Im a new climber and so far I have only done some top roping. I would like to soon start to try and lead some easier routes (5.6/5.7) but I cringe at the thought of falling on lead. Im a pretty heavy guy and all I can think of is that the equipment is more likely to fail if I fall. I know the equipment is super strong and as long as I use the gear properly then there should be no problem, but it is still in the back of my mind. So I guess my question is, is there proper technique for falling on lead?

Thanks

You seem like a pretty big guy...no offense. Because of this I would want a very experienced belayer lead belaying for me if the weight difference was very large.

Im a new climber and so far I have only done some top roping. I would like to soon start to try and lead some easier routes (5.6/5.7) but I cringe at the thought of falling on lead. Im a pretty heavy guy and all I can think of is that the equipment is more likely to fail if I fall. I know the equipment is super strong and as long as I use the gear properly then there should be no problem, but it is still in the back of my mind. So I guess my question is, is there proper technique for falling on lead?

Thanks

Im a new climber
I have only done some top roping
I would like to soon start to try and lead
I cringe at the thought of falling on lead
Im a pretty heavy guy
I can think of is that the equipment is more likely to fail if I fall.
I know the equipment is super strong
I use the gear properly then there should be no problem,
So I guess my question is, is there proper technique for falling on lead?

Thanks

Bend your knees as you come into contact with the rock/wall to avoid hurting your ankles.

Falling:
Take one fall slightly below the bolt.
Take one fall at the bolt
Take one fall above the bolt.

If you want to keep practicing falling, do it above the anchor if possible, then you will get used to not being at the bolt. Remember to give your rope a rest, and the QD you were falling on. Have a fun climb

>Cam

I have, and since the pictures are bs, and there isn't separate pro, I was wondering...

>Cam

I know the equipment is super strong

I have, and since the pictures are bs, and there isn't separate pro, I was wondering...

>Cam

From OP's statement


I was only trying to show related photos to educate OP that climbing gears like any other hardware do fail and if they are going to fail; most likely it would during a major fall.

Actuaqlly majid has a point. bad things can and do happen in leader falls, just see this months R&I accident report. This is the beginners forum and the OP is talking about leading 5.6 and 5.7 On those grades of climbs the leader should NOT fall!! As a beginner the leader should work on their climbing skills NOT their falling skills. Easier grade climbs often have too many ledges to hit makeing them bad choices for leader falls anyhow. The new leader also needs to develope the skills to stay in control on the sharp end. learning how to down climb out of trouble rather than jumping off at the first sign of adversity is an essentual skill. Once the leader advances into harder grades and has some no fall miles under their harness you can start working on learning how to lead fallin the right situations. You guys are all like whip away dude, its really fun and the gear is like super truck man. Majid is just showing you the other side of the story... In any lead fall about 4 things can happen and 3 of them are bad

Majid - it was still really uncalled for. I have never said anything about your posts before, however, that one was low, even for you.

In this case majids post was actually better than any of the posts where you nilliys all sent the poor noob out to whip away and most likly get hurt the leader must not fall untill the leader is on steep well bolted sport climbs or the leader is experienced and is on a steep well protected gear climb. You guys are encourageing a noob to practice leader falls on 5.6 and 5.7 trad climbs?? WTF?? You guys are way the fck out there on this one and make majid look pretty good today.... gear does rip and sometimes it breaks in low fall factor falls. (see aliens) Sometimes you hit things and you break. Bolts pull out and break, draws break, ropes get cut on sharp edges, all of this stuff is pretty rare but is is not a bad idea to know that the system is not bulletproof. Gravity does not lie and you don't get too many second chances in this game. learning how to lead without falling is an essentual skill. The best time to learn that skill is when you are starting. Pleanty of time to learn how to lead fall when you are a seasoned pro.

Some people recommend practice falls, but I don't really know that that's necessary. If you ever fall on TR, then you already know what it feels like to fall. Granted, lead falls are much more exhilarating, but TR falls are pretty much the same thing on a smaller scale; gravity at work on your body.

hosh.

I just wanted to take this opporunity to point out that I have not encouraged the OP to practice falling on anything anywhere, or to practice falling at all.

All I did was reveal the origin of Majid's photos and point out that he's a moron, so please don't lump me in your chiding. I knew all of the above long before posting which is why I didn't get involved.

So, all of THEM are encouraging 5.6/5.7 trad falls, or whomever actually said it. I have an opinion on the subject, but I'm not going to post it as I don't want to get into a pissing match over a subject that is so incredibly a personal opinion.


And a few points:

- Aliens fail at low loads when they're improperly manufactured, which appears to be most of the time these days. Lesson: Don't climb on aliens.

- REPUTABLE gear breaking is exceptionally rare.

- If you're stupid enough to think the system is bulletproof, you deserve death.

I just wanted to take this opporunity to point out that I have not encouraged the OP to practice falling on anything anywhere, or to practice falling at all.

All I did was reveal the origin of Majid's photos and point out that he's a moron, so please don't lump me in your chiding. I knew all of the above long before posting which is why I didn't get involved.

So, all of THEM are encouraging 5.6/5.7 trad falls, or whomever actually said it. I have an opinion on the subject, but I'm not going to post it as I don't want to get into a pissing match over a subject that is so incredibly a personal opinion.


And a few points:

- Aliens fail at low loads when they're improperly manufactured, which appears to be most of the time these days. Lesson: Don't climb on aliens.

- REPUTABLE gear breaking is exceptionally rare.

- If you're stupid enough to think the system is bulletproof, you deserve death.

I would like to take another moment to point out SAME HERE! I didn't tell anybody to intentionally take a fall. That's like telling somebody to intentionally crash their car into a tree to make sure the seatbelt and airbags work. Thanks for putting words in our mouth though.

O.K., so we all agree that practice lead falls on 5.6 ledge-fest is a bad idea. But saying that ALL practice lead falls are as bad/stupid as ramming your car into a tree? In a beginner forum?

on slab: take a big jump back

To cover my ass from future liability, yes!

Personally, I have done it. However, I am not going to tell anybody else to. What if said beginner places a shitty piece of gear and launches himself in a "practice fall" and decks, how would you feel. In the correct environment, with the correct guidance it can be very beneficial.

Stop telling people that is okay to fall and if what I say make me moron then that is fine with me.

No, I called you a moron because in a beginners forum, you did your utmost to scare the hell out of someone who is only trying to get some info.

Do a little research and you'll see the OP as just started climbing and wants to progress to the next step...not 60' whippers, not major falls on a 00 tcu's... he wants to try leading and wants some info on what that means to a man his size. You basically told him he'll break his gear and die.

Now if you want to keep him from ever climbing again: nice strategy; otherwise it was incomplete, inappropriate and borderline lieing.

Again:
Question: Can I hope to lead at my weight?
Answer: Yes, given appropriate instruction and proper usage, current gear can handle a person of your size in a lead fall.

I may be a moron but you guys are super moron for giving so called expert advice to beginners that is okay to jump and it is okay to fall cause based on the CF manufactures records, all climbing gears are safe and they will do their job to protect you.


STOPPPPPP

Climbing gears are there as backups and occasionally backups fail (very rare) but like any other hardware, they do fail. The price tag for such failures are either major injuries and commonly involves with DEATH. You as a beginner should focus on your climbing skill and experience as primary way to increase your ability to climb higher and enjoy this lovely sport. Gears and protections are only there as a backup incase you loose it. You want to be better climber then assume there are no ropes and there are no protections and if you fall, you will die.

Stop telling people that is okay to fall and if what I say make me moron then that is fine with me.

And regarding gear: Falling is a bad idea under almost all circumstances. That said, modern trad gear, when placed well, is substantially more dependable than the protection of yore.

I may be a moron but you guys are super moron for giving so called expert advice to beginners that is okay to jump and it is okay to fall cause based on the CF manufactures records, all climbing gears are safe and they will do their job to protect you.

Stop telling people that is okay to fall and if what I say make me moron then that is fine with me.

"you guys"

Your fears are well-founded and exactly right.


That depends...


Yes - don't fall! Aside from having a solid core of experience placing gear (which should now be evident to you in both the genuine, helpful responses and the asshole "you're going to hurt yourself, noob; take up cross-stitching" responses), your best technique will be to prepare yourself long before you get on the wall.

Obviously, having a qualitative understanding of your gear is paramount. This refers to how the gear feels when you place it, knowing what looks, feels, and sounds right, being able to judge whether or not a placement could torque out or pull out or blow off the hollow flake that it's behind. It's being able to look at a placement, determine all the things that could go wrong, and respond accordingly to mitigate the dangers. Without just going out and leading, it's knowledge you gain from paying close attention while seconding someone you trust, practicing placements at the base of the cliff when you're not climbing, and bounce-testing them.

When it comes to the numbers, you have to understand what the numbers mean for you. First and foremost, if you weigh more than 176 pounds the UIAA tests for ropes aren't designed for you. A good resource, which will go well beyond what anyone on this site can tell you, can be found here:

http://www.safeclimbing.org/..._Climbers_Beware.pdf

If you're considerably larger than the standard popeye-forearmed, heroin-addled-keith-richards build, it will be good to know just how hard you actually fall. You can get a rough idea of the forces your body will generate during a fall here:

http://www.getbeta.com/fall_factor.asp

You can play with the numbers (body weight, length of rope out, distance above last piece of gear) and find out that if you're 220 lbs, 50 feet up the wall with 10 feet between you and your ideally-placed green C3 rated for 7 kN, you probably don't want to even consider falling.

Not knowing your experience, personality, climbing style, or skill level, the best advice we can give is to get instruction from someone who knows what he or she is doing. Other that that, I would suggest minimizing the distance between your placements, learning how to equalize multiple pieces for a placement, and doing a lot of research on what your gear can reasonably be expected to hold. In some cases it will put your mind at ease; in others it will probably scare the hell out you and keep you from doing something stupid...

Best of luck.

Rob

Regarding Majid's Photos above:

The fall is a picture of a staged fall done for a movie some whiles back (the 70s?) There was a long discussion about it over at Supertopo, including the person in charge of rigging.

The picture of the broke Doval is from an accident that happened last year. The guy got unlucky, and his Doval which was on a cam sling, got caught in a crack, forced open and crossloaded as he fell. If I recall, the climber was ok despite the accident.

The black/white sliced rope is from some other completely unrelated incident, I can't remember exactly what right now.

Just ignore Majid. He's damned useless.

Ja, you say that there is nothing you can do to prevent gear failing? what a load of crap! 90% of the time when a piece of gear fails it is user error that causes the faliur, the other 10% of the time it's an alien.

...all I can think of is that the equipment is more likely to fail if I fall...

I learned trad by following competent leaders. I would study their placements, and the reason they placed that piece of gear there. When I started placing gear, I top-roped up, placing gear as I went. When I got to the top, He would second up, and not remove gear. We both rapped at that point to critique my placements, and clean gear. It worked well for me, and I dont know how many others learned this way.