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breaksnclimbs
Jul 6, 2004, 8:46 PM
Post #26 of 38
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Registered: Dec 9, 2003
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Serious,
I'm gald she's ok !! And thanks for the first-hand info,Well second hand now :wink:
That's cool that she's willing to get back on!! Send IT!!
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granitegod
Jul 6, 2004, 9:20 PM
Post #27 of 38
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Registered: Jan 21, 2003
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Man, I bet watching your daughter take a grounder is frickin' scary!
That start is thin.....but then again, a 14 yr old girl might get some solid jams with her skinny little fingers.
Questions of the victim's skills aside, this accident points out a very common danger/mistake MANY climbers make, myself included.
When placing gear, you are most exposed while pulling slack to clip, especially when the piece is above you. The 2nd or even 3rd piece is the MOST dangerous clip, where the extra few feet of slack can result in a grounder. It is often safer to climb higher, and clip near waist level than pull slack at or above eye level!! You have less rope out, and are less likely to dislodge gear as you climb past it.
Hope she makes a complete and speedy recovery!
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stymingersfink
Jul 6, 2004, 10:09 PM
Post #28 of 38
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Registered: Aug 12, 2003
Posts: 7250
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Sorry to hear about this unfortunate incident. I hope she gets back on that horse.
I think my first .9 trad lead was Sasquatch. That was scary enough. To get on the Coffin for a first .9 gear lead, that girl has Brass ones - about thiiiiiiis big.
Trinity:
Hope you heal quickly and with no long term side effects. Take it easy for a bit and heal up completely before you start putting stress on that wrist. Frustrating while you're waiting, but so worth it in the long run. Once you're back to 100%, keep on charging. Hard.
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veep23
Jul 7, 2004, 1:06 AM
Post #29 of 38
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Registered: May 15, 2002
Posts: 125
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Tav. I work for Ch.2! I don't remember hearing anything on the 10 about a "foot peg" but then again I only worked on the story for the 5. The only silly thing I heard on the 10 was "it was a 5.9 SLOPE grade". As for the age descrepancy, sherrifs office said she was fourteen, hospital spokesperson said she was twelve and, after the interview, dad couldn't be reached to clarify. Reporter went with hospital cause they generally know how old their patients are (not in this case apparently). So... I can assure u that nothing ignorant was said about climbing while I was on the story. :P
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dimitri
Jul 7, 2004, 4:15 AM
Post #30 of 38
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Registered: Jun 17, 2004
Posts: 31
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I hope your daughter gets better soon. :D
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djmacedonas
Jul 11, 2004, 8:07 PM
Post #31 of 38
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Registered: Jul 11, 2002
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In reply to: On another note, I think having a massive rack helps too. You always have the appropriate piece for the appropriate spot, instead of trying to make something else "work" there instead.
There are many who would agree with you here, dimitri! :twisted: :lol:
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pneumoped
Jul 16, 2004, 9:41 PM
Post #32 of 38
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Registered: Jun 2, 2004
Posts: 32
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I’ve only taken one true fall while leading trad. I was climbing a fist sized crack in a right facing dihedral called Wolf’s Tooth on Twin Owls in Rocky Mountain National Park. I had placed two cams and my foot was jammed into the crack about 2 feet above my last placement when I fell about 8 feet plus a couple feet of rope stretch. The cam held just fine. The fall did two things for me. It scared me pretty good and it also built confidence that properly placed protection will hold.
For me, when trad leading, I climb not to fall and I don’t think of my trad pro as an excuse to push the limit but rather a backup to my falling. I choose to push the limit a little more when sport leading and a lot more when top-roping. I believe I do this due to a psychological impression that trad gear is not as bomber as sport bolts even though logic and my one experience tells me that a properly placed piece of pro will hold a reasonable fall. Obviously, my hesitance with my trad pro is based on my confidence in placing the pro. “Will that Grey TCU hold a five foot fall,” I ask myself. The only way to know for sure is to fall on it. Yet, I don’t think it is a good idea to subject oneself to such experiments where the failure of a piece could result in serious injury.
Short of actually testing the equipment, I think the best way is to have a good teacher and gain lots of experience in placing pro. Fortunately, my climbing partner has much more experience than I do and we talk about good placements and critique each others placements. Thinking through protection placement scenarios while sipping margaritas in Cozumel is good too. When I’m climbing with others and waiting my turn, sometimes I’ll get out my rack and place pro along the base of the climb for practice.
The bottom line is that it is up to each climber to decide how hard to push their climbing abilities while leading on trad. I’m probably a little more conservative than I need to be and thus, my advancement to higher grades of climbing comes more slowly. Yet, as long as I’m having fun, I’m not too worried about catching up to Chris Sharma.
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pneumoped
Jul 16, 2004, 9:53 PM
Post #33 of 38
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Registered: Jun 2, 2004
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In reply to: Not me. I need to start pushing my TRAD limits on SPORT!! I've redpointed (yes, taken falls on) 11b trad. Funny thing is... I've fallen T.R.ing the same routes after leading them clean!!
That does not surprise me. I’m the same way. When leading on trad, I almost never fall, but can top rope the same climb and fall. I’m quite sure that the idea of falling while leading makes us focus more on the climb and completing it clean. When we are top roped and have experience falling on top rope we know we are going nowhere and let our guard down somewhat. I’ve seen this happen to my climbing partners as well.
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breaksnclimbs
Jul 16, 2004, 10:08 PM
Post #34 of 38
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Registered: Dec 9, 2003
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In reply to: I’m quite sure that the idea of falling while leading makes us focus more on the climb and completing it clean. When we are top roped and have experience falling on top rope we know we are going nowhere and let our guard down somewhat.
Definitely true!! Good point :P
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coylec
Jul 17, 2004, 7:44 AM
Post #35 of 38
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Registered: Jul 12, 2003
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In reply to: Easiest way to learn to place good gear fast is to aid on gear. Aiding is boring for someone else to belay, so set up a toprope and either bel;ay yourself on a fig8 knot, or a grigri with a figure 8 tied below it. That way you only have a limited piece of crack (your reach) to place the next piece in, you have to weight it, and you have to get it out. The other stuff (slinging, drag, double ropes, tieing clusters together) you can work out later.
i learned it by doing traverses ... no rope required, just focus on the gear. it was especially useful because only had limited numbers of gear ... and aiding EATS gear. Put a piece in with a double running attached to it. stand in runner ... if the piece fails, you drop, what, a foot? enough to reason you don't ever wanna place it that way but not enough to hurt ya.
coylec
coylec
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flipnfall
Jul 17, 2004, 1:23 PM
Post #36 of 38
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Registered: May 18, 2004
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Been climbing over 15 years, mostly trad and taken mucho falls. Not a single placement has ever failed but I have had placements walk out. I don't know why they haven't, but after watching others fall I suspect that they will infrequently fail for experienced climbers. Even watching inexperienced climbers, I haven't seen more than a single failure. None have lead to injury so I suspect that the injury we are talking about is rare.
Be careful but you can trust most good placements and if in doubt zip-up the route for redundancy sake.
GT
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mtselman
Jul 17, 2004, 2:26 PM
Post #37 of 38
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Registered: Jan 9, 2002
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In reply to: Here is a post from what I conder a direct source: .... She placed a number 4 stopper in a pin scar about 8 feet off the deck, and continued up to where her head was at the point where the twin cracks converge. She then reached up and placed a 0.5 TCU in the base of the main crack and attempted to clip into the piece. As she drew the slack up to the piece, her feet cut loose before she clipped the piece and she fell about 18 feet to the ground. Her belayer was unable to pull in enough slack to stop the fall from grounding.
Two words here: DOUBLE ROPES.
Alternate the clips and you never have that extra slack which gets you to the ground....
Wishing a speedy and complete recovery!!!
--Misha
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rtc
Jul 30, 2004, 1:09 AM
Post #38 of 38
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Registered: May 22, 2004
Posts: 53
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The thing that taught me the most was following and cleaning gear. man, a good teacher is priceless. Ifollowed for 2/3 years before I had any thoughts of leading. I thought the guy was crazy. know when I think back at what I learned, i dont think id be leading still without it. Its easy to buy a set of nuts or a cam and find a hole that fits. but seeing imagination at work i think has helped with mine. really aint no rules except cover you a**. things like nut opposition, slinging nubbins, hex and stoppers turned sideways or endways for better placement stacking stoppers/pitons/bongs/biners/rocks or anything else you put together to fill the gap , may have taking years to learn without following. so anyway I dont mean to spew and i dont know how to start a new paragraph. But if were talking about learning to place pro you can trust. Learn from the old guys,just my o :) pinion
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