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altelis
Jan 6, 2011, 6:12 PM
Post #251 of 285
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majid_sabet wrote: j_ung wrote: Personally, I wouldn't hesitate to remove such a draw from any route in the world, even if I didn't have the gear necessary to replace it. However, the draw in the link you posted WAS NOT A PROJECT DRAW. Yet again you have made a point that is not in dispute, and have done so as though you were Indiana Jones shooting the sword guy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkLXdLgOybEI sure didn't take any oath before I started. Who do I talk to in order to correct this oversight? As a sworn climber ,its our duty to clean dangerous or worn fixed equipment and there are no argument there but are we going to be lucky in detecting every one of these ? |
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jakedatc
Jan 6, 2011, 6:13 PM
Post #252 of 285
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j_ung wrote: majid_sabet wrote: j_ung wrote: Personally, I wouldn't hesitate to remove such a draw from any route in the world, even if I didn't have the gear necessary to replace it. However, the draw in the link you posted WAS NOT A PROJECT DRAW. Yet again you have made a point that is not in dispute, and have done so as though you were Indiana Jones shooting the sword guy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkLXdLgOybEAs a sworn climber ,its our duty to clean dangerous or worn fixed equipment and there are no argument there but are we going to be lucky in detecting every one of these ? Project draws are by definition temporary. Nobody is arguing that worn fixed gear (which is by definition not temporary) shouldn't be removed.
removed and hopefully replaced.. that is what bail biners are for.
majid is too slow in the head to grasp that people pay attention to the gear and routes they are climbing on. It was a rare and dumb mistake for the RRG person to not see that the first bolt was worn through like that. considering it happened once and there are hundreds of draws up at the Red like others have said it a weak piece of evidence.
I would hazard a guess that majid has never climbed on a route with fixed or project draws on it so his experience is pretty limited.
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suprasoup
Jan 6, 2011, 6:16 PM
Post #253 of 285
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altelis wrote: majid_sabet wrote: j_ung wrote: Personally, I wouldn't hesitate to remove such a draw from any route in the world, even if I didn't have the gear necessary to replace it. However, the draw in the link you posted WAS NOT A PROJECT DRAW. Yet again you have made a point that is not in dispute, and have done so as though you were Indiana Jones shooting the sword guy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkLXdLgOybEI sure didn't take any oath before I started. Who do I talk to in order to correct this oversight? As a sworn climber ,its our duty to clean dangerous or worn fixed equipment and there are no argument there but are we going to be lucky in detecting every one of these ?
You talk to this man:
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lena_chita
Moderator
Jan 6, 2011, 7:59 PM
Post #254 of 285
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jakedatc wrote: j_ung wrote: majid_sabet wrote: j_ung wrote: Personally, I wouldn't hesitate to remove such a draw from any route in the world, even if I didn't have the gear necessary to replace it. However, the draw in the link you posted WAS NOT A PROJECT DRAW. Yet again you have made a point that is not in dispute, and have done so as though you were Indiana Jones shooting the sword guy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkLXdLgOybEAs a sworn climber ,its our duty to clean dangerous or worn fixed equipment and there are no argument there but are we going to be lucky in detecting every one of these ? Project draws are by definition temporary. Nobody is arguing that worn fixed gear (which is by definition not temporary) shouldn't be removed. removed and hopefully replaced.. that is what bail biners are for. majid is too slow in the head to grasp that people pay attention to the gear and routes they are climbing on. It was a rare and dumb mistake for the RRG person to not see that the first bolt was worn through like that. considering it happened once and there are hundreds of draws up at the Red like others have said it a weak piece of evidence. I would hazard a guess that majid has never climbed on a route with fixed or project draws on it so his experience is pretty limited.
I am guessing that he considers project and fixed draws to be the same.
Sometimes there is evolution where project draws eventualy become fixed draws.
For example, my understanding is that the Undertow Wall at the Lode didn't used to have draws hanging on climbs like Chainsaw or Ale8. Then there were random motley draws that were hanging there most of the time. Then the draw before the crux got a chain. And then, eventually, this fall all the draws became true "fixed" draws.
I can see this happening over time...
Community consensus changes over time, and things are not black and white, or decided on any sort of "scientific" or consistent basis.
But some people just can't grasp that. They want it to be simple cleare=-cut black-and-white one-size-fits-all. More specifically, they want THEIR 'size' to fit all.
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bearbreeder
Jan 7, 2011, 8:22 AM
Post #256 of 285
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majid_sabet wrote: jakedatc wrote: point? check the gear you clip and replace it if it is needed. gumby fucking noob whos call who a n00b ? listen you weak hot dog , when you were little sucking milkee off your mama , I was climbing you are still sucking some other type of milk and I am still climbing here add some sugar and do not bite he may not like it
mista majid ... when u project yr 5.7 routes ... im sure you can take off all yr draws 
majid looks ... ooooo ... theres draws hanging ... ooo they must all be unsafe .... i must save all those idiot 5.14 climbers from certain death ... take all the draws!!! .... cause majid is ALWAYS right
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lena_chita
Moderator
Jan 7, 2011, 4:10 PM
Post #257 of 285
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cracklover wrote: lena_chita wrote: But some people just can't grasp that. They want it to be simple cleare=-cut black-and-white one-size-fits-all. More specifically, they want THEIR 'size' to fit all. I can see where they're coming from. It can be frustrating. My "size" does not fit all. I discovered this some years ago. You simply have to learn to accommodate accordingly. Wait, what are we talking about? GO
Not THAT.
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cracklover
Jan 7, 2011, 4:25 PM
Post #258 of 285
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lena_chita wrote: cracklover wrote: lena_chita wrote: But some people just can't grasp that. They want it to be simple cleare=-cut black-and-white one-size-fits-all. More specifically, they want THEIR 'size' to fit all. I can see where they're coming from. It can be frustrating. My "size" does not fit all. I discovered this some years ago. You simply have to learn to accommodate accordingly. Wait, what are we talking about? GO Not THAT.
I was talking about... um... crack climbing - yeah that's it. What did you think I meant?
G
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spikeddem
Jan 7, 2011, 4:36 PM
Post #259 of 285
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cracklover wrote: lena_chita wrote: cracklover wrote: lena_chita wrote: But some people just can't grasp that. They want it to be simple cleare=-cut black-and-white one-size-fits-all. More specifically, they want THEIR 'size' to fit all. I can see where they're coming from. It can be frustrating. My "size" does not fit all. I discovered this some years ago. You simply have to learn to accommodate accordingly. Wait, what are we talking about? GO Not THAT. I was talking about... um... crack climbing - yeah that's it. What did you think I meant? G
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cracklover
Jan 7, 2011, 4:49 PM
Post #260 of 285
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spikeddem wrote: cracklover wrote: lena_chita wrote: cracklover wrote: lena_chita wrote: But some people just can't grasp that. They want it to be simple cleare=-cut black-and-white one-size-fits-all. More specifically, they want THEIR 'size' to fit all. I can see where they're coming from. It can be frustrating. My "size" does not fit all. I discovered this some years ago. You simply have to learn to accommodate accordingly. Wait, what are we talking about? GO Not THAT. I was talking about... um... crack climbing - yeah that's it. What did you think I meant? G I thought you were talking about sex.
Aspergers much?
GO
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spikeddem
Jan 7, 2011, 4:53 PM
Post #261 of 285
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cracklover wrote: spikeddem wrote: cracklover wrote: lena_chita wrote: cracklover wrote: lena_chita wrote: But some people just can't grasp that. They want it to be simple cleare=-cut black-and-white one-size-fits-all. More specifically, they want THEIR 'size' to fit all. I can see where they're coming from. It can be frustrating. My "size" does not fit all. I discovered this some years ago. You simply have to learn to accommodate accordingly. Wait, what are we talking about? GO Not THAT. I was talking about... um... crack climbing - yeah that's it. What did you think I meant? G I thought you were talking about sex. Aspergers much? GO
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lena_chita
Moderator
Jan 7, 2011, 6:18 PM
Post #262 of 285
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cracklover wrote: lena_chita wrote: cracklover wrote: lena_chita wrote: But some people just can't grasp that. They want it to be simple cleare=-cut black-and-white one-size-fits-all. More specifically, they want THEIR 'size' to fit all. I can see where they're coming from. It can be frustrating. My "size" does not fit all. I discovered this some years ago. You simply have to learn to accommodate accordingly. Wait, what are we talking about? GO Not THAT. I was talking about... um... crack climbing - yeah that's it. What did you think I meant? G
One Size Fits All route at Rumney?  That's the only thing that came to mind...
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majid_sabet
Jan 7, 2011, 6:31 PM
Post #263 of 285
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sp115 wrote: majid_sabet wrote: j_ung wrote: Personally, I wouldn't hesitate to remove such a draw from any route in the world, even if I didn't have the gear necessary to replace it. However, the draw in the link you posted WAS NOT A PROJECT DRAW. Yet again you have made a point that is not in dispute, and have done so as though you were Indiana Jones shooting the sword guy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkLXdLgOybEAs a sworn climber ,its our duty to clean dangerous or worn fixed equipment and there are no argument there but are we going to be lucky in detecting every one of these ? Then replace it with something of your own. Same thing I would do while trad climbing if I came across a piece of fixed gear, a rusty piton, or a shitty bolt. In fact it happens all the time. You make it sound like someone has littered the cliff with booby-traps and forced you at gun-point to climb.
replacing bad bolt, bad hanger is not the same as replacing QDs . these guys leave QDs cause they are lazy and they don't want to waste time while climbing. They just want the zipper down fast, bang bang and go and that aint happening in my backyard.
put 10 QDs on your harness, climb like a climber, reach the hanger, clip and then go on. you can climb all day long with QDs hanging in there but take them down when you go home.
(This post was edited by majid_sabet on Jan 7, 2011, 6:33 PM)
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majid_sabet
Jan 7, 2011, 6:35 PM
Post #264 of 285
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jakedatc wrote: j_ung wrote: majid_sabet wrote: j_ung wrote: Personally, I wouldn't hesitate to remove such a draw from any route in the world, even if I didn't have the gear necessary to replace it. However, the draw in the link you posted WAS NOT A PROJECT DRAW. Yet again you have made a point that is not in dispute, and have done so as though you were Indiana Jones shooting the sword guy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkLXdLgOybEAs a sworn climber ,its our duty to clean dangerous or worn fixed equipment and there are no argument there but are we going to be lucky in detecting every one of these ? Project draws are by definition temporary. Nobody is arguing that worn fixed gear (which is by definition not temporary) shouldn't be removed. removed and hopefully replaced.. that is what bail biners are for. majid is too slow in the head to grasp that people pay attention to the gear and routes they are climbing on. It was a rare and dumb mistake for the RRG person to not see that the first bolt was worn through like that. considering it happened once and there are hundreds of draws up at the Red like others have said it a weak piece of evidence. I would hazard a guess that majid has never climbed on a route with fixed or project draws on it so his experience is pretty limited.
yaa, may be but i am writing a book on climbing accident and i got plenty of reports with blood on them
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sp115
Jan 7, 2011, 7:07 PM
Post #265 of 285
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majid_sabet wrote: sp115 wrote: majid_sabet wrote: j_ung wrote: Personally, I wouldn't hesitate to remove such a draw from any route in the world, even if I didn't have the gear necessary to replace it. However, the draw in the link you posted WAS NOT A PROJECT DRAW. Yet again you have made a point that is not in dispute, and have done so as though you were Indiana Jones shooting the sword guy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkLXdLgOybEAs a sworn climber ,its our duty to clean dangerous or worn fixed equipment and there are no argument there but are we going to be lucky in detecting every one of these ? Then replace it with something of your own. Same thing I would do while trad climbing if I came across a piece of fixed gear, a rusty piton, or a shitty bolt. In fact it happens all the time. You make it sound like someone has littered the cliff with booby-traps and forced you at gun-point to climb. replacing bad bolt, bad hanger is not the same as replacing QDs . these guys leave QDs cause they are lazy and they don't want to waste time while climbing. They just want the zipper down fast, bang bang and go and that aint happening in my backyard. put 10 QDs on your harness, climb like a climber, reach the hanger, clip and then go on. you can climb all day long with QDs hanging in there but take them down when you go home.
Lazy? That's a bit disingenuous, it's also not important. What is important in the context of this discussion is that local ethics should apply. This wasn't in your backyard, it was in somebody elses, and they get to write the rules.
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patmay81
Jan 7, 2011, 7:36 PM
Post #266 of 285
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majid_sabet wrote: bill413 wrote: adam14113 wrote: I wouldn't have been as nice as those guys I was amazed at how civil they were to him. And, at the thief's unconcern about theft. taking a draw is not against law. in fact it is against the law to leave pieces on the wall and I do not understand why lazy sport climbers have to leave their unsafe draws on every wall.loose some of those fat pounds out of your love handles and carry six freaking draws on your harness and clip and clean it after you are done.And those draws are unsafe cause you do not know how many people have taken a fall on them and one of these days, one will break and kills a climber.
one fit climber... don't steal draws!
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marc801
Jan 7, 2011, 7:49 PM
Post #267 of 285
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sp115 wrote: majid_sabet wrote: replacing bad bolt, bad hanger is not the same as replacing QDs . these guys leave QDs cause they are lazy and they don't want to waste time while climbing. They just want the zipper down fast, bang bang and go and that aint happening in my backyard. put 10 QDs on your harness, climb like a climber, reach the hanger, clip and then go on. you can climb all day long with QDs hanging in there but take them down when you go home. Lazy? That's a bit disingenuous, it's also not important. What is important in the context of this discussion is that local ethics should apply. This wasn't in your backyard, it was in somebody elses, and they get to write the rules.
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jakedatc
Jan 7, 2011, 9:08 PM
Post #268 of 285
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marc801 wrote: sp115 wrote: majid_sabet wrote: replacing bad bolt, bad hanger is not the same as replacing QDs . these guys leave QDs cause they are lazy and they don't want to waste time while climbing. They just want the zipper down fast, bang bang and go and that aint happening in my backyard. put 10 QDs on your harness, climb like a climber, reach the hanger, clip and then go on. you can climb all day long with QDs hanging in there but take them down when you go home. Lazy? That's a bit disingenuous, it's also not important. What is important in the context of this discussion is that local ethics should apply. This wasn't in your backyard, it was in somebody elses, and they get to write the rules. Alas, once again, MS is being aggressively ignorant on a subject and inexplicably still fails to understand the simple difference between project draws and perma-draws.
Majid doesn't understand a lot of simple things, sport climbing, trad climbing, wall climbing, English, the overwhelming majority wanting him to disappear.
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majid_sabet
Jan 7, 2011, 9:14 PM
Post #269 of 285
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sp115 wrote: majid_sabet wrote: sp115 wrote: majid_sabet wrote: j_ung wrote: Personally, I wouldn't hesitate to remove such a draw from any route in the world, even if I didn't have the gear necessary to replace it. However, the draw in the link you posted WAS NOT A PROJECT DRAW. Yet again you have made a point that is not in dispute, and have done so as though you were Indiana Jones shooting the sword guy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkLXdLgOybEAs a sworn climber ,its our duty to clean dangerous or worn fixed equipment and there are no argument there but are we going to be lucky in detecting every one of these ? Then replace it with something of your own. Same thing I would do while trad climbing if I came across a piece of fixed gear, a rusty piton, or a shitty bolt. In fact it happens all the time. You make it sound like someone has littered the cliff with booby-traps and forced you at gun-point to climb. replacing bad bolt, bad hanger is not the same as replacing QDs . these guys leave QDs cause they are lazy and they don't want to waste time while climbing. They just want the zipper down fast, bang bang and go and that aint happening in my backyard. put 10 QDs on your harness, climb like a climber, reach the hanger, clip and then go on. you can climb all day long with QDs hanging in there but take them down when you go home. Lazy? That's a bit disingenuous, it's also not important. What is important in the context of this discussion is that local ethics should apply. This wasn't in your backyard, it was in somebody elses, and they get to write the rules.
sorry dude
climbing rules is universal and there are no borders when it comes to ethics. you do not sh*t on any trail and same thing applies to climbing walls.
I see QDs in France, Himalayas, Patagonia and Jim Bob rock in Dixy Alabama, I will take it down.
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jakedatc
Jan 7, 2011, 9:19 PM
Post #270 of 285
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majid_sabet wrote: sp115 wrote: majid_sabet wrote: sp115 wrote: majid_sabet wrote: j_ung wrote: Personally, I wouldn't hesitate to remove such a draw from any route in the world, even if I didn't have the gear necessary to replace it. However, the draw in the link you posted WAS NOT A PROJECT DRAW. Yet again you have made a point that is not in dispute, and have done so as though you were Indiana Jones shooting the sword guy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkLXdLgOybEAs a sworn climber ,its our duty to clean dangerous or worn fixed equipment and there are no argument there but are we going to be lucky in detecting every one of these ? Then replace it with something of your own. Same thing I would do while trad climbing if I came across a piece of fixed gear, a rusty piton, or a shitty bolt. In fact it happens all the time. You make it sound like someone has littered the cliff with booby-traps and forced you at gun-point to climb. replacing bad bolt, bad hanger is not the same as replacing QDs . these guys leave QDs cause they are lazy and they don't want to waste time while climbing. They just want the zipper down fast, bang bang and go and that aint happening in my backyard. put 10 QDs on your harness, climb like a climber, reach the hanger, clip and then go on. you can climb all day long with QDs hanging in there but take them down when you go home. Lazy? That's a bit disingenuous, it's also not important. What is important in the context of this discussion is that local ethics should apply. This wasn't in your backyard, it was in somebody elses, and they get to write the rules. sorry dude climbing rules is universal and there are no borders when it comes to ethics. you do not sh*t on any trail and same thing applies to climbing walls. I see QDs in France, Himalayas, Patagonia and Jim Bob rock in Dixy Alabama, I will take it down.
please refer to diagram posted in the General thread by Cracklover. You should probably avoid admitting to such things, especially in the south.
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bill413
Jan 7, 2011, 9:24 PM
Post #271 of 285
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majid_sabet wrote: sorry dude climbing rules is universal and there are no borders when it comes to ethics. you do not sh*t on any trail and same thing applies to climbing walls. I see QDs in France, Himalayas, Patagonia and Jim Bob rock in Dixy Alabama, I will take it down.
No.
Metal pro in Frankenjura (do I have that right?) vs. almost everywhere else
New metal at the Gunks vs. new metal at Rumney
Rappel bolted routes during the bolt wars.
No. Not universal. Not timeless. Not borderless.
No matter how much, nor how little, we want it to be.
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jakedatc
Jan 7, 2011, 9:30 PM
Post #272 of 285
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bill413 wrote: majid_sabet wrote: sorry dude climbing rules is universal and there are no borders when it comes to ethics. you do not sh*t on any trail and same thing applies to climbing walls. I see QDs in France, Himalayas, Patagonia and Jim Bob rock in Dixy Alabama, I will take it down. No. Metal pro in Frankenjura (do I have that right?) vs. almost everywhere else New metal at the Gunks vs. new metal at Rumney Rappel bolted routes during the bolt wars. No. Not universal. Not timeless. Not borderless. No matter how much, nor how little, we want it to be.
no.. Frankenjura is bolted.. the rope place is somewhere in germany?
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camhead
Jan 7, 2011, 9:35 PM
Post #273 of 285
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jakedatc wrote: bill413 wrote: majid_sabet wrote: sorry dude climbing rules is universal and there are no borders when it comes to ethics. you do not sh*t on any trail and same thing applies to climbing walls. I see QDs in France, Himalayas, Patagonia and Jim Bob rock in Dixy Alabama, I will take it down. No. Metal pro in Frankenjura (do I have that right?) vs. almost everywhere else New metal at the Gunks vs. new metal at Rumney Rappel bolted routes during the bolt wars. No. Not universal. Not timeless. Not borderless. No matter how much, nor how little, we want it to be. no.. Frankenjura is bolted.. the rope place is somewhere in germany?
Elbsandstein.
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majid_sabet
Jan 7, 2011, 9:54 PM
Post #274 of 285
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jakedatc wrote: marc801 wrote: sp115 wrote: majid_sabet wrote: replacing bad bolt, bad hanger is not the same as replacing QDs . these guys leave QDs cause they are lazy and they don't want to waste time while climbing. They just want the zipper down fast, bang bang and go and that aint happening in my backyard. put 10 QDs on your harness, climb like a climber, reach the hanger, clip and then go on. you can climb all day long with QDs hanging in there but take them down when you go home. Lazy? That's a bit disingenuous, it's also not important. What is important in the context of this discussion is that local ethics should apply. This wasn't in your backyard, it was in somebody elses, and they get to write the rules. Alas, once again, MS is being aggressively ignorant on a subject and inexplicably still fails to understand the simple difference between project draws and perma-draws. Majid doesn't understand a lot of simple things, sport climbing, trad climbing, wall climbing, English, the overwhelming majority wanting him to disappear.
who are these majority who want me out ?
put a poll and let's see
you pus*y do not have the balls to push me around kiddo and i have brought your punk ass nose down 100s of times in RC.
leaving fixed QDs is wrong and i am willing to challenge anyone who think is right to leave their sh*t hanging on the wall year around.
end of argument
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snoopy138
Jan 7, 2011, 9:58 PM
Post #275 of 285
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jakedatc wrote: marc801 wrote: sp115 wrote: majid_sabet wrote: replacing bad bolt, bad hanger is not the same as replacing QDs . these guys leave QDs cause they are lazy and they don't want to waste time while climbing. They just want the zipper down fast, bang bang and go and that aint happening in my backyard. put 10 QDs on your harness, climb like a climber, reach the hanger, clip and then go on. you can climb all day long with QDs hanging in there but take them down when you go home. Lazy? That's a bit disingenuous, it's also not important. What is important in the context of this discussion is that local ethics should apply. This wasn't in your backyard, it was in somebody elses, and they get to write the rules. Alas, once again, MS is being aggressively ignorant on a subject and inexplicably still fails to understand the simple difference between project draws and perma-draws. Majid doesn't understand a lot of simple things, sport climbing, trad climbing, wall climbing, English, the overwhelming majority wanting him to disappear.
umm ... mostly you and your anti-majid jihad. I want him to stay and continue entertaining all of us.
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