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omegaclimb
Dec 16, 2004, 5:10 AM
Post #1 of 8
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Registered: Nov 10, 2004
Posts: 19
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How in the heck do people decide if a problem is a V1 or a v2, 5.10a or a 5.10d. etc?
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bonin_in_the_boneyard
Dec 16, 2004, 5:35 AM
Post #2 of 8
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Registered: Nov 10, 2004
Posts: 362
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There's a commitee run by the AMGA that has a field team that goes out and inspects climbs. Once you climb a route or a problem for the first time, you give it a name, and you fill out a form that you can print from their website. It's been a while since I've done this, but it used to be you had three people climb the route, and each one chooses a grade that they think the climb deserves. Then they each put that grade on the form, sign and date it, and enclose a climbing resume. After a small wait, usually 8-12 weeks, the AMGA will contact you about verifying the route/problem. They will set a date, usually a couple weeks in advance, when you and at least one of the other climbers who's sent the route must demonstrate a clean ascent in front of the field team, who then act as a notary to certify that you indeed did climb the route. (The AMGA actually used to require that all three members of the FA team perform a whitnessed clean ascent, but they've eased their requirements in the last few years.) Then two members of the field team attempt the problem, and upon successful completion, they will each assign a grade. With the four grades in hand, the highest and the lowest are discarded, and the middle two are averaged. If the average is not an even value, the lower full number or letter grade is assigned. Naturally, because the AMGA teams are typically lowsy climbers, it can be quite difficult to assign a grade to harder problems (anything over .12 or V5) and often very hard routes/problems require repeat attempts and often bribes from the first assentionists to expedite the process. As you can imagine, it could take several years to grade a 5.14, which is why so many of them are refered to as 'Project'. I hope this helps! Happy Climbing!
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drubt
Dec 16, 2004, 5:53 AM
Post #3 of 8
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Registered: Mar 19, 2004
Posts: 196
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Bravo.
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quiteatingmysteak
Dec 16, 2004, 7:47 AM
Post #4 of 8
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Registered: Dec 15, 2004
Posts: 804
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As far as gym climbing goes, the problem I see with people setting their own routes and grading goes as this: "I climb v3's, and thats a v4 because it took a while to send it." - 2 weeks later - "I climbed my v4, and THIS NEW ONE was harder than that, so it's probably a v5." - so on and so forth, until there are v7's that even a novice could flash. I have seen this done, and it is annoying. Likewise, areas where I am from (So Cal - woodson, etc) depends on the climber who rated them in the first place. A reachy problem will get a lower grade from a tall person, a hard overhang will be over rated (sometimes). I never know how a grade will end up being, if grades were really to be accurated they would have to give into accout rock type, crack or face, lenght, etc etc, and while some do, until you get into the competitive .12 - .14 grades, it's all ballpark, in my experience. :P
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hebeto
Dec 17, 2004, 6:23 AM
Post #5 of 8
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Registered: Dec 17, 2004
Posts: 13
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I hear you, quiteatingmysteak. Good point about ratings in climbing gyms. Of the ones I've gone to here in the northeast, that tends to be the case. I know it's probably difficult to set up routes with the intent of making it a v4 or v5 or any other rating, but there should be some sort of regulation or new system. In my opinion, its all dependent on personal experience when evaluating a route. Basically, I believe that a person has to be the judge of what they are capable of handling or not. I've even been to some gyms that come up with their own rating system and it just doesn't matter to me. Over time, I've become accustomed to recognizing the level of a route by considering some of the factors that quiteatingmysteak mentioned, such as rock type, face, holds, and such. Anyways, everywhere I go and everyone I talk to has their own point of view or perspective of a route and its rating.
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guangzhou
Dec 17, 2004, 6:57 AM
Post #6 of 8
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Registered: Sep 27, 2004
Posts: 3389
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In reply to: There's a commitee run by the AMGA that has a field team that goes out and inspects climbs. Once you climb a route or a problem for the first time, you give it a name, and you fill out a form that you can print from their website. It's been a while since I've done this, but it used to be you had three people climb the route, and each one chooses a grade that they think the climb deserves. Then they each put that grade on the form, sign and date it, and enclose a climbing resume. After a small wait, usually 8-12 weeks, the AMGA will contact you about verifying the route/problem. They will set a date, usually a couple weeks in advance, when you and at least one of the other climbers who's sent the route must demonstrate a clean ascent in front of the field team, who then act as a notary to certify that you indeed did climb the route. (The AMGA actually used to require that all three members of the FA team perform a whitnessed clean ascent, but they've eased their requirements in the last few years.) Then two members of the field team attempt the problem, and upon successful completion, they will each assign a grade. With the four grades in hand, the highest and the lowest are discarded, and the middle two are averaged. If the average is not an even value, the lower full number or letter grade is assigned. Naturally, because the AMGA teams are typically lowsy climbers, it can be quite difficult to assign a grade to harder problems (anything over .12 or V5) and often very hard routes/problems require repeat attempts and often bribes from the first assentionists to expedite the process. As you can imagine, it could take several years to grade a 5.14, which is why so many of them are refered to as 'Project'. I hope this helps! Happy Climbing! Finally, this is one of the best post I have read on this site, THANks. Not just for a good read, but for clarifying the process. I always thought it was the American Alpine CLub that rated routes.
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curt
Dec 17, 2004, 7:07 AM
Post #7 of 8
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Registered: Aug 27, 2002
Posts: 18275
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In reply to: As far as gym climbing goes, the problem I see with people setting their own routes and grading goes as this: "I climb v3's, and thats a v4 because it took a while to send it." - 2 weeks later - "I climbed my v4, and THIS NEW ONE was harder than that, so it's probably a v5." - so on and so forth, until there are v7's that even a novice could flash. I have seen this done, and it is annoying. Likewise, areas where I am from (So Cal - woodson, etc) depends on the climber who rated them in the first place. A reachy problem will get a lower grade from a tall person, a hard overhang will be over rated (sometimes). I never know how a grade will end up being, if grades were really to be accurated they would have to give into accout rock type, crack or face, lenght, etc etc, and while some do, until you get into the competitive .12 - .14 grades, it's all ballpark, in my experience. :P Woodson is easy to figure out--everything hard there is 5.11c. Haha. What could be simpler? Curt
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climbsomething
Dec 17, 2004, 7:51 AM
Post #8 of 8
(1178 views)
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Registered: May 30, 2002
Posts: 8588
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In reply to: In reply to: There's a commitee run by the AMGA that has a field team that goes out and inspects climbs. Once you climb a route or a problem for the first time, you give it a name, and you fill out a form that you can print from their website. It's been a while since I've done this, but it used to be you had three people climb the route, and each one chooses a grade that they think the climb deserves. Then they each put that grade on the form, sign and date it, and enclose a climbing resume. After a small wait, usually 8-12 weeks, the AMGA will contact you about verifying the route/problem. They will set a date, usually a couple weeks in advance, when you and at least one of the other climbers who's sent the route must demonstrate a clean ascent in front of the field team, who then act as a notary to certify that you indeed did climb the route. (The AMGA actually used to require that all three members of the FA team perform a whitnessed clean ascent, but they've eased their requirements in the last few years.) Then two members of the field team attempt the problem, and upon successful completion, they will each assign a grade. With the four grades in hand, the highest and the lowest are discarded, and the middle two are averaged. If the average is not an even value, the lower full number or letter grade is assigned. Naturally, because the AMGA teams are typically lowsy climbers, it can be quite difficult to assign a grade to harder problems (anything over .12 or V5) and often very hard routes/problems require repeat attempts and often bribes from the first assentionists to expedite the process. As you can imagine, it could take several years to grade a 5.14, which is why so many of them are refered to as 'Project'. I hope this helps! Happy Climbing! Finally, this is one of the best post I have read on this site, THANks. Not just for a good read, but for clarifying the process. I always thought it was the American Alpine CLub that rated routes. I thougt it was the B-squad from the Luxembourg National Team.
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