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sensortrifulcador
Mar 26, 2004, 7:28 PM
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What is the big problem of placing bolts near a crack?
I know there is gear for trad climbing that I can use to protect myself, but
I don't feel mentally ready to climb trad, I feel safe with bolts.
Give me your thoughts.
Peace for all.
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andy_reagan
Mar 26, 2004, 7:30 PM
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Something tells me its an ethical question. :wink:
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overlord
Mar 26, 2004, 7:31 PM
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here we go again.
if you made the FA, go ahead and place bolts.
if its an established route, dont.
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krustycowboy
Mar 26, 2004, 7:42 PM
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No, don't place bolts within at least a bodylength of any trad protectable crack (two bodylengths if you're a midget).
Doing a FA of a crack gives you no right to bolt.
I am not saying that you shouldn't bolt at all, but if a route can be safely onsighted with trad gear, it should never be bolted.
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vegastradguy
Mar 26, 2004, 7:43 PM
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T0.
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justin
Mar 26, 2004, 7:44 PM
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A lot of people feel climbing is meant to be a dangerous sport. Since Chouinard lead the clean climbing revolution there has been a flood of gear which is able to provide good protection in a massive spectrum of placements. As much as these two points are in themselves contradictory, sport climbing is more at odds with these ethics. Add to that bolts being seen as a defilement of the rock in certain quarters.
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slablizard
Mar 26, 2004, 7:54 PM
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In reply to: What is the big problem of placing bolts near a crack? I know there is gear for trad climbing that I can use to protect myself, but I don't feel mentally ready to climb trad, I feel safe with bolts. Give me your thoughts. Peace for all.
Then don't climb it! There's so much rock around the world, leave the crack to the trad guys.
I love bolts and sport climbing, but a crack is..a crack :-)
have fun.
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action
Mar 26, 2004, 7:55 PM
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In reply to: What is the big problem of placing bolts near a crack? I know there is gear for trad climbing that I can use to protect myself, but I don't feel mentally ready to climb trad, I feel safe with bolts. Give me your thoughts. Peace for all.
THE BIG PROBLEM? THE BIG PROBLEM....I'LL TELL YOU THE BIG PROBLEM...pussies like you who are not mentally ready to climb a crack should consider playing tether ball. Just because YOU are scared...does not mean that routes need to be bolted. just dont climb the route! It is Bad enough that bolts get added on routes that were originally runout, or had potential for a ground fall. Let me guess...you probably own a squid and clip bolts before you start a route. If i ever caught you bolting a crack, you and your bolts would meet mr. crowbar and i'd have a new drill in my tool box....What kind of lame crap is "I feel safe with bolts" Shut the fuk up...Man...the nerve of some people...I'll tell you what...GO BACK TO THE GYM AND PULL SOME MORE PLASTIC!!!!
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j_ung
Mar 26, 2004, 7:58 PM
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Oh god, I'm so jaded on this weak excuse for a troll that I can't even come up with a half-assed decent sarcastic remark. Stop it. Just stop it.
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crotch
Mar 26, 2004, 8:06 PM
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In reply to: Oh god, I'm so jaded on this weak excuse for a troll that I can't even come up with a half-assed decent sarcastic remark. Stop it. Just stop it.
Amen.
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amedee
Mar 26, 2004, 8:10 PM
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Top rope the thing if you are able.
Bring your ability up to the level of the climb if not.
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rockhound71
Mar 26, 2004, 8:13 PM
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In reply to: slablizard wrote: Then don't climb it! There's so much rock around the world, leave the crack to the trad guys. I love bolts and sport climbing, but a crack is..a crack
Exactly!!! I sport climb, and just started trad last fall. I got sketched a few times placing pro, but I never wished there was a bolt there. If I want to climb a sport climb, I'll get on a bolted route. If there's a crack there, use gear!!!!
Casey
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oafy
Mar 26, 2004, 8:23 PM
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Well I think, you should stick to clipping bolts then trying to put bolts on a crack, if your not ready then save the crack for someone who is.
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easton
Mar 26, 2004, 8:29 PM
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Alright, ultimate noob question, how does a bolt a foot or two off the crack affect climbing the crack with trad gear? I realize bolts in many areas would be in the way, or cause difficulty for trad climbing, but I would think a foot off the crack (or two) would allow sport climbers and trad climbers to enjoy the same route.
Bear in mind I hope to be a trad climber in the future, and want to avoid sport climbing, but can't we both climb the same place where it works?
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chronicle
Mar 26, 2004, 8:31 PM
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There is no way I could think about bolting something that could be protected with trad gear. It wouldn't even cross my mind, even when I couldn't climb trad. Definitely don't bolt the crack.
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vertical_reality
Mar 26, 2004, 8:33 PM
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In reply to: Alright, ultimate noob question, how does a bolt a foot or two off the crack affect climbing the crack with trad gear? I realize bolts in many areas would be in the way, or cause difficulty for trad climbing, but I would think a foot off the crack (or two) would allow sport climbers and trad climbers to enjoy the same route.
Bolting damages the rock. Why damage the rock when you can use pro?
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easton
Mar 26, 2004, 8:35 PM
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I understand that this is the prevailing ethical choice, and doing less damage to the rock is the motivation, but it seems to be going to extremes to say never put a bolt on a trad route. I am just curious what the reason is.
I have complete faith that all the tradsters have nothing but clearly thought out, well formed arguments for this, so let's hear some reasons other than because that is the way we do it. :wink:
Flamers ready? Ready. Flame on!
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slablizard
Mar 26, 2004, 8:35 PM
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In reply to: Alright, ultimate noob question, how does a bolt a foot or two off the crack affect climbing the crack with trad gear? I realize bolts in many areas would be in the way, or cause difficulty for trad climbing, but I would think a foot off the crack (or two) would allow sport climbers and trad climbers to enjoy the same route. Bear in mind I hope to be a trad climber in the future, and want to avoid sport climbing, but can't we both climb the same place where it works?
It's just not the same thing.
there's something in climbing called "ethic" and even if I don't trad (yet) I do respect it.
It's like having your book while you're doing a test. You have it there you'll end up opening it.
Or, like someone else posted somewhere, like having a road near to a trail, you can still do the trail, but it's not the same thing.
Crack sare for trad climbing, that's it. I grew up in Italy , there you can bolt whatever you like, unless it's on a mountain, then it's called alpine climbing that is what is called here trad climbing, you use bolts at the belay stations (eventually) but not on the climbs if they can be clean protected.
Anyway, just train more and climb the suka!
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shakylegs
Mar 26, 2004, 8:36 PM
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eek, i'm replying to an obvious troll. actually, no, i'm not.
easton, you may have realised that part of the allure of trad is the mental aspect. if a bolt is accessible on a climb, it removes a large part of the mental aspect, and thus the allure.
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sensortrifulcador
Mar 26, 2004, 8:39 PM
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First of all I've never bolted any route, I climb routes that are already bolted. If its a crack and its bolted, I will clip it and climb it, no mean to harm any body.
"Action" wrotte
Quote
sissies like you who are not mentally ready to climb a crack should consider playing tether ball. Just because YOU are scared...does not mean that routes need to be bolted.
Unquote
What is up with you "action", why are you so pissed off!
Your attitude seems to intolerant and will do no good for anybody.
I'll keep climbing at my own rythm using what is available.
I enjoy it, I love it... I love you all climbers of the world!
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easton
Mar 26, 2004, 8:40 PM
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In reply to: It's like having your book while you're doing a test. You have it there you'll end up opening it.
Sounds like many climbers need to examine their own ethics, not that of climbing in general. If you climb a trad route and use one bolt along the way, and you are satisfied, isn't that good enough? Try climbing it next time without using the bolt. If you don't want to use it, don't. If it is out of the way for your climb, how does it affect you?
[Again, I agree that rock damage should be kept to a minimum, and I don't intend to bolt anything....I just want someone to actually give a reason, not just say 'because']
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action
Mar 26, 2004, 8:49 PM
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In reply to: First of all I've never bolted any route, I climb routes that are already bolted. If its a crack and its bolted, I will clip it and climb it, no mean to harm any body. "Action" wrotte Quote sissies like you who are not mentally ready to climb a crack should consider playing tether ball. Just because YOU are scared...does not mean that routes need to be bolted. Unquote What is up with you "action", why are you so pissed off! Your attitude seems to intolerant and will do no good for anybody. I'll keep climbing at my own rythm using what is available. I enjoy it, I love it... I love you all climbers of the world!
ok...maybe i was a little harsh...BUT...whats next. I'll tell you...someones gonna grab the chisel out again! ohhhh i cant climb this route, so let me add an extra hold where it works for me. its not that far of a jump in my mind.
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vegastradguy
Mar 26, 2004, 8:49 PM
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With the addition of the 'why not have a climb that both traddies and sportos can enjoy' question, along with all the additional bites after my T0 rating, I'm forced to bump the troll rating to:
T6
ps- you dont bolt a crack for the same reason you dont chip climbs. Just because you can't do it, doesnt mean you should bring the climb down to your level. You should focus on raising your abilities rather than bringing the rock down to you.
sorry on that note, but i felt that i should respond to the non-troll question.
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