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dxmetal
Jun 14, 2004, 11:04 PM
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anyone here into caving at all ??
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jerrygarcia
Jun 14, 2004, 11:11 PM
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Been technical caving in West Virginia since 1991, what do you want to know?
While someone else is looking at your message, who knows where there are caves near Tahoe, I cant find any info other than commercial caverns.
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dxmetal
Jun 14, 2004, 11:20 PM
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just starting out this summer. got all gears ready. any advice ? besides dont fall ?
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matttheripper
Jun 14, 2004, 11:35 PM
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I've been caving in Puerto Rico. Adventures Tienne Adentro
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tgreene
Jun 15, 2004, 12:04 AM
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I've been caving all over the midwest in WV, PA, KY, OH, IL and MO...
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dood
Jun 15, 2004, 12:04 AM
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In reply to: just starting out this summer. got all gears ready. any advice ? besides dont fall ?
Don't drown. Hypothermia kills. Learn how to prussik. Always wear a helmet. Carry a couple of Snickers, just in case.
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dxmetal
Jun 15, 2004, 12:07 AM
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i was just wondering, why a Rack is so much better than an ATC ?
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jerrygarcia
Jun 15, 2004, 12:10 AM
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In reply to: i was just wondering, why a Rack is so much better than an ATC ?
When you rap for more than 200" or so, its good to do this as the ATC will get super hot. A rap rack will help your rope last longer.
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gator
Jun 15, 2004, 12:23 AM
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find a local grotto and get in good with the caving community. cavers tend to be slightly secretive and a kind of insular group, so the best way to learn techniques and find where the caves are is to join a groto. caving and climbing share alot of techniques but try to be humble in the begining and listen b/c there are new things to learn. find out more at caves.org.
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dxmetal
Jun 15, 2004, 12:25 AM
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I am in the local grotto group but just liek to get more knowledge here. I also found that cavers are more kind to each other compared to climbers.
can someone clarify how to changeover at rebelay for the frog system ?
also the changeover while rappling at the rebelay station.
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bsignorelli
Jun 15, 2004, 12:58 AM
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In reply to: anyone here into caving at all ??
Yes....AR and KY mainly.
Bryan
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bsignorelli
Jun 15, 2004, 1:08 AM
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In reply to: i was just wondering, why a Rack is so much better than an ATC ?
You just try fitting a fat stiff 11mm-13mm muddy stiff fuzzy (did I mention stiff) caving rope through your ATC.
First off...remember you won't need a rack for a while. Your local grotto people will want you to spend some horizontal time with them first.
Be safe...STFU and listen to your elders... :)
Bryan
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bsignorelli
Jun 15, 2004, 1:12 AM
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In reply to: just starting out this summer. got all gears ready. any advice ? besides dont fall ?
Definetly DFU
Cave rescues are a time consuming, personel consuming and potentially dangerous acticvity.
Think about it...typical cave trip for me in KY...
You get hurt 8 hours in...if your buddies haul ass out of the cave then it could take 4-6 hours for them to get out of the cave.
An hour for a really fucking fast rescue to get started. Don't expect this though unless you are doing some sort of organized caving where the rescue personel are basically on site.
4-6 hours for the first responders to come in and get to you.
An hour for med treatment and packaging you up for a carry out.
Depending on the difficulty of the terrain it could be 12 or more hours to get you out...carrying, pulling, pushing a SKED around is hard work.
So what are we up to now...22 hours...rounded down with a low ball guess on the time in most of those categories. Thats 22 hours of people trying to get your rear out of the cave AFTER you got hurt...so you've been underground for 30 hours now.
Think about it...
I've heard that for a rescue that takes 24hours (after the callout is started) you could be looking at almost 100 people being involved.
Be safe....
Bryan
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bsignorelli
Jun 15, 2004, 1:14 AM
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In reply to: I am in the local grotto group but just liek to get more knowledge here. I also found that cavers are more kind to each other compared to climbers. can someone clarify how to changeover at rebelay for the frog system ? also the changeover while rappling at the rebelay station.
You might get better answers from the people over at the NSS message board: http://www.caves.org/soapbox. Climbers aren't usually people who deal with changing directions while on a rope, in a waterfall, with no light.
Not trying to be a weenie but getting involved with your local grotto and finding some hands on instruction will a) save your butt sometime in the future and b) not get third parties involved in pulling your butt out of a cave.
Shit happens...I recently had three friends trapped in a cave (rising flood waters) for 30+ hours. Small errors added up but no harm done. They had heat and food and were able to dry out. Oh and yes they had checked the weather the night before.
Anyways...
Bryan
PS - Kudos if this was a troll :) :) :)
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bsignorelli
Jun 15, 2004, 1:20 AM
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In reply to: who knows where there are caves near Tahoe, I cant find any info other than commercial caverns.
Can't help ya there buddy but maybe one of the (sorta) local grottos can.
Bryan
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dxmetal
Jun 15, 2004, 1:35 AM
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a lot of Arkansas cavers ?? wehre do you guys usually go ?? TAG country ??
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tgreene
Jun 15, 2004, 2:02 AM
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TAG is mostly TN/KY/OH people. In MO, AR, IL we're primarily MVOR.
Also, I would have to disagree about cavers generally being nicer than climbers, because it depends on the individuals. The cavers I generally hang wiith are also climbers, so we get along wonderfully. The "scientific" types tend to be anti-social freaks that seem to only ever get along with others in lab coats and jumpsuits! :?
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bsignorelli
Jun 15, 2004, 2:48 AM
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In reply to: a lot of Arkansas cavers ??
Well..there are no caves to speak of in Arkansas....
...but there are over 5,000 in MO :)
In reply to: wehre do you guys usually go ?? TAG country ??
Most AR cavers stay close to home.
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bsignorelli
Jun 15, 2004, 2:53 AM
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In reply to: TAG is mostly TN/KY/OH people.
Aren't you forgetting the 'A' and 'G' in TAG? :)
In reply to: In MO, AR, IL we're primarily MVOR.
Were you at the Spring MVOR this year? If you're at the fall MVOR I'll be camping near/with the MOLES...come by and say hi and I'll toss ya a beer.
In reply to: Also, I would have to disagree about cavers generally being nicer than climbers, because it depends on the individuals.
No joke :) A-holes exist everywhere.
Bryan
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timstich
Jun 15, 2004, 3:16 AM
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In reply to: TAG is mostly TN/KY/OH people. In MO, AR, IL we're primarily MVOR. Also, I would have to disagree about cavers generally being nicer than climbers, because it depends on the individuals. The cavers I generally hang wiith are also climbers, so we get along wonderfully. The "scientific" types tend to be anti-social freaks that seem to only ever get along with others in lab coats and jumpsuits! :?
There appear to be a lot fewer scientist freaks involved in climbing. Most are programmer guys, which is actually pretty pedestrian now that even soda jerks can write code. Cavers suck in all of the Ph.Ds in geology, biology, and hydrogeology, which are easily some of the nerdiest, esoteric disciplines.
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jerrygarcia
Jun 15, 2004, 4:18 AM
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In reply to: Can't help ya there buddy but maybe one of the (sorta) local grottos can. Bryan
Ive emailed a few, been an NSS member 5 years of my 13 years caving. There are no books on caves in the eastern/northern sierras, West Virginia had books for each county.
Ive found some nice commercial caves near sonoroa/calaveras/rt4 but info on wild caves in the northern sierras is hard to come by.
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tgreene
Jun 15, 2004, 12:01 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: TAG is mostly TN/KY/OH people. Aren't you forgetting the 'A' and 'G' in TAG? :) In reply to: In MO, AR, IL we're primarily MVOR. Were you at the Spring MVOR this year? If you're at the fall MVOR I'll be camping near/with the MOLES...come by and say hi and I'll toss ya a beer. In reply to: Also, I would have to disagree about cavers generally being nicer than climbers, because it depends on the individuals. No joke :) A-holes exist everywhere. Bryan
I wasn't there this spring, and generally don't attend in the spring, because the weather is too unpredictable. If you were there last fall though, I was the "hater" that was passing out the orange flyers about the misappropriation of funds from the Sinking Creek event... I then spoke at (errr, umm, hijacked actually) the business meeting on Sunday morning.
I'm also prettey well known as the "meatman" since I'm the guy that brings upwards of 40-50# of prime rib to cook and hand out. Last fall I cooked a rack of lamb though. :P
I'm friends of KR and the Avery twins, and often hang out with the guys from Rolla that bring the Speleobox. I also used to make and sell campgriddles, so I'm pretty well known for those as well.
There actually ARE a lot of caves in northern Arkansas, but they are on private land. These are scattered throughout the area just south of the Buffalo River and Horshoe Ranch (the climbing area).
If you happen to read the NSS boards, I go by "The Sherpa" over there, and many may recall the year long war that I had with Mark Andrich (current MVOR pres) about the hijacked election 2 years ago, where I had a motion on the floor that had been seconded, but it was thrown out and completely ignored. :evil:
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troutboy
Jun 15, 2004, 1:03 PM
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In reply to: i was just wondering, why a Rack is so much better than an ATC ?
On long rappels, the weight of the rope becomes a significant factor. Moving the bars on the rack farther apart (or closer) or adding/removing bars allows you to compensate for the changes in rope weight as you rappel.
TS
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dxmetal
Jun 16, 2004, 9:38 PM
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got the NSS accident report publication on the mail 2 days ago. Best single reading for a beginner caver. I wish the rock climbing community would have some governing body like the NSS.
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bsignorelli
Jun 16, 2004, 10:10 PM
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In reply to: got the NSS accident report publication on the mail 2 days ago. Best single reading for a beginner caver. I wish the rock climbing community would have some governing body like the NSS.
It is a good read. But the NSS isn't a "governing body"...they don't set any rules nor do they require a license to go caving or any such thing that a typical governing body would do.
Climbing has somehting similar...it's called the Accidents in North American Mountaineering and is put out by the American Alpine Club.
I think the accidents book is available at several different retailers.
Bryan
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