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pawilkes
May 4, 2004, 1:18 AM
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the idea of "It's not the fact that you got to the top that counts, but rather the fashion/style of how you got to the top" people can hike to the top of mountains/boulders, or they can do a route/problem. clearly the style in which someone does a problem needs to be considered.
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boulderfanatic
May 4, 2004, 1:54 AM
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This topic has nothing to do with hiking around, jumping from the ground to the top, traversing in, getting boosted onto a problem, ect.... It is about starting a problem where it should and climbing it in a manner that was easier for YOU than the original version. Tis as simple as that....
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combinatorx
May 4, 2004, 2:50 AM
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I agree with what was said earlier about each person having to know what is best for them, and how to use their own strengths to their advantage. However, in terms of grading problems, if we started considering these things, we would have to change the grading of the problem based on each person. "Oh, well, she is short, but flexible, so this is a V5, but he is tall and has a big reach, so maybe it is a V4 for him. Oh, and he has frog fingers, so those slopers are easy for him...V3." It just can't be done that way. It has to be graded across the board and it has to be based on completing the sequence as it was presented. Either you can do it or you can't. If you can do it in the fashion it was intended, you have sent the problem. If you can't do it that way, but can do it another way...you have sent a DIFFERENT problem (which may or may not be graded the same). In terms of pure enjoyment of the sport, I don't give a rodent's rear...but if we are speaking in terms of competitions, these things just have to be across the board. I mean, I have an advantage on tight spaces because I am compact...I can mantle like nobody's business because of Yoga, and needless to say the Yoga helps with my flexibility as well. Therefore, there are problems which I can do which perhaps people with different advantages can't...but by that same token they can do things I can't. It all balances out in the end anyway. Just climb what you can, whenever you can, and have a hell of alot of fun doing it. Woot!
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scracus
May 4, 2004, 8:18 AM
Post #29 of 39
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After you have put up a lot of problems you'll know when there is a weakness through the thing. Usually boulderers are trying to put up the hardest or best problem they can and rate it accordingly, but if as in many of the examples it is found that the thing is not very hard for tall or taller climbers then you have to take this into account when rating it or some tall climber will downrate your problem. Do another one! Across the board some probs will fit tall climbers and some will be better suited for shorter climbers that's just the way it goes; neither way adds difficulty you have to protect the grade by rating each prob for the easier way. That is why 4 star problems are rare, but there are always more to do.
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barefeetnochalk
May 4, 2004, 11:36 AM
Post #30 of 39
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surely problems that can be sent by dyno past the crux would be classified as "eliminates" (ie: not using all the holds/not taking the easiest line). So dynoing would change the route and therefore the grade.
im still down with dyno'n, dont get me wrong there...
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hyhuu
May 4, 2004, 6:38 PM
Post #31 of 39
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Registered: Jul 25, 2001
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It's a send. There is no rule saying one has to use every holds in between or else using a deadpoint vs. dropknee lockoff and bumping the hand move would qualify as different problem and that's rediculous.
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allday_17
May 4, 2004, 6:44 PM
Post #32 of 39
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I dont consider it a send, because i am big on climbing the route move for move. But i also think that by skipping the crux it takes away from the excitment of the climb. I have spent days on problems, and after i send one, especially on a grade higher than i usually climb, i am exhilarated. I think that it just takes the fun out of the climb to dyno to the top and skip the problem.
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drrock
May 4, 2004, 7:25 PM
Post #33 of 39
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Registered: Oct 18, 2003
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edit
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jgill
May 5, 2004, 2:30 AM
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Another illustration (for what it's worth - judging from the replies, probably not much): About forty years ago Bob Kamps and I were bouldering one day in the Black Hills. On a couple of routes, once on the rock, I swung over some thin stretches using a modified dynamic technique. This frustrated Bob, who was several inches shorter than me, without my wingspan, and could not do the routes that way. So, he insisted that on these routes, I use the intermediate holds, as he had done. That shut me down!
We both climbed the routes, but we obviously "solved" different problems. We, of course, made no attempt to assign an "accurate" grade to the problems, since the V-system didn't exist then (John Sherman was still in diapers). We concluded that the broad category of B-1 (my old, now-extinct rating) sufficed - and it did for that period in the history of bouldering. Things are different now and modern perspectives are required. But, as Sherman, who is now middle-aged, ruminates: "They're slicing the grades thinner and thinner". 8^)
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drrock
May 5, 2004, 3:27 AM
Post #35 of 39
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coldclimb
May 5, 2004, 3:31 AM
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:roll:
Send.
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sidepull
May 5, 2004, 3:43 AM
Post #37 of 39
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go to drtopo.com and watch the vid.
what's exciting about it is Steven's energy and excitement about climbing. For him it has little to do with the grades - he's just having fun. Look at the expressions of Matt B. and Chris Seirzant - they're pretty stoked to see Steven trying something new.
is it a send? Yes.
is it the original? No.
So, is it the original grade? No. But that's not the point - check Steven's smile and listen to what he says - he's just having a fun time crushing things. A lot of boulder problems create this type of debate. Your average problem usually has an abundance of holds to choose from - it's the special problems where the rock itself forces you to do certain moves. For example, you can't change the beta too much on Black Lung, Midnight Lightning, or Dream Time - there aren't other holds for new options. When you can do something different, go ahead! Link up a traverse, add a sit start, dyno to the top from the start. If it goes different ways then each is a send. Ratings are supposed to rate movement not the rock so the rating will be different - but the point is the same: have fun, be creative, learn to do something you didn't believe was possible.
Watch the vid.
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the_antoon
May 5, 2004, 3:56 AM
Post #38 of 39
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If I did it, it's a send....if you did it, it's a not... 8^)
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xprompt
May 5, 2004, 4:41 AM
Post #39 of 39
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so what is it rated if only a short person can hold on but cant reacht the next one. and a tall person cant grab it but would be able to reach to the next move. i dont see a disadvantage with being tall. but thats beyond the point.
i say we're overanalysing it and to solve the problem just go climb and be done thinking about it. if u think u can say 'i did it' honestly then thats your problem.
climb on!
heh
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