, but I need some general consensus: Photos or Topos to show routes?? I will be listing times that the wall is in the shade, whether or not the wall can be climbed at high tide, anyone seen any cool symbols for this? Do I list the bolt count on the routes? Do I list first Accents? Where? With the route or in the back? Any other advice. This is a coastal area.
Download this
http://www.rockfax.com/miniguides/how_to/index.html
It's a guide to writing guidebooks.
It's a sea cliff you are writing a guide too? Is access by rappel or can you walk round?
Either way most important is a plan map of the top of the cliff with all landmarks and trails drawn in. Photo-diagrams of the cliff top would be useful to.
If you can see the routes easily I would use photo-topos rather than drawn topos as they are far easier to produce and are especially relevent for sport routes where all you have to do is find the base of the route and follow the bolts.
SYMBOLS...we have symbols for sun exposure, tides - high and low, rappel approaches, seapage-dampness, windy spot etc.....about 40 or so symbols in all that describe the nature of the routes and crag characteristics. Give me an email if you would like to use them.
BOLTS - yes count them and include them in the description.
FIRST ASCENT DETAILS - Yes and include them in the route description where they belong (a smaller font size than the route description). Not only does it show respect to the efort of the first ascensionists but many climbers are interested in who put the route up that they are doing. It also provides an interesting historical record.
cheers,
Mick
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rockfax
Jan 7, 2004, 1:10 PM
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Also these may help.
Some of the ROCKFAX symbols here
http://www.rockfax.com/databases/index.html
A guide to a sea cliff area here
http://www.rockfax.com/pembroke/index.html
Lots of our free MiniGUIDES here
http://www.rockfax.com/miniguides/index.html
Mick
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brianinslc
Jan 7, 2004, 4:06 PM
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In reply to: BOLTS - yes count them and include them in the description. FIRST ASCENT DETAILS - Yes and include them in the route description where they belong (a smaller font size than the route description). Not only does it show respect to the efort of the first ascensionists but many climbers are interested in who put the route up that they are doing. It also provides an interesting historical record.
Concur. I like havin' a bolt count as folks squeeze stuff in at later dates and sometimes its hard to figure out what is where. FA info is super good to have, especially dates for the reasons Greg stated. I think part of the purpose of a guidebook is to showcase the history of an area, including the FA folks. Smaller font is good for that stuff, but, you can never get too much history in a guidebook. If there's a good story related to an FA, include it! Otherwise, it might be lost to the sands of time. Also, sometimes interesting to include anecdotes on how the climbs were named, etc. Does also show that the author has spent some time in the saddle there as well.
I like a quality rating system, even if its not perfect. Good to know what the classics are, as most of us have limited time and at least want to sample some of the plums.
Brian in SLC
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rockprodigy
Jan 7, 2004, 4:26 PM
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FA's - Yes...put them in the text with the route, not hidden in the back.
PHOTOS/TOPOS - if the rock is complicated and heavily featured (like quartzite or limestone), topos will be impossible to draw and decipher, photos work much better. If the rock is clean, and there are long distances between features, like Indian Creek, or Yosemite, topos may be better because you can distort the drawing to fit in more detail.
QUALITY RATINGS - A must! If people go to a crag with no quality ratings and get on a crappy route, they'll blame you, and they may not come back.
BOLT COUNTS - I used them in my guide. I think it is a helpful routefinding tool, especially if more routes may be added after the guide is published.
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dirtineye
Jan 7, 2004, 6:03 PM
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The stories about what happened on the FA, and that often have something to do with the name of the climb, would be a nice thing to include.
For example there is a climb a friend of mine put up in georgia, called "Party Rock". we were walking along the wall one day and he told me that this was the climb "Party Rock", then pointed to the ground at a large rock and said, " And THAT'S the party rock!". Then he told how on the FA the leader had accidentally pulled off this big chunk and gave everyone a good scare.
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okinawatricam
Jan 8, 2004, 6:34 AM
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I originally thought the history section to this book was gong to be easy, but I have found some old hardware that I am now tracking. I agree that history is important in the guide, and I like having the FA name with the route.
Bolt COunt: You win, I will count them.
Tops and photos here are going to be the tuff part. I have taking several picture and can't seem to get good shots. Topos are to complicated for this place.
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funkness
Jan 8, 2004, 6:45 AM
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Absolutely include the F.A. info. Leaving this out would be a mistake.
I wont buy a guidebook that is missing such important info.
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diodesanddihedrals
Jan 8, 2004, 6:52 AM
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For me, I buy the book with the best visual. It's a pain finding a route on a poorly drawn sketch. My personal favorites are pictures of walls with dotted lines showing the routes. Solid lines hide features sometimes. Anywho...
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okinawatricam
Jan 8, 2004, 6:57 AM
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My goal is to write a good guide book. Since it will be the newest and most up to date on the island, I don't have to worry about competition. If someone else want to write one, I would gladly retire from it. It's also going to be in English++++
I will do my best to make the book easy to use.
One thing I do that I would like to see in other guides is give driving directions with milage included. I hate the parking areas being described as "the obvious pull out on the left." without any other direct.
Better is From this intersection, drive 5.3 mile to....
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wlderdude
Jan 9, 2004, 1:18 AM
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What I look for in a guide book:
1. Good Dirrections to the Parking lot, the wall and the route.
2. Good Dirrections to the Parking lot, the wall and the route.
3. Good Dirrections to the Parking lot, the wall and the route.
4. Good Dirrections to the Parking lot, the wall and the route.
5. Camping information.
6. Local acess issues.
7. Good Dirrections to the Parking lot, the wall and the route.
8. Fun stoies about the area.
9. Good Dirrections to the Parking lot, the wall and the route.
10. Good Dirrections to the Parking lot, the wall and the route.
I would never miss the FA info if it wasn't there. If I had to chose between a description of how to find the parking lot, the wall and the routeroute or who climbed it first, well, why did I buy the book?
Photo or topo? Yeah, it depends on the rock. See what works best.
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okinawatricam
Jan 9, 2004, 2:43 AM
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Dude I guess we see eye to eye on what is important in this guide.
The guide that I am working on is going to require explicit directions to the walls. The cliffs here often have a mile of rock, but only 30 meters of it is climbable.
To make matter more completed, the road signs are in Kanji (Japanese), so the direction have to be very persise.
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