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clam
May 31, 2002, 6:44 PM
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I see a set of RPs recommended for a runout section of a climb I would like to do. What are RPs? And what would a set be?
Thanks.
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melonhead
May 31, 2002, 7:06 PM
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RP's are very small wires. Micros if you will. A good set can cost up to like $80 or so. I think that's what the BD's go for anyway.
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phylp
May 31, 2002, 7:20 PM
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Also consider investing in a few screamers or equivalent - these are the stiff sewn slings with mutiple sewn bar tacks that are designed to pop serially when shock loaded. They will take some of the force of a fall off the RP, which can sometimes make the difference between the piece failing or staying intact. I've experienced them working as designed in falls on small gear.
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bradhill
May 31, 2002, 7:34 PM
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RP stands for "Really Poor". If you do a good job of placement and put scream-aids on them, they might slow you down as you fall.
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radistrad
May 31, 2002, 7:38 PM
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Rp's are made by Pacific Crossing, they are usually used for aid climbs, the smallest is only rated to about double body weight.
If you are considering buying some micro nuts you should also consider HB Offsets, they are awesome.
Like phylp said you should use a screamer on a micro nut, they do not install confidence when placing them.
From my experience I've only seen Rp's called for on hard (5.12) trad climbs and on aid pitches.
Becareful and dont get in over your head.
And to finish the question, there are 6 RP's in a set.
www.shorelinemtn.com sells them, free shipping in CA on orders over $50
They do still sell RP's int America...
[ This Message was edited by: radistrad on 2002-05-31 12:48 ]
[ This Message was edited by: radistrad on 2002-05-31 13:41 ]
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grinch
May 31, 2002, 8:39 PM
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>RP stands for "Really Poor". If you do a >good job of placement and put scream-aids >on them, they might slow you down as you >fall.
Actually, RPs are named after their inventor, Roland Pollack (sp?). He's an Australian Mt. Arapiles climber, from back in the day...
While most small welded nuts are called RPs it is, in fact, a brand name for the original design (just like 'Friends'). Real RPs are no longer available in the US because of the cost of UIAA certification (so I'm told)- but most folks that I know seem to use the Black Diamond version called Swedges. They work very nicely, but they're not cheap.
The story I heard when I was in Oz was that real RPs are still being hand made by their inventor in his garage. They were still for sale in all of the gear shops down under, but it's the odd old geezer who still has real RPs on his rack in the US nowadays..
As for the "Really Poor" bit, well- they're certainly not as inspiring as a #2 Camalot. But- their welded design, I'm told, makes them much stronger than their swaged counterparts. They fit in some types or rock like magic and the larger sizes actually seem like they could hold a proper screamer.
BTW: It's just my personal opinion, but if you're not sure what an RP is, it might not be the best time to jump on a route that 'requires' them... I'd buy a set of BD Swedges and get to know them a bit before you do anything with something as dicy as a proper RP seam.
Grinch
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clam
May 31, 2002, 8:57 PM
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The original poster responds! The route is Deception Direct at Lover's Leap (5.9). The topo calls for RPs at a runout section. From the posts I have learned that I actually have a set of RPs (American variety) and have used them. I simply did not know that they were called RPs. When I saw RP on the topo I immediately thought of RURPs - Realized Ultimate Reality Pitons. Couldn't be that on a trad climb; but didn't know what RP meant. Now I know.
Thanks for your posts.
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bradhill
May 31, 2002, 9:11 PM
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Thanks for the cool history lesson!
Seriously, though, you really do have to be careful and expect RP protection to be really poor. Because of the small surface areas involved, a fall generates large forces that may simply pulverize weak rock like sandstone well before the wire blows.
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melonhead
May 31, 2002, 9:25 PM
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Everyone is making these things out to be rocket science. Place them like a regular nut and if you trust it.....whip!!!! But I didn't say that. Ha Ha!!!
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joemor
Jun 1, 2002, 8:29 AM
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The story I heard when I was in Oz was that real RPs are still being hand made by their inventor in his garage. They were still for sale in all of the gear shops down under, but it's the odd old geezer who still has real RPs on his rack in the US nowadays..
this is true, i own a couple but..... ive been told that there 3 or more times weaker than swedged micros. there not ce tested or anything cos there made in a garage and he can afford the costs of testing as he only makes an armfull a year.
joe
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benwyse
Jun 6, 2002, 7:45 PM
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I have been trad climbing for 6 or 7 years and find RPs or other micro nuts to be essential protection. 90 percent of my climbing has been done on Mt. Lemmon, AZ. and Seneca Rocks, WV and I have taken leader falls five times onto RP type nuts. They always have held, but I did finally buy a screamer because I felt like I was pushing my luck. All of the routes I fell off of were rated 5.10, so you don't have to get up to 5.12 to find routes that need small pro.
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atg200
Jun 6, 2002, 8:25 PM
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I whipped 35 feet onto a #2 HB bronze offset. They work fine if you place them well.
I have HBs, RPs, and the BD Copper Steel nuts. I rarely place any of them aside from the HBs.
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davep
Jun 7, 2002, 8:14 AM
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When placing RPs you've gotta consider the individual placement, type and quality of the rock, length of runout etc when you consider if it will hold. I don't think anybody should dismiss them - afterall if nothing alse fits then you're soloing. OK they're only supposed to be rated for aid, but people often take big falls onto dodgy "aid" gear and its ok. There have been numerous 45ft falls taken onto a few RPs behing a loose flake (see Hard Grit), and only last week a mate of mine fell 30ft onto a hand-placed knifeblade.
On the other hand though i know of people who have snapped the wires off RPs tugging them into placements - the moral of this story is a nut is only as strong as its wires - if it gets frayed then ditch it.
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radd
Jun 8, 2002, 2:20 PM
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This is a little of topic, but melon is right, people make placing gear out to be brain surgery. ITS NOT THAT HARD!!! OOh I dont climb trad because I cant place gear. I hear this all the time. That is such a lame excuse, placing gear gear is so basic. I climbed with a Camp 4 acid head who asked me what route were on when we were already on the THE THIRD PITCH, but all his gear was bomber(although now i screen my partners a little better). Placing cams is really basic 90% of the time. If placing nuts or rps is a problem spend some days running around the base of a crag and I guarantee you will be proficient really fast. So if your route has rps on the list, buy them, practice plaing them on TR or something. Also aid climbing will redefine what your idea of a good placement is.
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philbox
Moderator
Jul 1, 2002, 3:04 AM
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A point that has been missed in the discussion so far is, when purchasing your itty bitty brassies go for the ones where the cables enter the brass touching together. Some of the brass nuts have the cables entering too far apart and they can twist in a placement that is very shallow.
I`ve found the brass offsets to be an invaluable addition to my rack. RP`s rule especially the weeniest one, hear that cable sing like a highly strung piano wire, eeeh.
...Phil...
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taxexile
Jul 1, 2002, 8:22 AM
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As an old geezer I own a set of the original RPs (the best thing to come out of Oz since Kylie's ass) and consider them to be The Shit. I have taken (or held) quite a few whippers on RPs without screamers and without incident.
Yes, OF COURSE you need to put them in decent rock and OF COURSE you need to slot them in decent placements, and no you would not want to take a rope-length fall onto an RP 0, but they have kept my laundry bill to manageable proportions on several occasions.
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brisboy
Jul 1, 2002, 11:01 AM
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hehe phil welcome to the board
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topher
Jul 7, 2002, 5:47 PM
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this is what i dont get my partner has a few hb off sets, and i feel totaly comfrotable taking big falls on them, the # 2 &3 are both rated for 5kn so if there placed properly you could most likly take close to a class one fall on them, if you have a good rope. I still dont have the same confidence in them as lets say a nice big nut but as said earlyer you could be soloing with out them, that and most good micro nuts have a decent force rating.
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astone
Jul 7, 2002, 6:29 PM
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Rare and wonderful is a route that only takes small wires in weird pods and rivulets.
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