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ginerbiner
Jan 13, 2004, 8:20 PM
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Broken hearts hurt. Break ups always, at some level, bring trauma. The sick anxiety-tickles in one's chest take turns torturing with the spontaneous conjuring of momentary scenes from the history book of the relationship. You still try to figure it all out: Why he treated you like he did, what did you do to prompt such behavior (most women attack themselves first, we can't help but scrutinize our part in it), who was he, why were you such a fool? Sometimes you may even think that the one who caused the pain, is the only one who can make the pain go away (if only, if only, maybe we, maybe we). Ya know, the process always begins with puking and flashbacks... Like a bad drug trip. It's actually a funny thing if you think of this in terms of sitcom value. But, it's you and you feel awful walking around in a constant state of WTF. So, you flip flop from self-pity, questioning your self-worth, history absorption, comic distance, anger, borrowing the strength of others, imagining this time next year (will it really come? will it be any better?). All this as we still manage to walk and talk, breathe and beat, work and play, raise kids and take care of biz. We can't eat, can't sleep, and our anxiety-ridden hearts race in pace with our baffled minds to the point of needing meds. Sometimes we enlist the help of a medicine man (aka transitional man, pain killer guy, etc). Blah blah blah. Same old story. Even I'm getting tired of it and I've gone through this and usually have a most sympathetic ear. The trick is to better choose the men to whom we give ourselves, to not totally hand ourselves over so damn quickly and easily, and have evidenceof a proven track record of a firm foundation of trust before giving your heart, rearranging your life, and just plain old giving and giving and giving (like we women tend to do).
Have you ever seen the movie Vanilla Sky? Not that great of a film except for two things: The TECH SUPPORT Scene and "We'll meet again in another life, as cats." Anyway, this guy (Tom Cruise) finds out that he is in some sort of suspended/frozen animation and programmed with a lucid dream to experience until he is brought back to life in the future. When the lucid dream program turns into a nightmare, he runs and runs and keeps on screaming for "tech support, tech support!" I say, "DITTO!" So, when meeting the man of your dreams in another life [as] isn't an option, and the dreamy program that you bought into has turned so bad that you want to scream out for help "TECH SUPPORT!! TECH SUPPORT!!," just remember that we all have choices to make and sometimes TECH SUPPORT comes in the form of assistance in helping you see that you do actually have a choice. Friends always help with this. Family *sometimes* help. Your guts, your wits, and ability to see the empirical evidence right there in the relationship with you inspite of the amazing chemistry and hopeful dreams helps you realize most of all. Dating is about data collection, my friend tells me. It's high time we pay attention to the data that is probably already there. Easier said than done, aye?
Only one relationship is supposed to last. All others are supposed to fail. In the meantime, be smarter about it. A friend of mine sent me a list of some things that make a man (or woman) loveworthy. Make your own list. It helped me, actually, to make a list - not of what qualities you want in a man (a man can exhibit great qualities with one woman and be a baaastard with another woman), but rather what conditions you want in place prior to giving your heart. I've been the master of just jumping right in, a forever hopeless romantic revelling in chemistry, but after this last relationship, whew, I'm cryin' out for TECH SUPPORT! I want to be smarter and able to see the writing on the wall before I... I think you ladies want to too. Try it.
Okay, here are a few conditions to be met prior to handing over my heart:
(1) If a man is brave enough to attempt to teach me how to drive a stick and is still crazy about me afterwards, then perhaps this man is worthy. Crap, a sitch like this was the beginning of the end of my first marriage!!
(2) If a man can hold a conversation with my Sicilian dad w/ his broken english for at least a 1/2 hour and ask him how he got that cool scar across his nose and not be afraid of him after he gets the answer, then perhaps this man is worthy.
(3) After I decide to make a snowman in the middle of the night 'cause I can't sleep and then I climb into bed with ice cold naked skin and try to cuddle, if a man wakes up and tries to sweetly warm me instead of screaming like a girl and getting mad at me for waking him up in such a cold way, then perhaps this man is worthy.
(4) He sticks around while I wait for the other shoe to drop. And while I stall, figuring this is too good to be true and are sure that he'll eventually mess up or turn into a troll, he just keeps getting better.
(5) He makes the relationship a priority.
(6) Our connection is so strong that I don't even have to ask myself this question.
Also keep in mind that in the subculture of climbing, we have additional criteria: must be a 5.12 climber, have big wall experience, whatever... However, keep in mind that if we give ourselves to an unworthy man, our climbing performance and enthusiasm may be adversely affected (so they have for me). So, climbing criteria shouldn't *really* be factored in as much as the *nature and character* of the man himself.
So, ladies, take a swig of tequila, light a candle or sit by the campfire, take a real look at this question as it pertains to your REAL life, and do the list. Post it on your frig or right here. And thanks for the PMs!
Here's to better choices in 2004... Cheers.
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rckclimbergurl
Jan 14, 2004, 4:03 AM
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I really hope I find a guy like that with most of the above statements being true!
My grade 5 teacher had an actual list of qualities that she looked for in a guy. If there weren't enough ticks there, he was outta there! Sounds kind of harsh.. but hey.. she's not been married for several years, and they just had a baby girl about a year ago. So I guess it worked for her!
Be smart out there. :)
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joe
Jan 14, 2004, 11:29 PM
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what a crock.
believe in yourself all you want, but you'll always fall for the self absorbed, beefheaded asshole with the V10 adulation skills.
you always do.
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calamity_chk
Jan 15, 2004, 12:17 AM
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wow, i wish that i could still see relationships that way. the fact of the matter is, they're entirely too complex to quantify with words.
i've had two relationships in my life that have met all of your criteria, except a marriage proposal in an aveeno bath - though, living together and marriage were both discussed as possibilities. however, as you can tell by the use of past tense here, neither of the relationships worked for a myriad of reasons that i still dont completely understand and have given up on trying to figure out.
this is what i've sorted out, though - people are unbelievably complex, so is life .. and when you combine the lives of two people, wow. personally, i'll be happy if i can find someone who just fits in with the rest of my life - a smart, fun, suave/sophisticated dirtbag with more gear that i can imagine who loves climbing, travelling, and other 'adventure sports' (what a cheesy name). until then, i'm pretty content to keep toodle-ing along dating whoever i want.
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calamity_chk
Jan 15, 2004, 12:21 AM
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when are they gonna fix the delete feature?
postcount++
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moabbeth
Jan 15, 2004, 12:37 AM
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In reply to: what a crock. believe in yourself all you want, but you'll always fall for the self absorbed, beefheaded asshole with the V10 adulation skills. you always do.
Except for the V10 adulation skills, unfortunately that tends to be true more often than not.
But take heart joe, I wouldn't date a plain ol' boulderer! :wink:
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ginerbiner
Jan 15, 2004, 4:24 AM
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oops! a double.
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ginerbiner
Jan 16, 2004, 1:27 AM
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oops! a double.
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ginerbiner
Jan 16, 2004, 1:55 AM
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Joe - And I got me another one of those!!! I'm hopeless but trying... You're right, you're right, I know you're right. It sucks, dud-n-it?
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moabbeth
Feb 18, 2004, 2:53 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: what a crock. No kidding. Is this a climbing website, or a bleeding hearts website? I've looked through the threads overall here in the Ladies Room, and I'm sorry, but they're whiney. Jeebus, girls, get some testicles and stop complaining. Skibs
Ya know Skibs, there's others here that feel totally otherwise. A whole lot. That is evidenced in when they took down the breakup threads and the sticky about it was filled with three pages of people overwhelmingly asking for them back within 48 hours.
Just cause YOU may be immune from having your heart broken doesn't mean the rest of us are that strong. We're not all members of the she-women man haters club. While we all climb, we're all still women and sometimes need to talk to others in similar situations that may involve life off the rock. I remember a post you put in Tracy's community thread a few months ago about a relationship issue she was having that was very very cold and unsympathetic, and others even told you that it bordered on cruel. While you may truly believe in what you're saying, it isn't making the person who posted originally suddenly feel stronger and more empowered cause another woman told them to STFU and be a MAN about it and that they're a worthless LOSER for "whining" about it. It just makes them feel even more crappy about themselves and makes you come across as cold, intolerant and totally out of touch with intimate man-woman relationships and the feelings that accompany them. Not healthy for them, not healthy for you.
And sorry but this forum would be PISS BORING without those threads. There's only so goddamn many "how do I pee standing up" or "does Prana make good clothes" threads I can read without falling asleep. At least the breakup threads have a little bit of passion, humanity and life behind them.
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maculated
Feb 18, 2004, 3:23 AM
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Oh, I'm going there . . .
Yup, I'm a mod, and probably the most active mod of this forum, but as you all know, I HATE the bleeding heart threads. I hate them because people will almost always regret what they say in them later on. People know people who know people. I got sighted this weekend as an RC.com user by someone. I've had people mention ascents I've done based on the ticklist i keep that ends up being reflected in my profile. I actually made a friend based on a single line in my profile. All this stuff carries into real life.
Anyone who knows me well enough knows also that I do have a lot of worry and pain invested in men, but am I going to post it all over the internet? Nah. I want all the hugs and kudos and advice that something like that would bring, but I also know that I am being read by lots of people that I personally know.
I've been on the Internet since Compuserv and AOL 1.0, I learned about this stuff the hard way. Once in a while I insert foot-in-mouth and I pay for it with, if nothing else, embarrassment.
Internet Messaging is what it's all about. I bleed all over there. :)
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maculated
Feb 18, 2004, 3:33 AM
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And because I'm stalling on stuff I should be doing, I'm going to reply to the original post, too . . .
The list is actually a great thing, it teaches you about yourself, your past, and your wants. As I've been getting more 'learned' about guys, I've seen my type change and eventually fall apart. It no longer is physicality that appeals to me immediately as much as connection.
In Plato's Symposium, Plato brings up the idea of Diotima's love ladder. Steps are as follows:
1. Lust over a beautiful person (physical)
2. Lust over all beautiful persons (physical)
3. Attraction to beautiful souls over beautiful bodies (mental)
4. Love for all people and their souls (mental/idea)
5. Love for ideas. (ideas)
Once you get to step 3, you're pretty well off . . .
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ginerbiner
Feb 18, 2004, 4:16 AM
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Dear Skibs,
Bleeding hands, bleeding hearts, bleeding vaginas... It all affects our climbing. Get real, sweetie.
Glad you are happy with your testicles. I don't want to grow a pair 'cause then I'd have to buy all new panties and I'm rather fond of my little lacey thongs. I'm quite happy with my vagina, thanks. What I got is what testicles were made to serve anyhow. :lol:
Oops! Can I say vagina here?!? :shock:
Peace out, babeage!
g.
p.s. Mac, I really like your list.
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deleted
Deleted
Feb 18, 2004, 4:34 AM
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oh, my!
oh, my, my, my! :oops:
where the [b:61d4403a95]hell[/b:61d4403a95] is [i:61d4403a95]the_pirate [/i:61d4403a95]when we need the ouzo!!??
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ginerbiner
Feb 18, 2004, 4:57 AM
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Ah ha!! Geo, I knew the thong thing would make you visit. A warm hello to you. Love the icey photo signature, makes me feel like I just brushed my teeth or ate a peppermint patty or something.
the_pirate: May I have some tea now? Decaff please.
After a long Valentine's weekend in Ireland me and my vagina are tired. Good night and sweet dreams everyone!
g
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moabbeth
Feb 18, 2004, 4:57 AM
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Nice gina....it takes A LOT to make geo blush!! :lol:
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ginerbiner
Feb 18, 2004, 5:01 AM
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Ah ha!! Geo, I knew the thong thing would make you visit. A warm hello to you. Love the icey photo signature, makes me feel like I just brushed my teeth or ate a peppermint patty or something.
the_pirate: May I have some tea now? Decaff please.
After a long Valentine's weekend in Ireland me and my vagina are tired. Good night and sweet dreams everyone! :D
g
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deleted
Deleted
Feb 18, 2004, 5:06 AM
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gina, gina, (va)gina ...
and to think it was [i:05b79d08bf]you[/i:05b79d08bf] who was scared of [i:05b79d08bf]me[/i:05b79d08bf] after reading some of my (admittedly obtuse) posts! how times change. :lol: :lol: :lol:
oh, and, i hope you and your, um ... [i:05b79d08bf]little friend[/i:05b79d08bf] recover from your trip to the emerald isle.
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maculated
Feb 18, 2004, 5:13 AM
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In reply to: Oops! Can I say vagina here?!? :shock:
Vagina vagina vagina.
::looks around::
Oh, right, that's my job to delete. Nope. Not gonna.
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ginerbiner
Feb 18, 2004, 5:14 AM
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Ah Geo! What can I say? I'm in a mood. Makes life interesting, these moods. Me and my friend are quite happy. Thanks for your concern :wink:
g
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deleted
Deleted
Feb 18, 2004, 5:17 AM
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just lookin' out for ya', g.
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the_pirate
Feb 18, 2004, 5:30 AM
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My, my...... good thing I brought the HANDLE of Ouzo tonight.
Pony up to the bar vaginas and testicles.
Time to get drunk and watch the bitch slappin'.
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deleted
Deleted
Feb 18, 2004, 5:35 AM
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i say, stout yeoman, two ouzos, if you please.
one for me and one for my, um ... [i:08a940c5b7]little friend[/i:08a940c5b7].
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