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j_dub
Apr 27, 2004, 8:44 PM
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I just started climbing a little over a month ago, and only in the gym. I try to go 2-3 times a week, and do mostly route climbing, traversing, and a little bouldering. (I can climb 5.6/5.7-ish stuff, more so if it's not overhanging terribly).
Here's the rub: I want to be able to do more bouldering, but there is only one bouldering route (a V0) at my gym that I can manage. Partly because it's not overhanging and it's a foot off the ground. Everything else is overhanging and most end with some campusing across the roof, or dynos to holds on the roof. I have two problems: I don't trust my fingers/hands to hold dynos, and I am not strong enough to do the monkey-bars campusing that is required for stuff finishing on the roof. This may have to do with my being female and being an ex-dancer (my strength is in my legs). Part if it is fear of falling, and part is fear of really hurting myself by ripping off holds on the roof and pulling tendons or just plain splatting hard on the gym floor.
I climb about as much as I safely can, at this point (avoiding getting some over-use injuries) and always leave the gym pumped. What can I do to increase my dyno/campusing strength that won't hurt me? I know I'm not ready to use a campus board. I'm considering going down to the local park and using the monkey bars. ;)
I know this is something that will improve over time, but does anyone have advice for increasing strength and power (I think most of my climbing has focused on sustained strength and endurance so far).
Thanks!
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cloudbreak
Apr 27, 2004, 8:48 PM
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In reply to: .....but does anyone have advice for increasing strength and power (I think most of my climbing has focused on sustained strength and endurance so far).
Keep bouldering and push the envelope a little more each time.
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l0wnsl0
Apr 27, 2004, 8:54 PM
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do some pullups after you climb to burn out the lats. also some bicep curls should help you lock off more.
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climber49er
Apr 27, 2004, 8:55 PM
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You just need to get stronger... You can't climb until you can do 50 pull ups in 3 minutes.
Alright, maybe not. :lol:
On roofs, you don't have to campus everything. You probably don't have to do it much at all. Use your strong legs and feet to your advantage. Think crawling across roofs while you are inverted. Hook your toes and heels into anything available. Push hard with your feet and your hand and arms will do a lot less work.
As for ripping holds out.. I seriously doubt you will unless your gym has rotten wood or you are very heavy. I am pretty much the heaviest guy at my gym and sometimes I spin holds or make em squeek and groan but I have never ripped one out even though I put some serious force on them at times.
As for fear of falling... Go take some intentional falls onto mats from a nice low height. Practice falling alot (REALLY!). you will become more confortable wth it and then when you really fall, you will reflexively position yourself better so as to not get hurt.
Good Luck, have fun, climb hard!
David
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brianthew
Apr 27, 2004, 8:55 PM
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If you want to do those campus and dynamic roof moves, start doing overhanging steep stuff while bouldering. Don't do routes, just grab whatever jug presents itself and do laps under roofs and up overhangs. Use feet. Repeat until pumped. Once you start getting stronger and the workout gets easier, start limiting/eliminating feet.
Do not, however, do this to the point where your joints start aching.
Climbing steepness is the best way to build the upper body and core strength.
Have fun, and don't get overconcerned about the monkey-types swinging around on the V17 projects. Strength comes in time.
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climbsomething
Apr 27, 2004, 8:55 PM
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To be blunt (sorry):
Anybody who's only been climbing a month and tops out at 5.7 really doesn't need to campus, and it's no surprise that you're struggling with it.
Just climb. Throw on more feet if you can, no matter if they're "on" when doing these roof moves. Campus strength is not an innate skill in every climber, especially brand new ones. But power can be trained in plenty of other ways. Patience, grasshoppa.
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katydid
Apr 27, 2004, 9:04 PM
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I'll second Hillary on this one. Don't worry about campusing right now. Work on the basics, of which campusing is not one.
You have an advantage with your dance background. Your legs are strong, you're body-aware in terms of balance as well as what your muscles are doing, and you have the opportunity to develop great footwork quicker because of it.
Footwork will get you more results in the long run than being able to campus will. Even on those nasty roof problems.
Focus on the feet. You'll be able to climb more stuff, and your arms will get stronger while you do it, whether you mean for them to or not. :)
k.
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j_dub
Apr 27, 2004, 9:09 PM
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In reply to: As for ripping holds out.. I seriously doubt you will unless your gym has rotten wood or you are very heavy. I am pretty much the heaviest guy at my gym and sometimes I spin holds or make em squeek and groan but I have never ripped one out even though I put some serious force on them at times.
As is, I'm just doing the first half of the boulder routes, and skipping the roof stuff - we have several routes where you go up an overhang, and then the final hold is a big jug or something a few feet out on the roof, and you just have to jump or swing to it, no feet, so I've been skipping them. I totally agree the someone who barely climbs most 5.7s need not be doing crazy campusing! :) (wish there wasn't monkey-swinging on the V0s.. grrrr. I swear, while most gym ratings are reportedly inflated, I tend to think ours aren't, but then again, everything seems hard to me at this point).
I have trouble with the really steep stuff, too, even using feet. I know I need to get stronger.. just wish there were easier bouldering problems at the gym - so I could get past the first 3 moves! (and I do 'cheat' and 'supplement' routes with extra holds that are conveniently located nearby. :twisted: ) I'm fine falling while bouldering as long as it's a controlled fall - like jumping back off the wall. It's the 'aaaaaah! crud!' SPLAT falls that concern me.
Thanks again for all your help - I'm definitely going to be thinking about everything you guys said next time I venture into the bouldering cave..
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christophpahl
Apr 27, 2004, 10:15 PM
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In reply to: It's the 'aaaaaah! crud!' SPLAT falls that concern me.
I practiced these falls a lot... so I have no fear falling onto my back (from 5m heigth on thick mats, or 2m onto my crashpad, no spotter). Neither of falling onto some other boulderer, but they don't like that so much, don't know why ... :roll:
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lagart
Apr 28, 2004, 4:13 PM
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For what you say it seems as if the guys you climb with at the gym are not being good teachers. The point is that you can’t pretend to send the staff they are sending with only one month of climbing! And they should teach you that. Instead of worrying about pulling on hard boulder problems, start doing stamina and technique training. You will develop technique very quickly (women always do, precisely because they don’t have as much strength as men, so they have to take advantage of technique to climb hard). What is more, even if you could gain strength quickly without getting all your tendons broken (bet it by campusing, weight lifting or any other method), you won’t benefit from it as much as you think. This is because when you first start climbing, the aspect that you have to develop the best is technique. When you have a lot of strength, you can pull on hard stuff without using technique, but then it will be more difficult for you to learn good technique later (which you will need in order to send harder stuff). It will be harder because you will already be climbing with strength, and not with technique. Okey… I don’t know if what I’m saying makes sense at all….
So, after the “lecture”, my advice would be:
Improve your footwork (there are a lot of articles about footwork, in this site and in many others, www.planetfear.com, for instance).
Instead of doing power climbing (which bouldering is), do stamina climbing. Do use steeped boulders if you want, but with good handholds, and gradually start using smaller footholds. Do more easy movements instead of few really hard ones.
And if you do want to train with the guys, you should be adding at least 3 hand holds for each 10 hand holds in a boulder problem.
After six month of training you will have your tendons strong enough to start doing some easy campus. In the meanwhile, you can do some monkey bar, but remember that at the beginning technique and stamina are more important than pure strength.
Climb on!
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jkarns
Apr 28, 2004, 4:20 PM
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You really should let the route setters and gym management know that you are dissatisfied with the setting. Every problem should not be the same, as in steep and dynamic. Ask for different styles of problems!! You are a patron and if the gym management has any sense, they'll get some different styles set.
Variety is the spice of life!!
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jason1
Apr 28, 2004, 4:34 PM
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do lots of vertical climbing first... this along with resting is the MOST IMPORTAINT PART OF YOUR CLIMBING... you should be able to perch on small holds and gain a no hands rest on most vertical routes...
also, do negatives... i like to use rock rings... just pull one arm into your body and push one out to the side and lower yourself (SLOWLY)... first you'll be able to lower a little bit(don't rush it), then to 90 degrees (super lock-off style), then past 90 to full extension (try not to fully extend or you'll shock your elbow), after that you'll be able to come back up, then you can start dropping fingers... i can get multiple one finger pull-ups on any finger (except the broken one).
if you need assistance, try a spotter or a runner with a bungee cord for your foot...
stay away from real campusing (or super recrutitment) i've flamed horist over this a couple of times... if you can't controll the larger muscle groups, you'll never controll the smaller tendons.
learn to enjoy 5.6...
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aikibujin
Apr 28, 2004, 4:34 PM
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I read this after replying to your post about first time climbing outside in the Beginners section. I'm sorry you couldn't go on that trip anymore.
Like many people suggested here, work on your footwork, balance, and technique first, before worrying about building strength and climbing overhangs. Since you're a dancer, you should have a good foundation in leg strength, flexibility, and balance. You're already ahead of the game than most people. Now you just need to transfer these muscle memories to climbing specific movements. You probably have read about this tip already, but try climbing a low angle slab with no hands. Pay attention to how you shift your weight around, maintain your center of gravity over your feet, and position your body for balance. This single exercise helped me the most in climbing.
To relate my learning experience, I started climbing at a friend's home gym. It's short, 10 to 12 feet max, but with a roof and a small overhang, so it's mostly a bouldering wall. I'm a guy, with years of background in martial arts, so I'm pretty strong to start with (but not one arm pull-up kinda strong). In my first two months of climbing, I got pretty good at bouldering because that's all I had access to (the closest commercial gym is 1.5 hours away). I was able to climb some overhang routes, stuff in the 5.8 - 5.9 range. I felt pretty good about it, but unbeknownst to me, my endurance and balance on rock sucked. Then I went on my first outdoor climb (which I told you about in my other reply), got on a 5.5 to "warm up", only to get my butt kicked repeatedly in the first 3 feet, on what looked like an easy, less than vertical (70 to 80 degrees) section. The problem was that this section has no big hand holds, requiring good foot work and balance to move past. The few good techniques I learned while climbing overhang routes (twist lock, heel hook, lock-off), the only tricks in my hat, couldn't be used because I couldn't find a solid hand hold. It's pretty humiliating hanging there in total defeat, two feet off the ground on TR, in front of what seemed like an easy climb, while three (count them, three!) other climbing parties looked on.
Let my humiliation be your lesson. Forget about bouldering over hang routes for now, work on improve your technique. After you're confident that you have good footwork, then start bouldering. It's easy to get strong after you learn good technique; but if you work on getting strong first, it may be harder to learn good technique later because you tend to just pull harder to make up for your lack in skill.
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gds
Apr 28, 2004, 5:08 PM
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Back to campusing.
I've never campused! I've climbed trad and sport routes through the .10's and never thought of campusing. Perhaps a deadpoint or two but... .
I have friends who are very solid thropugh the .11's and I've never seen them campus. I have no opinion on campusing while bouldering (as I don't boulder) or what amy be needed on .12's on up but I think it is a dramatic but unneeded capability on what most of us climb.
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overlord
Apr 28, 2004, 5:31 PM
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you dont really need to campus on easy stuff. just make sure you use your feet correctly.
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andy_reagan
Apr 28, 2004, 6:04 PM
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if you have footholds, use them! They help! :lol:
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j_dub
Apr 29, 2004, 8:15 PM
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Wow, thanks for all the replies! :) I actually do wind up doing mostly endurance and footwork practice stuff when I go climbing, because bouldering feels like throwing myself at the wall repeatedly with little to no result. All the slabs at the gym are pretty steep, but I did practice climbing one barely touching the hand-holds, with my partner. 8^)
I'm working a lot on playing around with my feet, turning my knees in, doing some simple stuff like that, and it's definitely freeing me up - I am still not terribly confident, but I'm getting there (unlike my friend who is a tiny little person and practically barrels up the wall, sticking her feet on any holds in reach, leaping about, and generally being fearless).
I will definitely be hanging out on the 5.6/5.7 stuff for a while. Mostly I just climb walls and ignore the routes, although they're fun.. we don't really have many easier routes at the gym. So, yeah, my focus now is on technique, and just climbing and experimenting and learning as much as I can. :P I really just want to have fun and climb, and I am, so it's all good.
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j_dub
Apr 29, 2004, 8:16 PM
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whoops - double post.
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