|
davidaw
Jan 11, 2012, 8:03 PM
Post #1 of 28
(18032 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 13, 2010
Posts: 24
|
Hi all, I've been climbing for a while now, and I have experimented with using a regular tubular belay device and figure 8 for belaying, and I was wondering what the thoughts are on using a rappelling ring for belay? It doesn't have a wire to keep it close to the harness, but if you pull hard it locks. What do you guys think about it? Have any of you tried this?
Cheers
|
|
|
|
|
agdavis
Jan 11, 2012, 8:12 PM
Post #2 of 28
(18024 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 7, 2009
Posts: 310
|
davidaw wrote: Hi all, I've been climbing for a while now, and I have experimented with using a regular tubular belay device and figure 8 for belaying, and I was wondering what the thoughts are on using a rappelling ring for belay? It doesn't have a wire to keep it close to the harness, but if you pull hard it locks. What do you guys think about it? Have any of you tried this? Cheers
Let me answer your question in the form of a question: Would you voluntarily use something that is not meant for belaying (and in fact has a specific, other purpose), for belaying? Also, would you use an aluminum piece of metal that weighs as much as a few paper clips to arrest a fall?
(This post was edited by agdavis on Jan 11, 2012, 8:12 PM)
|
|
|
|
|
sungam
Jan 11, 2012, 8:23 PM
Post #3 of 28
(18010 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 24, 2004
Posts: 26804
|
Please tell me this is a troll. Rap rings are NOT a belay/rappel device. Dear gawd, do NOT try to use them for belaying or rapping. They are made to be as low friction as possible.
|
|
|
|
|
donwanadi
Jan 11, 2012, 9:07 PM
Post #4 of 28
(17988 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 19, 2011
Posts: 170
|
I think you should explain what you mean better.
(This post was edited by donwanadi on Jan 11, 2012, 9:08 PM)
|
|
|
|
|
McMonk
Jan 11, 2012, 9:16 PM
Post #5 of 28
(17976 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 27, 2011
Posts: 28
|
sungam wrote: Please tell me this is a troll. Rap rings are NOT a belay/rappel device. Dear gawd, do NOT try to use them for belaying or rapping. They are made to be as low friction as possible.
If it's not a troll, then I feel a Darwin Award coming on...
|
|
|
|
|
davidaw
Jan 11, 2012, 9:21 PM
Post #6 of 28
(17973 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 13, 2010
Posts: 24
|
It's a 20 kn piece of gear.. And anyway, I asked because I wanted to hear someone's opinion. I don't specifically know why you would want to use it instead of just using your belay device, but just looking for some thoughts.
Cheers
In reply to: Also, would you use an aluminum piece of metal that weighs as much as a few paper clips to arrest a fall?
|
|
|
|
|
SylviaSmile
Jan 11, 2012, 9:30 PM
Post #7 of 28
(17954 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 3, 2011
Posts: 983
|
It's just not a sound idea. Unless by "sound" you mean the sound of your climbing partner screaming. Speaking of which, you might want to get input from the person you're actually belaying on what kind of device they think is suitable for the job; that would make everyone happier.
|
|
|
|
|
drector
Jan 11, 2012, 9:34 PM
Post #8 of 28
(17949 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 27, 2002
Posts: 1037
|
Which rap ring? I have a steel ring that would hold a truck but I also have an Al rap ring that is so thin and light that I would be scarred to use it for its intended purpose.
|
|
|
|
|
McMonk
Jan 11, 2012, 9:35 PM
Post #9 of 28
(17948 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 27, 2011
Posts: 28
|
It is only rated for 20 kN along its major axis/axes. If you were to use it like a belay device, the force would be applied differently than it is designed for; therefore, making it significantly weaker.
|
|
|
|
|
davidaw
Jan 11, 2012, 9:38 PM
Post #10 of 28
(17942 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 13, 2010
Posts: 24
|
Mmm that's interesting. Thanks for the input, guys! And I was not planning on using it for belaying considering that I already have belay devices, the idea of using it occurred to me, so I just wanted to see.. sounds like its no buona.
In reply to: It is only rated for 20 kN along its major axis/axes. If you were to use it like a belay device, the force would be applied differently than it is designed for; therefore, making it significantly weaker.
|
|
|
|
|
jt512
Jan 11, 2012, 10:02 PM
Post #11 of 28
(17916 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 12, 2001
Posts: 21904
|
davidaw wrote: Mmm that's interesting. Thanks for the input, guys! And I was not planning on using it for belaying considering that I already have belay devices, the idea of using it occurred to me, so I just wanted to see.. sounds like its no buona. In reply to: It is only rated for 20 kN along its major axis/axes. If you were to use it like a belay device, the force would be applied differently than it is designed for; therefore, making it significantly weaker.
Don't top post
(This post was edited by jt512 on Jan 11, 2012, 10:03 PM)
|
|
|
|
|
ablanchard17
Jan 11, 2012, 10:09 PM
Post #12 of 28
(17907 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 23, 2011
Posts: 41
|
McMonk wrote: It is only rated for 20 kN along its major axis/axes. If you were to use it like a belay device, the force would be applied differently than it is designed for; therefore, making it significantly weaker.
its a ring, the whole thing would technically be the "major axis"
but. rap rings are not belay devices.
using a rap ring as a belay device would most likely not work at all.
|
|
|
|
|
McMonk
Jan 11, 2012, 10:27 PM
Post #13 of 28
(17895 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 27, 2011
Posts: 28
|
ablanchard17 wrote: McMonk wrote: It is only rated for 20 kN along its major axis/axes. If you were to use it like a belay device, the force would be applied differently than it is designed for; therefore, making it significantly weaker. its a ring, the whole thing would technically be the "major axis" but. rap rings are not belay devices. using a rap ring as a belay device would most likely not work at all.
I realize that which is why I used included the plural form. When a bight of rope is fed through the ring, and a carabiner attached to the bight (apply force here) the rope going through the carabiner puts a sideways force on the ring.
|
|
|
|
|
rocknice2
Jan 11, 2012, 10:59 PM
Post #14 of 28
(17870 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 13, 2006
Posts: 1221
|
Yup it works. It's like a stitch plate or using the small end of a fig8.
There may be an issue with the ring diameter and biner size combo but basically it works fine.
That wire on all tubes is to keep it close to the biner. Something the ring lacks and can be a PITA.
A chain link works too as well as many other things.
|
|
|
|
|
mr_rogers
Jan 12, 2012, 12:43 AM
Post #15 of 28
(17827 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 9, 2006
Posts: 57
|
rocknice2 wrote: Yup it works. It's like a stitch plate or using the small end of a fig8. There may be an issue with the ring diameter and biner size combo but basically it works fine. That wire on all tubes is to keep it close to the biner. Something the ring lacks and can be a PITA. A chain link works too as well as many other things.
Yes. This.
That said, using a ring (presuming it's strong enough) is probably not the best idea. Folks moved on from steel chain links and aluminum links like the MSR Belay Link for a reason.
Check out Dr. Gary Storrick's awesome site, and look at item # 603.
http://storrick.cnc.net/...e/BelayDevices.shtml
|
|
|
|
|
potreroed
Jan 12, 2012, 2:26 AM
Post #16 of 28
(17787 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 30, 2001
Posts: 1454
|
I suppose in an emergency it would work fine but I'd still go with a munter hitch first.
|
|
|
|
|
bearbreeder
Jan 12, 2012, 7:35 AM
Post #18 of 28
(17715 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 2, 2009
Posts: 1960
|
use a munter ...
its tested and true ...
|
|
|
|
|
blueeyedclimber
Jan 12, 2012, 1:33 PM
Post #19 of 28
(17672 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 19, 2002
Posts: 4602
|
jt512 wrote: davidaw wrote: Mmm that's interesting. Thanks for the input, guys! And I was not planning on using it for belaying considering that I already have belay devices, the idea of using it occurred to me, so I just wanted to see.. sounds like its no buona. In reply to: It is only rated for 20 kN along its major axis/axes. If you were to use it like a belay device, the force would be applied differently than it is designed for; therefore, making it significantly weaker.
The guy's asking about using a rap ring for a belay device, and this is what sticks out to you?
Josh
|
|
|
|
|
ianwatson
Jan 12, 2012, 9:03 PM
Post #20 of 28
(17584 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 31, 2010
Posts: 66
|
davidaw wrote: I was wondering what the thoughts are on using a rappelling ring for belay? It doesn't have a wire to keep it close to the harness, but if you pull hard it locks. What do you guys think about it? Have any of you tried this? Cheers
Anyone looking for a partner?
|
|
|
|
|
jt512
Jan 12, 2012, 9:10 PM
Post #21 of 28
(17577 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 12, 2001
Posts: 21904
|
blueeyedclimber wrote: jt512 wrote: davidaw wrote: Mmm that's interesting. Thanks for the input, guys! And I was not planning on using it for belaying considering that I already have belay devices, the idea of using it occurred to me, so I just wanted to see.. sounds like its no buona. In reply to: It is only rated for 20 kN along its major axis/axes. If you were to use it like a belay device, the force would be applied differently than it is designed for; therefore, making it significantly weaker. The guy's asking about using a rap ring for a belay device, and this is what sticks out to you? Josh
Yeah. Top posting is musch stupider than using a steel rap ring as a belay device.
Jay
|
|
|
|
|
agdavis
Jan 14, 2012, 6:17 PM
Post #22 of 28
(17459 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 7, 2009
Posts: 310
|
Let's note that the rings shown there are probably not the type we are discussing. My understanding is we are talking about the cheap, light aluminum ones.
|
|
|
|
|
acorneau
Jan 14, 2012, 6:36 PM
Post #23 of 28
(17450 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 6, 2008
Posts: 2889
|
agdavis wrote: Let's note that the rings shown there are probably not the type we are discussing. My understanding is we are talking about the cheap, light aluminum ones.
True.
The OP stated "It's a 20 kn piece of gear.. " so I'm guessing he's talking about the Omega Pacific rap ring (rated to 20kN) which is easily available at REI.
http://www.rei.com/...-pacific-rappel-ring
The other common rap ring would be the SMC which doesn't even have a rating (that I can find).
http://www.trango.com/...smc-descending-rings
I would find it most plausible that the OP was asking about using the Omega ring as an improvised belay device and not the SMC (or it's like).
|
|
|
|
|
Khoi
Jan 14, 2012, 9:10 PM
Post #24 of 28
(17426 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 11, 2008
Posts: 294
|
acorneau wrote: agdavis wrote: Let's note that the rings shown there are probably not the type we are discussing. My understanding is we are talking about the cheap, light aluminum ones. True. The OP stated "It's a 20 kn piece of gear.. " so I'm guessing he's talking about the Omega Pacific rap ring (rated to 20kN) which is easily available at REI. http://www.rei.com/...-pacific-rappel-ring The other common rap ring would be the SMC which doesn't even have a rating (that I can find). http://www.trango.com/...smc-descending-rings I would find it most plausible that the OP was asking about using the Omega ring as an improvised belay device and not the SMC (or it's like).
14 kN
http://www.smcgear.net/...&category_id=223
|
|
|
|
|
|
1
