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hansol04
Jun 15, 2009, 1:39 AM
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Hey guys,
Rookie question, but what exactly IS a general mountaineering axe for? What cool things can a guy do with one?
Forgive my ignorance, but even after a google search, I can't seem to find anything about how/what a mountaineering axe is used for. I've seen an ice axe for vertical climbing in use, but never a general mountaineering axe.
Hopefully you guys can set me straight. Cheers!
(This post was edited by hansol04 on Jun 15, 2009, 1:39 AM)
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skiclimb
Jun 15, 2009, 1:42 AM
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Self arrest tool. look it up or read Mountaineering Freedom of the Hills.
Handy for various belay techniques, self anchoring and as an anchor component also a walking stick for steeper terrain.
(This post was edited by skiclimb on Jun 15, 2009, 1:44 AM)
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uni_jim
Jun 15, 2009, 3:51 AM
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cutting steps, self arrest, cutting slots/bollards for belays, as a component of a t-slot, fighting off marmots, roasting marshmallows, etc.
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sungam
Jun 15, 2009, 3:52 AM
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skiclimb wrote: Self arrest tool. look it up or read Mountaineering Freedom of the Hills. Handy for various belay techniques, self anchoring and as an anchor component also a walking stick for steeper terrain.
easy climbing (dunno what you call it, we call it scottish II)
Clearing ice chunks while digging caves.
Breaking frozen choci bars into eatable chunks.
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hansol04
Jun 15, 2009, 3:56 AM
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Hey guys, thanks for all the replies! That's exactly what I was looking for.
As an aside, is it worth bringing along an axe for summer scrambles (Alberta rockies, 3000ish meter summits with little snow), or is it generally used for higher/snowier/icier assents?
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skiclimb
Jun 15, 2009, 3:58 AM
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No 35deg + snow ...No axe
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hacksaw
Jun 15, 2009, 4:07 AM
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sungam wrote: skiclimb wrote: Self arrest tool. look it up or read Mountaineering Freedom of the Hills. Handy for various belay techniques, self anchoring and as an anchor component also a walking stick for steeper terrain. Chopping steps, though I've never done that. easy climbing (dunno what you call it, we call it scottish II) Clearing ice chunks while digging caves. Breaking frozen choci bars into eatable chunks.
Probing for cravasses...
Fighting off unleashed stupid-meanass dogs...
Breaking car windows after your climbing partner lost the car keys... Turns out he locked the keys in the car.
lashing to the center pole of a Mckinley tent to keep the pole from breaking during an 80 - 90 mph storm..
Digging rain runoff trenches around your stupid Chouniad tarp tent on Rainier....
Self-belaying/anchoring yourself as you escort a bodybag down a steep icy slope...
Chopping steps in ice, because you didn't bring crampons for your in EB's. 
Chopping down small trees for building a fire after you run out of white gas for you're stove...
And of course digging cat holes to sh*t in. 
Oh, and self-aresting when you happen to lose it on those pesky lower angle snow/ice slopes....
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skiclimb
Jun 15, 2009, 4:19 AM
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hacksaw wrote: sungam wrote: skiclimb wrote: Self arrest tool. look it up or read Mountaineering Freedom of the Hills. Handy for various belay techniques, self anchoring and as an anchor component also a walking stick for steeper terrain. Chopping steps, though I've never done that. easy climbing (dunno what you call it, we call it scottish II) Clearing ice chunks while digging caves. Breaking frozen choci bars into eatable chunks. Probing for cravasses... Fighting off unleashed stupid-meanass dogs... Breaking car windows after your climbing partner lost the car keys... Turns out he locked the keys in the car. lashing to the center pole of a Mckinley tent to keep the pole from breaking during an 80 - 90 mph storm.. Digging rain runoff trenches around your stupid Chouniad tarp tent on Rainier.... Self-belaying/anchoring yourself as you escort a bodybag down a steep icy slope... Chopping steps in ice, because you didn't bring crampons for your in EB's. Chopping down small trees for building a fire after you run out of white gas for you're stove... And of course digging cat holes to sh*t in. Oh, and self-aresting when you happen to lose it on those pesky lower angle snow/ice slopes....
Don't forget stabbing Muthafucka's In the heart!!!!!
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uni_jim
Jun 15, 2009, 4:23 AM
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hansol04 wrote: is it worth bringing along an axe for summer scrambles (Alberta rockies, 3000ish meter summits with little snow), or is it generally used for higher/snowier/icier assents?
for harder summer scrambling,an axe won't help too much, you are better off with a short rope (check out the beal rando 20m), two double length slings, and two locking biners. Learn to sling boulders/trees and give a hip belay when you need it.
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hacksaw
Jun 15, 2009, 4:32 AM
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skiclimb wrote: hacksaw wrote: sungam wrote: skiclimb wrote: Self arrest tool. look it up or read Mountaineering Freedom of the Hills. Handy for various belay techniques, self anchoring and as an anchor component also a walking stick for steeper terrain. Chopping steps, though I've never done that. easy climbing (dunno what you call it, we call it scottish II) Clearing ice chunks while digging caves. Breaking frozen choci bars into eatable chunks. Probing for cravasses... Fighting off unleashed stupid-meanass dogs... Breaking car windows after your climbing partner lost the car keys... Turns out he locked the keys in the car. lashing to the center pole of a Mckinley tent to keep the pole from breaking during an 80 - 90 mph storm.. Digging rain runoff trenches around your stupid Chouniad tarp tent on Rainier.... Self-belaying/anchoring yourself as you escort a bodybag down a steep icy slope... Chopping steps in ice, because you didn't bring crampons for your in EB's. Chopping down small trees for building a fire after you run out of white gas for you're stove... And of course digging cat holes to sh*t in. Oh, and self-aresting when you happen to lose it on those pesky lower angle snow/ice slopes.... Don't forget stabbing Muthafucka's In the heart!!!!!
Oh, and that too....
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Guran
Jun 15, 2009, 8:21 AM
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hacksaw wrote: Probing for cravasses... Fighting off unleashed stupid-meanass dogs... Breaking car windows after your climbing partner lost the car keys... Turns out he locked the keys in the car. lashing to the center pole of a Mckinley tent to keep the pole from breaking during an 80 - 90 mph storm.. Digging rain runoff trenches around your stupid Chouniad tarp tent on Rainier.... Self-belaying/anchoring yourself as you escort a bodybag down a steep icy slope... Chopping steps in ice, because you didn't bring crampons for your in EB's. Chopping down small trees for building a fire after you run out of white gas for you're stove... And of course digging cat holes to sh*t in. Oh, and self-aresting when you happen to lose it on those pesky lower angle snow/ice slopes....
Climbing most anything below vertical. (As long as You have hands-free stances one axe gets You up more than you'd think)
And most importantly: An alpine axe maxes You look really cool in an old school way.
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shoo
Jun 15, 2009, 12:05 PM
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If you've never seen how to use an mountaineering axe, you should probably watch Vertical Limit. It's the most accurate and well respected technical guide to mountaineering available.
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dan2see
Jun 15, 2009, 1:52 PM
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In winter, I take my axe on every outing -- hike or scramble (not doing Alpine yet!). It makes going up easy, and going back down fun.
I`ve used it every time. It`s been more useful than crampons or snowshoes.
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hacksaw
Jun 15, 2009, 5:59 PM
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Guran wrote: hacksaw wrote: Probing for cravasses... Fighting off unleashed stupid-meanass dogs... Breaking car windows after your climbing partner lost the car keys... Turns out he locked the keys in the car. lashing to the center pole of a Mckinley tent to keep the pole from breaking during an 80 - 90 mph storm.. Digging rain runoff trenches around your stupid Chouniad tarp tent on Rainier.... Self-belaying/anchoring yourself as you escort a bodybag down a steep icy slope... Chopping steps in ice, because you didn't bring crampons for your in EB's. Chopping down small trees for building a fire after you run out of white gas for you're stove... And of course digging cat holes to sh*t in. Oh, and self-aresting when you happen to lose it on those pesky lower angle snow/ice slopes.... Climbing most anything below vertical. (As long as You have hands-free stances one axe gets You up more than you'd think) And most importantly: An alpine axe maxes You look really cool in an old school way.
You're only "old school cool," if your ice ax is one with a strait wooden shaft.
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sungam
Jun 16, 2009, 2:37 AM
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Guran wrote: Climbing most anything below vertical. (As long as You have hands-free stances one axe gets You up more than you'd think) And most importantly: An alpine axe maxes You look really cool in an old school way.
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harpo_the_climber
Jun 17, 2009, 4:18 PM
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For summer scrabling where you are brining an ice axe "just in case", I prefer a Black Diamond Whippet. When skiing, I use it with a one piece lower, but when hiking, I use a two piece lower I bought as a spare part from BD. This allows it to be collapsed much smaller for stowing on you pack while scrabling.
The Whippet is a trecking/skiing pole with an ice axe pick attached to the grip. I have self arrested in anger with it, and you can use it as a trecking pole when there is no snow. Lighter than an axe too.
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evanwish
Jun 18, 2009, 7:26 AM
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for the OP:
this winter i climbed a small peak in Tahoe (Angora Peak from Fallen Leaf) and we each went up with the asistance of an ice axe. It was extremely helpfull for the last 50 feet where it was around 60 degrees in steepness.
on the way down we walked down our steps facing the snow using our axes for support, after the steep section it eased to between 15-30 degrees and we glissaded down 1500 feet elevation.
glissading is soooooo nice! you go down in 20 minutes what took you hours to hike up.
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sungam
Jun 18, 2009, 10:15 AM
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evanwish wrote: glissading is soooooo nice! you go down in 20 minutes what took you hours to hike up.
(the route goes more or less straight up the middle)
As we neared the summit we started to feel a change from the windless bluebird conditions as the wind (previously shielded from us by the hulking mass of rock) rushing over the summit ridge start to blow great waves of spindrift into our faces. Unfortunately (yeah, yeah, I know - I'm fat) I had sat on my ski goggles a week and a bit earlier and broke the lens, so we had one pair between to. Eager to show that Albertans really are harder then Scots (well, that Albertan was certainly tougher then this Scot) he gave me his goggles. As we topped out over the slowly growing cornice we truely got blasted. I'm talking pulling your spare gloves out and trying to somehow use them to block your face from the attacking ice particles. It didn't work. He took the goggles back. I kinda shuffled along the summit ridge towards the descent corrie with my arms over my face trying to keep the back of his feet in sight. We joined another group behind a large boulder for a few moments of a wee break from the facial pain. Both Gig and I and the other group all set off at once. We got to the top of the descent corrie/gully thing. It had a 15/20 section of vertical neve/snow at the top, then shot steeply down just short of two thousand feet of gradually leveling wannabe-neve-snow. I watched (though the gaps in my sleeves) as Gig proceeded to take off his crampons, put an ice axe away, and literally seriously I-shit-you-fucking-not jumps off the fucking ledge. Like, doesn't step off, he fucking hops off. By the time I get to the edge and look down (now oblivious to the stinging wind) he's a thousand feet below me and laughing his ass off. I couldn't believe how fucking fast he was going. He was down within a minute/minute and a half.
I downclimbed the top 20/25 feet, chopped a ledge, and followed suit (albiet much more slowly). Once at the bottom we walked th 40 minutes to the car to arrive precisely at the meeting time with our ride. Our ride was an hour late. From the carpark we could see the corrie floor. The party who opted to downclimb/walk down the entire slope wasn't visible when our ride showed up. We must have saved over an hour by glissading, not to mention the worthy buzz.
Did I mention that this lad rolled the fattest Jay I'd seen in a looong time and smoked it while belaying me on the scariest and hardest tard mixt pith I've ever climbed, on the FA? At one point I was thrashing my feet around like a retard in ice skates with his hands nailed to the ceiling when I hear him shout up "yeah mhan, yoo gog ih!" - he was shouting encouragement with a freaking joint hanging out his mouth!
Somehow his confidence in me (I guess he didn't think I'd fall off, otherwise he wouldn't have lit up) rubbed off and I managed to not eat shit. He sailed up the thing effortlessly, edging on these tiny smears like they were freaking ledges. Looking forward to climbing with him again this winter.
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dondada
Jun 18, 2009, 11:11 AM
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skiclimb wrote: read Mountaineering Freedom of the Hills.
a must have PDR for the mountains...read this cover to cover and you can say " I know what the F im doing"...as well as avoiding about a million google serches and RC.com pissing contests
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csproul
Jun 18, 2009, 1:57 PM
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dondada wrote: skiclimb wrote: read Mountaineering Freedom of the Hills. agreed a must have PDR for the mountains... read this cover to cover and you can say " I know what the F im doing"...as well as avoiding about a million google serches and RC.com pissing contests
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dondada
Jun 18, 2009, 4:32 PM
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csproul wrote: dondada wrote: skiclimb wrote: read Mountaineering Freedom of the Hills. agreed a must have PDR for the mountains... read this cover to cover and you can say " I know what the F im doing"...as well as avoiding about a million google serches and RC.com pissing contests That's some funny shit. As if reading a book will ever lead someone to "know what the F im doing"!
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ryanb
Jun 18, 2009, 6:04 PM
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dondada wrote: csproul wrote: dondada wrote: skiclimb wrote: read Mountaineering Freedom of the Hills. agreed a must have PDR for the mountains... read this cover to cover and you can say " I know what the F im doing"...as well as avoiding about a million google serches and RC.com pissing contests That's some funny shit. As if reading a book will ever lead someone to "know what the F im doing"! sorry i didn't elaborate....of course not just reading the book, but practicing and taking to heart the wealth of mountaineering knowledge a book like that offers is a pretty good start to knowing what the F your doing. i'd rather be in the mountains with someone who had an encyclopedic knowledge of that book than someone who can pull 5.12 but doesn't know how to build a snow cave or ice anchor.
Funny, one of my climbing partners--a super solid climber who has solo'd the super coulour on mnt. blanc and lead 5.12 on gear at index-- and I were talking about how we learned to climb. He learned out of that book and is pretty sure it would have gotten him killed if he hadn't started hooking up with more experienced climbers.
The breadth of that book is impressive but the depth is severely lacking and much of it is out of date and only makes sense on extremely easy terrain. If you naively apply some the ideas it contains (particularly the technical climbing and navigation sections if memory servers) on modern moderates you are doing things inefficiently and possibly putting yourself at risk.
There are much better books out there that deal with specific topics (John Long, Peter Croft, John Midendorf, Mark Twight have all written good ones) however real competence comes only with millage...read as much as you can and climb and talk with as many experienced people as you can and always think critically about which ideas you will use and which you wont.
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dondada
Jun 18, 2009, 6:20 PM
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ryanb wrote: dondada wrote: csproul wrote: dondada wrote: skiclimb wrote: read Mountaineering Freedom of the Hills. agreed a must have PDR for the mountains... read this cover to cover and you can say " I know what the F im doing"...as well as avoiding about a million google serches and RC.com pissing contests That's some funny shit. As if reading a book will ever lead someone to "know what the F im doing"! sorry i didn't elaborate....of course not just reading the book, but practicing and taking to heart the wealth of mountaineering knowledge a book like that offers is a pretty good start to knowing what the F your doing. i'd rather be in the mountains with someone who had an encyclopedic knowledge of that book than someone who can pull 5.12 but doesn't know how to build a snow cave or ice anchor. Funny, one of my climbing partners--a super solid climber who has solo'd the super coulour on mnt. blanc and lead 5.12 on gear at index-- and I were talking about how we learned to climb. He learned out of that book and is pretty sure it would have gotten him killed if he hadn't started hooking up with more experienced climbers. The breadth of that book is impressive but the depth is severely lacking and much of it is out of date and only makes sense on extremely easy terrain. If you naively apply some the ideas it contains (particularly the technical climbing and navigation sections if memory servers) on modern moderates you are doing things inefficiently and possibly putting yourself at risk. There are much better books out there that deal with specific topics (John Long, Peter Croft, John Midendorf, Mark Twight have all written good ones) however real competence comes only with millage...read as much as you can and climb and talk with as many experienced people as you can and always think critically about which ideas you will use and which you wont.
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