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hardcoredana
Apr 23, 2002, 4:01 AM
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In another forum, mikedano wrote
Quote:I would say however that the majority of the equipment (bolts, ropes, etc.) is fine in a gym, and I would trust it sooner than outside bolts.
Before I worked for climbing gyms, I would have agreed with this statement. In the gyms where I worked, the bolts and draws were safe, but the ropes were definately not safe.
Climbing gym owners want to get the longest life out of their ropes, and sometimes they sacrifice safety to save a few bucks. Also, in order to be really safe, the gyms should check each rope at least once a week (and preferably once a day, in my opinion). If you consider that most gyms have anywhere from 40-80 topropes up, and then you consider what a pain in the ass it is to inspect a top rope that is already up, and then you consider that many gyms are under-staffed, you will realize that in all likelihood many gyms do not inspect their ropes enough.
Case and point: I was climbing a few weeks ago at a gym, and I was about to tie into a top rope (a top rope that, coincidentally, was up for at least a year), when I noticed at the other end of the rope that the an inch of core was exposed. I'm thinking, "Eh, could just be normal rope wear." But out of concern for my life, I decided to check the other end of the rope for the flat spot (the flat spot at the other end usually accompanies normal rope wear in a gym, because the core and the sheath are not attached to each other,and they will separate a little). No flat spot. At the other end of the rope, the rope looked perfectly intact. I scratched my head in confusion. I decide to investigate further. I go back to the other end, where the core is exposed. I give the core a little tug. More core comes out. I give the core another tug, and more core comes out. So I start pulling the core out. By the time my curiosity was satisfied, I had pulled out 20 feet of core, and I could have kept going.
How long had the rope been like that? I don't know. How many people climbed on it while it was like that? I don't know. How many more would have climbed on it before someone got seriously hurt? Not that many.
I pulled the rope down immediately, took it up to the front desk, showed the manager, told him to give me a new rope, and put the new rope up. At that point in time, I was no longer an employee, I was a customer. A friggin' customer had to pull the rope down and put a new one up. What is that? Laziness. Lack of attention to safety.
Please(take it from someone who knows), don't implicitly trust the ropes you climb on in a gym. In most climbing gyms, hundreds of people climb on a single rope in the course of a month; however, the ropes are not inspected or replaced at a frequency to match that amount of wear.
[ This Message was edited by: hardcoredana on 2002-12-04 09:16 ]
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maculated
Apr 23, 2002, 4:13 AM
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I'd agree. The local climbing gym here has rusty caribiners for top rope belays and the ropes themselves are pretty old and stiff. I'm not sure when, if ever, they are replaced. Ick.
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crackaddict
Apr 23, 2002, 4:26 AM
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I agree also. I have seen some pretty battered ropes at the gyms.
Some so fat and worn that un-doing knots and feeding them through a belay device is sometimes harder than the climb I was just on.
I really think that people rely on thier gyms to take care of safety issues. For the most part they do.
But remember just like climbing outside your responsible to check everything too. If they were responsible for you then you would'nt need to sign that waiver before you climb there.
Dana that was really smart of you to take matters into your own hands.
Rockitup!
[ This Message was edited by: crackaddict on 2002-04-22 21:30 ]
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spike_in_milton
Apr 23, 2002, 10:35 PM
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I can't imagine belaying my gym buddy John with a crappy rope like that; as often as not, he's going to slip and drop onto the rope. Not so bad, except he's over 300 lbs. if he's an ounce... not something you especially want swinging overhead if that rope is going to suddenly let go (I keep thinking about escape routes should he suddenly drop hard in my immediate direction).
On the other hand, with a good rope, if you can belay John safely, you can belay anyone or anything .
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badger
May 13, 2002, 3:39 AM
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Good call. It's usually safer to trust yourself and the equipment you know than somebody else. FYI: The people at The Quarry in Provo, UT, maintain their ropes pretty well.
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iclimbtoo
May 13, 2002, 5:01 AM
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Nice call. It's really too bad that most of the time employees don't care enough to do extra checks and stuff...well, at least that's how it is at our wall. We need those few people who are willing to do a little more work to make sure that the wall is safe. Too bad most of the time the people that are willing to do that are the customers.
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maddie
May 13, 2002, 5:44 AM
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Yeah well done you could have saved some1 from a nasty accident...
But not All gyms are that slack... a lot are though.
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crux_clipper
May 13, 2002, 9:38 AM
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The gym ropes are not the same as normal climbing ropes used for lead. The ropes for TR are semi-dynamic, meaning that the don't stretch as much as normal dynamic. This means that they last a little longer than normal ropes.
If you consider the punishment a rope takes in the 2 year life span, it's not much worse then older TR.
Big lead falls are worse for the rope compared to TR falls, and some climbers climb on their rope for around 1-2 years (this is a generalisation. Its all up to how each climber feels whether they retire their rope earlier)
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duskerhu
May 13, 2002, 9:59 AM
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I don't know if I'd agree with crux but that's cool...
Dana, Thanks for the valuble piece of INFO!!!
We check our harnesses (your own and your partners) we check the belay device, we check the tie in, but I guess I never paid too much attention to the actual rope or anchors before...
You can bet I will now!!
Live Free!
Play Hard!
Climb On!
duskerhu
[ This Message was edited by: duskerhu on 2002-05-13 03:00 ]
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treyr
May 13, 2002, 11:22 AM
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The ropes at my wall are always good. They get new ropes every half a year
Trob
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ktwo
May 18, 2002, 5:29 AM
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I just started working at a climbing wall, but I have been going to it for quite some time. It is actually run by the city here, so we get new ropes every six months, and not just wall kind either. They are mammuts, and they are checked once every week, by hand, the whole thing. There are some people around that still like to help the customer out.
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treyr
May 18, 2002, 9:22 PM
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I think they are perfectly safe
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djax
May 24, 2002, 12:46 AM
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I'd have to say it all depends on the gym's wall manager (if there is one) how competent they are, and on the methods/system used by the gym. We have a bulletproof system for rope and anchors maintenance and inspections at the gym I climb at! Many of the ropes wear differently and in different ways depending on many factors. And it is of course in a gyms best interest to get the most out of every rope (as they are not cheap) while still maintaining 100% quality of safety. I know I feel completely confident in the equipment at the gym I climb at. I have been to other gyms however that really do scare me.
...2 cents...
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holygecko
May 24, 2002, 12:38 PM
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are you sure, I mean the only defects I see are frayed ends and broken cores
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stevematthys
May 26, 2002, 7:53 AM
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a gym would not use unsafe ropes, they dont want to risk injury and the chance of someone taking them to court
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crux_clipper
May 26, 2002, 11:25 AM
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1 rope for climbing.....$200
1 claim for compensation due to faulty ropes......grande mula!!!
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tyraidbp
May 26, 2002, 12:36 PM
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For those of you who doubt what Dana has said, I will more than second the comment. You should pay close attention to how long you climb on the same ropes in the gym. The fact is, you signed a waiver. People keep talking about how the waiver wont stand up in court, but let me tell you it does. I just so happened to work for the same gym that Dana did, and they have the dumbest setup for their anchors. If the climber is not paying attention on lead and clips the top, what happens is the lead rope goes over the top rope and you get what is called friction between the two ropes. Do this simple test at home someday. Take a piece of 1" tubular webbing about 3' long. Tie off both ends to something so you have a loop. Then take your old rope and run it over the webbing back and for like a saw. You will burn right through the webbing in a about 10 secs or less. The shealth of the rope is the same nylon as the webbing so you can only imagine what two ropes over each other can do. I know gyms that tell you to pull the top rope and lead with that. Great except they have no idea then how many falls the rope has seen. Would you trust them? Gym owners are cheap and lazy, so take a closer look at what really goes on in a gym.
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pianomahnn
May 26, 2002, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
a gym would not use unsafe ropes, they dont want to risk injury and the chance of someone taking them to court
How wrong you are. This topic would not have been started if that were truth.
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stevematthys
May 26, 2002, 9:11 PM
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well i hate to say it, but you go to a shitty ass gym if they use unsafe ropes. the gym i go to gets new ropes every 6 months. they check ropes every week for safety and i always check the lead ropes before i climb on them. how shitty your gym is....
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rpman
May 27, 2002, 12:29 AM
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Our public liability insurers dont allow that stuff to go on. I can't beleive that the situation is so bad where you guys are. I climb at Ciff Hanger Gym in Altona Australia and the owner there checks,changes and logs his ropes regulary. He also uses GRIGRI belay devices. It's also a shame that some gym owners have to cut corners to stay alive in their buisness because of ridiculously high insurance policies.
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tigerseye
May 27, 2002, 1:08 AM
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Maybe someone should start a commitee...The climbing wall inspectors berau...it could work
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vbrgclimber
May 27, 2002, 1:55 AM
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thats pretty scary dude. but i wouldnt say that about all gyms at all. we have a rope log book and have to heck them once a week or earlier and any unsafe rope is taken down immediately. but i agree with you that soe gym rope are pretty scary and you should always check them if you feel skecthed out, ive seen some other gym ropes with exposed cores and stuff...thats not cool.
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davandron
May 27, 2002, 5:42 AM
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Dana,
That's pretty scary alright! So what should we do? I guess it goes without saying that we should inspect a rope before ever trusting it, but I've been told most damage isn't obvious (as it was in your case). Do you, or anyone else, have some advice for the rest of us?
Also, it's my understanding that the damage is primarily through hard falls. So does that mean the Auto-Belay routes are safer (since they do not sustain hard impacts)?
Thanks!
-Andrew
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darkside
May 27, 2002, 12:29 PM
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Dana: Good topic and something people need to be aware of. Ultimately the climber is responsible for their own safety but gyms should keep a close eye on their equipment. I don't dispute the cases mentioned here however I will temper the caution with this. A couple of years or so ago, my local gym owner out of curiosity took a length of used rope and sent it for testing. He selected the fuzziest, biggest, stiffest, worst looking length of rope that had been running under the lip of a horizontal roof. Upon testing to destruction, it failed at just a couple of hundred pounds less than it's given rating.
What does this show us? Ropes are pretty resilient. Mere visual apearance is not an indicator of a ropes safety, good or bad. With proper inspection and due dilligence, a gym need not have suspect ropes.
BE AWARE. MAKE NO ASSUMPTIONS.
Thanks Dana.
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hang_man
May 27, 2002, 10:51 PM
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i've got a feeling most gyms never renew their ropes and never take count of how many falls the ropes have taken.....
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