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chugach001
Feb 1, 2004, 9:16 PM
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I'm familar with the Garta Hart knot as a single-direction, self-locking knot and am wondering if it can be used as an autoblocker? If no one knows, I'll go out and take some protected falls and report back.
Thanks,
Jeff
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pixelguru
Feb 1, 2004, 9:54 PM
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I had to do a quick search on that one... came up with this:
http://www.rockandice.com/beta/beta.131.html
You're talking about using this to back up while rappelling right? If so, and if the knot works, I would say the drawback is... why? It seems to be adding extra hardware and complexity to an already simple solution. Just my 2 cents.
Looks like a really slick one-way knot for other applications though. I wonder how much holding power it has - poor-man's Gri-Gri?
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jimdavis
Feb 1, 2004, 9:55 PM
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Um, I'd say shell out the $20 for a Reverso. EMS has Trango b-52's on clearance for like $10 as well.
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dirtineye
Feb 2, 2004, 5:49 AM
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That looks like the garda knot or Alpine Hitch, and will not work as an auto-block.
It's a one way ratchet for lifting, not lowering.
YOu can put a sling in the two biners, attach two prussiks to your baleay loop, and hang onn the prussiks and ratchet up rope, stand up, slide the prussiks up, and repeat.
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crotch
Feb 3, 2004, 5:39 PM
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You are thinking of using it to bring up a second? I have wondered about this too. It seems to make sense. Try it out and let us know what happens. I would think that for live loads you might want to use 2 lockers.
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dirtineye
Feb 3, 2004, 6:31 PM
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In reply to: You are thinking of using it to bring up a second? I have wondered about this too. It seems to make sense. Try it out and let us know what happens. I would think that for live loads you might want to use 2 lockers.
THe alpine clutch ( AKA garda) does not go as well with lockers, because it works by pinching the rope between two oval biners. The biners need to fit closely together. The round cross section of the oval biner seems important for the rope to feed well. It would be very hard to have the rope come out of the biners if you set the system up correctly as given in the Fasulo rescue book. You can only go one direction with it, it's like a one way ratchet device. If you had to lower your second for some reason, that would be hard to do.
I've used the alpine clutch along with a sling and two prussiks as an ascender twice. IT works well in this application.
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zeus
Feb 6, 2004, 2:30 PM
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here in good old europe ;-) it's called the GARDA knot and is quite often used for rescue situations (ex: on glaciers). it works well BUT:
- you MUST (!!!) use two identical biners or it will not work properly.
- it works better with non locking biners, so it's not ideal to belay a second... with locking biners it doesn't stop the rope safely.
- it has to be surveid, because i had some situations where the rope slipped slowly through the knot (wet rope, icy rope or when the two biners are lying towards the rock and are not absolutely parallel)
- it would be rather hard to change the system to lower someone. it will be more complicated than with the reverso.
so better forget it for regular use. it mite be a good solution for emergency situations or when you dropped your gi-gi, reverso or b52.
ps: there will be a new belay, rappel, autoblock tool from mammut for the next season, that seems to be easier to use than the others... i'm curious!
first pictures here: http://www.mtntools.com/cat/rclimb/belayrap/mammutmatrix.htm
so have fun and forgive my bad english...
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chugach001
Feb 10, 2004, 1:57 AM
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Update - I was cleaning out my bookshelf for an upcoming garage sale and found the August, '94 Climbing. In it, Kenan Harvey recommends the garta Hart as an autoblock - and got paid $25 for the tip.
I still plan to test on my own.
Jeff
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dirtineye
Feb 10, 2004, 4:11 AM
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Let us know how it goes when your second calls for slack and he can't help you unweight the line LOL.
Goes to show you what they knew in '94.
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tahquitztwo
Mar 1, 2004, 8:11 AM
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For what it's worth, I tried practicing with the Garda knot using two locking biners. However, the biners I was using were locking Ds with a slightly squared look to them....and they seemed to work well ....
I had been thinking about using it on lower angle climbing for hauling up the second and wanted to see if lockers would work so I wouldn't have to worry about the biners unclipping or some other untoward thing happening.....
haven't used it out in the real world yet...and I do realize it would be hard to release the rope if the second need slack....
I'm still thinking through that part of it.... :shock:
just looking for possibilities to avoid kinking up the rope
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