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p0bray01
Jul 29, 2005, 11:31 PM
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Hey are there sport crack climbs? At the gym there is a crack climb that I top roped for the first time and it was awesome. However, I am gonna have to move into Trad to find good crack climbs?
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andrewbanandrew
Jul 29, 2005, 11:34 PM
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You could move to France.
I'm joking.
Sort of.
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caughtinside
Jul 29, 2005, 11:53 PM
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There are a few crack sport climbs. However, they are few, and they tend to be a bit... controversial. :P
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dschultz
Jul 30, 2005, 12:00 AM
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Is a "crack sport climb" an oxymoron? There are a few in AZ at none other than Jack's Canyon. Yes, most of us who have been there have climbed "Sports Book" and liked it!
Name withheld....well sort of.
:wink:
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jt512
Jul 30, 2005, 12:03 AM
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In reply to: Hey are there sport crack climbs? At the gym there is a crack climb that I top roped for the first time and it was awesome. However, I am gonna have to move into Trad to find good crack climbs?
The traditional ethic, especially in North America, is that if a route can take clean pro, it shouldn't be bolted, so there are few bolted cracks in North America. There are a few exceptions, though. For instance, some dedicated sport crags have bolted cracks, essentially for the convience of not having to schlep a rack to the crag. Typically, such cracks aren't particularly high quality. So, if you want to become a crack climber, you will have to learn to place gear.
-Jay
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fracture
Jul 30, 2005, 12:15 AM
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Beth Rodden's route The Optimist is a sport climb, and is about half crack climbing. Many of the holds are old pin scars from when it used to be an Aid route. (And it's 5.14b).
:D
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megableem
Jul 30, 2005, 12:22 AM
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crackmd
Jul 30, 2005, 12:46 AM
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In reply to: Some people would argue that Indian Creek is a (crack) sport climbing area: single pitches, anchors 80-100 feet, pro every body length or so, plenty of opportunity to dog or TR. The only difference is that you carry cams instead of QDs. But in many respects, it qualifies as sport.
That's what makes the Creek so awesome. You can go for it like you can on sportclimbs because pro tends to be straightforward and can be places quickly.
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stranded
Jul 30, 2005, 1:02 AM
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SnottGirlz down at Potrero Chico is a bolted multipitch crack climb.
Fun too.
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overlord
Jul 31, 2005, 1:32 PM
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youll probably not find many in n. america, but there are some here.
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rockrat_co
Jul 31, 2005, 3:14 PM
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indeed,
i know around here you will find a coupple but when an individual bolts a gear protectable crack the general climbing community seeks to hang that individual by their feet!
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takanhase
Jul 31, 2005, 6:59 PM
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I have seen some protectable sport climbs at the black cliffs in boise. I have also herd of a bolted crack line up in boulder canyon in colorado! but for the most part they are few and far between (thank god)
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p0bray01
Aug 1, 2005, 7:44 PM
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thanks I appreciate the help...ahhhh wallet you and me are going shopping for some pro. :lol:
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elvislegs
Aug 1, 2005, 8:05 PM
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In reply to: I have seen some protectable sport climbs at the black cliffs in boise.
i cna think of two particularly egregious examples at the mids.
ajax - 5.9
snake eyes -5.8
the beauty of it is that they are bolted in the oddest places and they are really pretty low quality in comparison to some of the stellar crack lines we have.
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tucsonalex
Aug 2, 2005, 11:48 PM
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As mentioned above Jacks Canyon has some bolted cracks. Sport Park in Boulder Canyon has some very fine bolted splitter cracks, and Shelf Road has its share of bolted cracks too. Bolted cracks tend to be either controversial (like sport parks bolted granite splitters), not protect very well (like limestone cracks), or are bolted to avoid lugging a trad rack to a mostly sport area.
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climbsomething
Aug 3, 2005, 12:37 AM
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Jacks for sure has bolted cracks, but not as many as people think. And Sports Book, for example, isn't a splitter- it's an awkward cracky thing to face whose smiley face endorsement seems a bit generous. But anyway, assuming the OP isn't trolling, why not find a trad leader to second?
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irockclimb
Aug 3, 2005, 1:21 AM
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rofl bolted cracks WHY!?!?
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jt512
Aug 3, 2005, 4:31 PM
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In reply to: rofl bolted cracks WHY!?!?
Can you read? If so, read the post from Tucson Alex that's a whole two posts above yours.
-Jay
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irockclimb
Aug 3, 2005, 5:05 PM
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Even on a splitter just climb it 2 much gear takes the fun out of the climb anyway
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kpalsson
Aug 12, 2005, 4:09 PM
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Speaking of sporting it up at the creek, I met some people there who despite carrying a rack of cams, and leading up down left and right all day, said they don't consider themselves trad climbers at all, and wouldn't know what to do on a trad climb. Sling extension made no sense to them, and nuts were strange.
Kudos for knowing the limits of their skills, and mega kudos to being way hotter (both sexually and in climbing skills) than me, but it was still reallllly weird to see.
Walk up to the base and work out whether it's red, yellow or blue, then go and collect 6 of them and off you go.
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md3
Aug 12, 2005, 4:26 PM
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In reply to: mega kudos to being way hotter (both sexually and in climbing skills) than me, but it was still reallllly weird to see.
I want to see pictures of such awesome sexy weirdness.
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asandh
Aug 12, 2005, 4:27 PM
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tucsonalex wrote:In reply to: or are bolted to avoid lugging a trad rack to a mostly sport area.
Yep, well, duh, that pretty much gives you all the excuse you need ... my trad rack's too heavy, bolt some cracks for me ... :cry:
Lets see ... Sport Climbers are ...
Too lazy to carry a trad rack ...
Too lazy to place their own draws ...
Too lazy to rap off their anchors so they lower ...
Worried about getting killed when they lower so they have a whole separate thread that whines about how dangerous it is ...
Sport Climbers ... How 'bout we just chop all the lead bolts because they are just there for show anyway, and you fess up to what you're really doing ...
Top Roping ... not that there's anything wrong with that. :roll:
... Then you could also have fixed ropes hanging from your fixed anchors ... oh, but then you'd still have to carry your shoes and chalk bag to the crag :cry:
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janjaf
Aug 17, 2005, 10:20 AM
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In reply to: Walk up to the base and work out whether it's red, yellow or blue, then go and collect 6 of them and off you go.
ah, now that's my kind of tradding. too bad it's in the US
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potreroed
Sep 10, 2005, 10:17 PM
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There are a number of excellent bolted cracks at El Potrero Chico.
Devil's Lake in Wisconsin has hundreds of super-fine cracks which are easy to put a top rope on.
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lardbutt
Sep 11, 2005, 12:00 AM
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Perry's lieback on the Grand Wall in Squamish is a classic all-bolts 7-inch wide splitter undercling/layback. You'll have to climb a bunch of regular trad to get to it, though.
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ecjohnson
Sep 11, 2005, 12:26 AM
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Cracks shouldn't be bolted!!!!! I like to climb bolted cracks with gear, especially when there are a bunch of sport climbers around!!
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c22
Sep 11, 2005, 1:34 AM
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It seems like you are all missing the obvious. He has limited gear, and there are very few bolted cracks... SO TR THE DAMN THING! The number of quality cracks out there that can be TRed is enormous.
Just my 2 cents
-Dan
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dirtineye
Sep 11, 2005, 2:01 AM
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Sport climbers are all going to hell. I think I read that in the bible somewhere.
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speedywon
Sep 11, 2005, 3:25 AM
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In reply to: Even on a splitter just climb it 2 much gear takes the fun out of the climb anyway
Man, it is amazing how punctuation can increase reading comprehension.
Even on a splitter, just climb it. Too much gear takes the fun out of the climb anyway.
Sorry, I can't help it. I'm a teacher.
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cosmiccragsman
Sep 11, 2005, 3:45 AM
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lolololol
Good one dirtineye!
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subantz
Nov 26, 2009, 12:02 AM
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[quote "dirtineye"]Sport climbers are all going to hell. I think I read that in the bible somewhere.[/quote]
What about the boulderers. We get a free pass to kick your ass.
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csproul
Nov 26, 2009, 12:27 AM
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subantz wrote: [quote "dirtineye"]Sport climbers are all going to hell. I think I read that in the bible somewhere.[/quote] What about the boulderers. We get a free pass to kick your ass.
(This post was edited by csproul on Nov 26, 2009, 12:28 AM)
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avalon420
Nov 26, 2009, 12:53 AM
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subantz wrote: [quote "dirtineye"]Sport climbers are all going to hell. I think I read that in the bible somewhere.[/quote] What about the boulderers. We get a free pass to kick your ass.
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avalon420
Nov 26, 2009, 1:16 AM
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asandh wrote: tucsonalex wrote: In reply to: or are bolted to avoid lugging a trad rack to a mostly sport area. Yep, well, duh, that pretty much gives you all the excuse you need ... my trad rack's too heavy, bolt some cracks for me ... :cry: Lets see ... Sport Climbers are ... Too lazy to carry a trad rack ... Too lazy to place their own draws ... Too lazy to rap off their anchors so they lower ... Worried about getting killed when they lower so they have a whole separate thread that whines about how dangerous it is ... Sport Climbers ... How 'bout we just chop all the lead bolts because they are just there for show anyway, and you fess up to what you're really doing ... Top Roping ... not that there's anything wrong with that. :roll: ... Then you could also have fixed ropes hanging from your fixed anchors ... oh, but then you'd still have to carry your shoes and chalk bag to the crag :cry:  . PLUS a chalk bag and shoes? I'd much rather just bring my prusiks and save weight on those fixed lines
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rockforlife
Nov 26, 2009, 2:08 AM
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asandh wrote: tucsonalex wrote: or are bolted to avoid lugging a trad rack to a mostly sport area. Yep, well, duh, that pretty much gives you all the excuse you need ... my trad rack's too heavy, bolt some cracks for me ... :cry: Lets see ... Sport Climbers are ... Too lazy to carry a trad rack ... Too lazy to place their own draws ... Too lazy to rap off their anchors so they lower ... Worried about getting killed when they lower so they have a whole separate thread that whines about how dangerous it is ... Sport Climbers ... How 'bout we just chop all the lead bolts because they are just there for show anyway, and you fess up to what you're really doing ... Top Roping ... not that there's anything wrong with that. :roll: ... Then you could also have fixed ropes hanging from your fixed anchors ... oh, but then you'd still have to carry your shoes and chalk bag to the crag :cry:
Wait did it just get dark in here,
I feel all warm and fuzzy,
It's kind of like some one just through a blanket over me.....and every one else....
(This post was edited by rockforlife on Nov 26, 2009, 2:10 AM)
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randyb
Nov 26, 2009, 2:34 AM
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Rethinking the Ethics Colorado Springs |
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tomcat_ct
Nov 27, 2009, 12:09 AM
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I was so lost reading yet another post about this ongoing trad vs sport thing until I saw the post where someone said to just TR those quality cracks.
Why on earth is everyone losing the point that it's all about the line and the route and not how you protect it?!
I have a different personal opinion about this subject.I mainly like face climbing(I live in Romania where almost all areas worth to climb are limestone and conglomerate...) but I like climbing long multipitch routes.
Single pitch sport routes make a lot of sense to me since I don't want to carry a rack to climb a single pitch.It's also not much of an adventure to climb one pitch anyway.But if I go out to do multipitch stuff I don't expect anybody to bolt 7-10-how many you want or like- pitches for me.And I also don't want anyone to take the adventure away by turning a classic climb in to a blot clipping session.
c22,you're absolutely right!TR is the simplest way of going after those climbs without a rack.
And anyway, I believe that everyone who likes climbing enough, will end up after a certain period of time with a huge rack, climbing multipitch trad climbs for the shear beauty and exposure of the lines and not for the grades, ethics or other crap that doesn't really matter when you're way run out up there.That's just how I see it-I go out to climb and that's it.Being a second or TR on a climb without facing a monster whipper while leading doesn't mean that you didn't get to experience the beauty of the rock and the moves.And that monster whipper is probably waiting for you just around the corner when you eventually tie back in to the sharp end.
(This post was edited by tomcat_ct on Nov 27, 2009, 12:12 AM)
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dugl33
Nov 27, 2009, 6:19 AM
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p0bray01 wrote: However, I am gonna have to move into Trad to find good crack climbs?
Yes. You are.
Kind of like, if you want to try skydiving, you're gonna have to jump out of some planes.
Don't worry, though, placing your own pro is part of the fun, and a whole other world of possibilities open up once you figure it out.
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sp00ki
Nov 27, 2009, 9:42 PM
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Zombie thread...
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wes_allen
Nov 28, 2009, 12:21 AM
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Dead man walking @ portrero might very well be the best 5.9 corner I have done. And it even had draws hanging on it already - jam, jam, clip. Jam, jam, clip for 100+ feet.
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guangzhou
Nov 30, 2009, 12:43 AM
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America has it's fair share of bolted cracks. Even us trad climber who have spent more nights on big walls then most climbers here have spent days climbing have been known to bolt a crack under the right circumstances.
On the rigth side of the Gallery at Red Rocks, I remember a bolted crack that was covered in Chalk.
Who Needs Freinds, at Jackson Falls in Southern Il is a bolted crack.
personally, not in America, I bolted a few cracks in CHina where climbers can afford a rack, and I bolted a couple of cracks on the sea cliffs of Okinawa where the rock quality would hold gear. (& inch by 1/2 inch glue in bolts worked fine.)
I remember a "trad climber," new to the island condeming me for bolting the thing. he said I should have waited till I could climb hard enough to climb it on gear. I explained about the quality of rock, and he blew it off.
The route was 12b, and he couldn't climb the grade free, so he decided to aid it. He clipped two bolts on the face below, started aiding the crack on nuts and cams. About 30 ft into the crack, a piece pull through the rock like Swiss cheeses. He zippered every piece because the rock was to soft to hold more then body weight.
The bolt caught him and he never complain or questioned my bolts again. He even tried to repeat a couple of my non-bolted lines and found them to run-out and dangerous. I eventually rap bolted those so they would be climbed. Those routes are now very popular.
I've been on several routes in America that were completely bolted cracks.
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dylanbar
Nov 30, 2009, 2:47 AM
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The sport park in Boulder tends to have a few bolted cracks but none of good quality.
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josiahdood
Dec 1, 2009, 10:08 AM
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The Nose on El Cap has a bunch of bolts on it - is that a bolted crack climb?
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william.alan.swanson
Dec 1, 2009, 3:42 PM
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[quote "andrewbanandrew"]You could move to France.
I'm joking.
Sort of.[/quote]
Seriously, he's not joking. You want bolts, come to France.
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airscape
Jan 28, 2010, 12:03 PM
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If you are at a sport crag and there are a few cracks there.
Say for instance 100 routes 10 of which are cracks.
Why not bolt the cracks?
Who is going to go to a sport crag with a full trad rack to climb those 10 routes? 99% of all the people going to that crag will only take a sport rack, so it only makes sense to bolt the cracks and actually have people get pleasure from them as opposed to letting them be unused until some idiot brings along trad gear once every 20 years.
Edit: I think the whole bolting cracks debate is fucking stupid.
(This post was edited by airscape on Jan 28, 2010, 12:09 PM)
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climbingtrash
Jan 28, 2010, 1:25 PM
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airscape wrote: If you are at a sport crag and there are a few cracks there. Say for instance 100 routes 10 of which are cracks. Why not bolt the cracks? Who is going to go to a sport crag with a full trad rack to climb those 10 routes? 99% of all the people going to that crag will only take a sport rack, so it only makes sense to bolt the cracks and actually have people get pleasure from them as opposed to letting them be unused until some idiot brings along trad gear once every 20 years. Edit: I think the whole bolting cracks debate is fucking stupid.
So which side of the stupid argument are you on? I own a trad rack and a battery powered hilti. So I'm basically on the fence.
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airscape
Jan 28, 2010, 1:47 PM
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I don't care if a crack is bolted or not.
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acorneau
Jan 28, 2010, 3:01 PM
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airscape wrote: If you are at a sport crag and there are a few cracks there. Say for instance 100 routes 10 of which are cracks. Why not bolt the cracks? Who is going to go to a sport crag with a full trad rack to climb those 10 routes? 99% of all the people going to that crag will only take a sport rack, so it only makes sense to bolt the cracks and actually have people get pleasure from them as opposed to letting them be unused until some idiot brings along trad gear once every 20 years. Edit: I think the whole bolting cracks debate is fucking stupid.
There is nothing that says you can't have trad lines in a mostly-sport area.
Example: Horseshoe Canyon Ranch is a great sport climbing area yet there are some trad lines left unbolted because they are easily protectable.
It's pretty simple: If you want to climb the trad lines at a given sport area then you better bring your rack. Duh!
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airscape
Jan 29, 2010, 6:12 AM
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acorneau wrote: Example: Horseshoe Canyon Ranch is a great sport climbing area yet there are some trad lines left unbolted because they are easily protectable. It's pretty simple: If you want to climb the trad lines at a given sport area then you better bring your rack. Duh!
If they where bolted you could still bring your trad rack.
It's almost as if a crack is some sort of VIP nightclub and you can't come in unless you have the right friends.
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I_do
Jan 29, 2010, 11:35 AM
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acorneau wrote: airscape wrote: If you are at a sport crag and there are a few cracks there. Say for instance 100 routes 10 of which are cracks. Why not bolt the cracks? Who is going to go to a sport crag with a full trad rack to climb those 10 routes? 99% of all the people going to that crag will only take a sport rack, so it only makes sense to bolt the cracks and actually have people get pleasure from them as opposed to letting them be unused until some idiot brings along trad gear once every 20 years. Edit: I think the whole bolting cracks debate is fucking stupid. There is nothing that says you can't have trad lines in a mostly-sport area. Example: Horseshoe Canyon Ranch is a great sport climbing area yet there are some trad lines left unbolted because they are easily protectable. It's pretty simple: If you want to climb the trad lines at a given sport area then you better bring your rack. Duh!
There's no such thing as a trad line, if I put in a bolt every two feet it's a sport line. If I wanted to climb trad I'd go to a trad crag.
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c4c
Jan 29, 2010, 11:43 AM
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[quote "dirtineye"]Sport climbers are all going to hell. I think I read that in the bible somewhere.[/quote]
true statement.
but so are boulderers and trad climbers and everyone else.
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BobfartsII
Jan 29, 2010, 11:56 AM
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c4c wrote: [quote "dirtineye"]Sport climbers are all going to hell. I think I read that in the bible somewhere.[/quote] true statement. but so are boulderers and trad climbers and everyone else.
no no no not true, the bible clearly states that sport climbers are going to hell. there was something about it on fox news too...
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climbingtrash
Jan 29, 2010, 12:26 PM
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airscape wrote: acorneau wrote: Example: Horseshoe Canyon Ranch is a great sport climbing area yet there are some trad lines left unbolted because they are easily protectable. It's pretty simple: If you want to climb the trad lines at a given sport area then you better bring your rack. Duh! If they where bolted you could still bring your trad rack. It's almost as if a crack is some sort of VIP nightclub and you can't come in unless you have the right friends.
Yes, you do need the right Friends...
 
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camhead
Jan 29, 2010, 12:30 PM
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airscape wrote: acorneau wrote: Example: Horseshoe Canyon Ranch is a great sport climbing area yet there are some trad lines left unbolted because they are easily protectable. It's pretty simple: If you want to climb the trad lines at a given sport area then you better bring your rack. Duh! If they where bolted you could still bring your trad rack. It's almost as if a crack is some sort of VIP nightclub and you can't come in unless you have the right friends.
No, you don't need the right friends. Camalots or powercams work quite well, too.
Oh, and just to contribute more to this thread:
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johnwesely
Jan 29, 2010, 1:09 PM
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climbingtrash wrote: airscape wrote: acorneau wrote: Example: Horseshoe Canyon Ranch is a great sport climbing area yet there are some trad lines left unbolted because they are easily protectable. It's pretty simple: If you want to climb the trad lines at a given sport area then you better bring your rack. Duh! If they where bolted you could still bring your trad rack. It's almost as if a crack is some sort of VIP nightclub and you can't come in unless you have the right friends. Yes, you do need the right Friends... [image]http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f277/climbingtrash/Myrack.jpg[/image][image]http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f277/climbingtrash/Anim_GeorgeWBush-TapDancing.gif[/image]
You beat me to it.
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cush
Jan 29, 2010, 5:32 PM
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I_do wrote: acorneau wrote: airscape wrote: If you are at a sport crag and there are a few cracks there. Say for instance 100 routes 10 of which are cracks. Why not bolt the cracks? Who is going to go to a sport crag with a full trad rack to climb those 10 routes? 99% of all the people going to that crag will only take a sport rack, so it only makes sense to bolt the cracks and actually have people get pleasure from them as opposed to letting them be unused until some idiot brings along trad gear once every 20 years. Edit: I think the whole bolting cracks debate is fucking stupid. There is nothing that says you can't have trad lines in a mostly-sport area. Example: Horseshoe Canyon Ranch is a great sport climbing area yet there are some trad lines left unbolted because they are easily protectable. It's pretty simple: If you want to climb the trad lines at a given sport area then you better bring your rack. Duh! There's no such thing as a trad line, if I put in a bolt every two feet it's a sport line. If I wanted to climb trad I'd go to a trad crag.
i'm not sure whether you're joking or just stupid to a near paris hilton level
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I_do
Jan 29, 2010, 5:35 PM
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cush wrote: I_do wrote: acorneau wrote: airscape wrote: If you are at a sport crag and there are a few cracks there. Say for instance 100 routes 10 of which are cracks. Why not bolt the cracks? Who is going to go to a sport crag with a full trad rack to climb those 10 routes? 99% of all the people going to that crag will only take a sport rack, so it only makes sense to bolt the cracks and actually have people get pleasure from them as opposed to letting them be unused until some idiot brings along trad gear once every 20 years. Edit: I think the whole bolting cracks debate is fucking stupid. There is nothing that says you can't have trad lines in a mostly-sport area. Example: Horseshoe Canyon Ranch is a great sport climbing area yet there are some trad lines left unbolted because they are easily protectable. It's pretty simple: If you want to climb the trad lines at a given sport area then you better bring your rack. Duh! There's no such thing as a trad line, if I put in a bolt every two feet it's a sport line. If I wanted to climb trad I'd go to a trad crag. i'm not sure whether you're joking or just stupid to a near paris hilton level
Trad is neither.
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shimanilami
Jan 29, 2010, 6:13 PM
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Yawn.
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I_do
Jan 29, 2010, 6:19 PM
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Now there´s a worthwhile contribution if I´ve ever seen one.
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shimanilami
Jan 29, 2010, 6:28 PM
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You're welcome.
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climbingaz
Jan 29, 2010, 8:41 PM
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Damn it, I just wasted another 10 minutes of my life reading this thread. I really tried hard not to, but couldn't help myself.
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tehbillzor
Jan 30, 2010, 12:23 AM
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What about bolting cracks for people who simply cant afford a trad rack.
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tehbillzor
Jan 30, 2010, 2:26 AM
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No; I don't want obama to do anything but resign, but that is neither here nor their. All that I am saying is that having bolted routes are very convenient for me, and most of the people who I climb with (college ages) because we don't have $1500+ to spend on trad gear.
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climbingtrash
Jan 30, 2010, 3:36 AM
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tehbillzor wrote: No; I don't want obama to do anything but resign, but that is neither here nor their. All that I am saying is that having bolted routes are very convenient for me, and most of the people who I climb with (college ages) because we don't have $1500+ to spend on trad gear.
Okay, good...we'll keep 0bama outta this.
So it's like this...bolts aren't placed to make a climb convienent. They're placed to protect unprotectable routes.(face climbs in most cases) Crack climbing was an established style of climbing looong before the bolting of sport routes. The idea of bolting cracks to make them more accessible to the young, poor and scared has been mention many times before on this site, usually by someone who is new to the sport and can't afford the gear. Hey, I was there once too. I haven't been to college either...but I own a rack, and a home, and I manage to get out climbing a fair amount. Enjoy clipping bolts for now. Finnish school or get a job, and if you stick with this sport you'll find the money to buy a rack. We all did.
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climbingtrash
Jan 30, 2010, 5:36 AM
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olderic
Jan 30, 2010, 2:56 PM
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tehbillzor wrote: No; I don't want obama to do anything but resign, but that is neither here nor their. All that I am saying is that having bolted routes are very convenient for me, and most of the people who I climb with (college ages) because we don't have $1500+ to spend on trad gear.
Vintage whine. Wasn't good when it was young and has gained no credibility with age.
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climbingtrash
Jan 30, 2010, 3:11 PM
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camhead wrote: climbingtrash wrote: Finnish school or get a job You could even get a job at Finnish School!
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shockabuku
Jan 30, 2010, 5:25 PM
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tehbillzor wrote: No; I don't want obama to do anything but resign, but that is neither here nor their. All that I am saying is that having bolted routes are very convenient for me, and most of the people who I climb with (college ages) because we don't have $1500+ to spend on trad gear.
You want someone else to spend their money, and their time, to bolt a crack for you because you'd rather spend your money and time going to college?
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johnwesely
Jan 30, 2010, 6:00 PM
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tehbillzor wrote: What about bolting cracks for people who simply cant afford a trad rack.
Boo hoo hoo. Guess what Billzor? I am in college, and guess what? I have a trad rack, And guess what? I bought it all with money from part time jobs that payed between 7 and 9 dollars an hour, and guess what? You are a whiny baby.
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tehbillzor
Jan 30, 2010, 8:53 PM
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Johnwesly it is great that you have the ingenuity to purchase a rack, but every ones situation is different. My intent was not to be a whinny baby, but rather to communicate my point of view on the topic. I guess what I don't understand is why having bolts 2-3ft off of a crack would ruin it for a trad climber. Perhaps once I have done my fair share of trad climbs I will understand.
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johnwesely
Jan 30, 2010, 9:05 PM
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tehbillzor wrote: Johnwesly it is great that you have the ingenuity to purchase a rack, but every ones situation is different. My intent was not to be a whinny baby, but rather to communicate my point of view on the topic. I guess what I don't understand is why having bolts 2-3ft off of a crack would ruin it for a trad climber. Perhaps once I have done my fair share of trad climbs I will understand.
It ruins it because it eliminates the commitment nature of the climb. When you rack up at the base of a climb, the rock is all there is. You have to climb it as is. The easy to protect sections are there. The runouts are there. When you start climbing a gear route, you are making a commitment. If there were bolts on it, then you could bail at any time. If the bolts are not there, then you don't have a choice. It is an arbitrary path to self reliance, but it is a whole lot of fun.
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johnwesely
Jan 30, 2010, 9:24 PM
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camhead wrote: tehbillzor wrote: Johnwesly it is great that you have the ingenuity to purchase a rack, but every ones situation is different. My intent was not to be a whinny baby, but rather to communicate my point of view on the topic. I guess what I don't understand is why having bolts 2-3ft off of a crack would ruin it for a trad climber. Perhaps once I have done my fair share of trad climbs I will understand. I don't understand why they don't pave more backcountry hiking trails. Lots more people who are unable to walk on dirt and rocks would be able to hike on them, and if you don't like them, you can just still walk off to the side of the asphault.
Actually, Imagine how sweet it would be to rollerblade to the crag.
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tehbillzor
Jan 30, 2010, 9:32 PM
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I started laughing after reading your post and your signature underneath it, But I would prefer to get paved roads and cell reception where I am rather than paved hiking trails.
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jomagam
Jan 30, 2010, 9:44 PM
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Drill baby, drill !!!
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jt512
Jan 31, 2010, 3:29 AM
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camhead wrote: climbingtrash wrote: Finnish school or get a job You could even get a job at Finnish School!
I think he meant Finnish school or get a jörb.
Jay
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sbaclimber
Jan 31, 2010, 1:45 PM
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johnwesely wrote: camhead wrote: tehbillzor wrote: Johnwesly it is great that you have the ingenuity to purchase a rack, but every ones situation is different. My intent was not to be a whinny baby, but rather to communicate my point of view on the topic. I guess what I don't understand is why having bolts 2-3ft off of a crack would ruin it for a trad climber. Perhaps once I have done my fair share of trad climbs I will understand. I don't understand why they don't pave more backcountry hiking trails. Lots more people who are unable to walk on dirt and rocks would be able to hike on them, and if you don't like them, you can just still walk off to the side of the asphault. Actually, Imagine how sweet it would be to rollerblade to the crag. 
There is a very small boulder / toprope chunk of rock close to my old community college, and right on a nice paved bike/blade-way. I skated there a couple times to go climbing. I was a fun way to warm up
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budman
Jan 31, 2010, 2:52 PM
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If you want to bolt a crack go right ahead. It only shows your lack of respect for those who came before you and and arrogance and entitlement of a spoiled brat. You can climb with people that have gear and almost always share, learn the skills necessary or bring the stone to your level. Just because you can doesn't mean you should. Bolting a crack only shows how low one will stoop to say I climbed it. I personally have more respect for those that backed off something and never climb it than those that brought it down to their level. Must admit my roots in climbing are way traditional and I thank those that taught me the restraint to climb with respect. And yes there are many things I haven't gotten up and many things I'll never be able to do and each and every one is on my list to do until I am no longer here.
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angry
Jan 31, 2010, 3:09 PM
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camhead wrote: tehbillzor wrote: Johnwesly it is great that you have the ingenuity to purchase a rack, but every ones situation is different. My intent was not to be a whinny baby, but rather to communicate my point of view on the topic. I guess what I don't understand is why having bolts 2-3ft off of a crack would ruin it for a trad climber. Perhaps once I have done my fair share of trad climbs I will understand. I don't understand why they don't pave more backcountry hiking trails. Lots more people who are unable to walk on dirt and rocks would be able to hike on them, and if you don't like them, you can just still walk off to the side of the asphault.
I can climb DWS all day within 20 feet of my scooter.
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boymeetsrock
Jan 31, 2010, 3:52 PM
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tehbillzor wrote: No; I don't want obama to do anything but resign, but that is neither here nor their. All that I am saying is that having bolted routes are very convenient for me, and most of the people who I climb with (college ages) because we don't have $1500+ to spend on trad gear.
Lay of teh weed for a couple of weeks and you're half way there.
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tehbillzor
Jan 31, 2010, 3:59 PM
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You actually pay for that stuff 
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boymeetsrock
Jan 31, 2010, 4:00 PM
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jt512 wrote: budman wrote: If you want to bolt a crack go right ahead. It only shows your lack of respect for those who came before you and and arrogance and entitlement of a spoiled brat. You can climb with people that have gear and almost always share, learn the skills necessary or bring the stone to your level. Just because you can doesn't mean you should. Bolting a crack only shows how low one will stoop to say I climbed it. I personally have more respect for those that backed off something and never climb it than those that brought it down to their level. Must admit my roots in climbing are way traditional and I thank those that taught me the restraint to climb with respect. And yes there are many things I haven't gotten up and many things I'll never be able to do and each and every one is on my list to do until I am no longer here. So how do you feel about this? [img]http://www.rockclimbing.com/images/photos/assets/1/286941-largest_76392.jpg[/img] (What took me so long?) Jay
Seriously, 4 1/2 years.?. You're slipping.
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budman
Jan 31, 2010, 4:36 PM
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Picture is worth a thousand words. Like I said do as you like. I don't have to live with you, you do. As to rock quality and type it surely plays a part in the ethical question. Is it limestone of a quality that would not accept a fall on cams or such? Would have preferred to see it drilled on lead but many don't take the time to do it in style. There is a climb near my home that has sat for 10 years that I know of with a couple of bolts only because the gentleman doing the route could not place the next hook to drill with toproping being dead easy. It's left as a project because the style in which it establishes the route is as important as the route. Admire his style and glad he is a friend and always pushing the limits of climbing.
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boymeetsrock
Jan 31, 2010, 4:37 PM
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johnwesely wrote: camhead wrote: tehbillzor wrote: Johnwesly it is great that you have the ingenuity to purchase a rack, but every ones situation is different. My intent was not to be a whinny baby, but rather to communicate my point of view on the topic. I guess what I don't understand is why having bolts 2-3ft off of a crack would ruin it for a trad climber. Perhaps once I have done my fair share of trad climbs I will understand. I don't understand why they don't pave more backcountry hiking trails. Lots more people who are unable to walk on dirt and rocks would be able to hike on them, and if you don't like them, you can just still walk off to the side of the asphault. Actually, Imagine how sweet it would be to rollerblade to the crag.
It'd be like a modern cross training facility. Rollerblade to the crag. RP some gnarly cracks with the supperlight draws. Then if the pump overwhelms you, you can cruise your Hover-round home.
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climbingtrash
Jan 31, 2010, 5:52 PM
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Ha, yeah...that's what I thought too. Wow...real handy over on that other thread.
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jt512
Jan 31, 2010, 6:24 PM
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climbingtrash wrote: Ha, yeah...that's what I thought too. Wow...real handy over on that other thread.
Thats sew cute. Yew think your cleaver, dont chew.
Jay
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climbingtrash
Jan 31, 2010, 8:13 PM
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jt512 wrote: climbingtrash wrote: Ha, yeah...that's what I thought too. Wow...real handy over on that other thread. Thats sew cute. Yew think your cleaver, dont chew. Jay
Yep...cleaver and cute. *sigh* I've been outed...
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potreroed
Jan 31, 2010, 11:21 PM
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budman wrote: If you want to bolt a crack go right ahead. It only shows your lack of respect for those who came before you and and arrogance and entitlement of a spoiled brat. You can climb with people that have gear and almost always share, learn the skills necessary or bring the stone to your level. Just because you can doesn't mean you should. Bolting a crack only shows how low one will stoop to say I climbed it. I personally have more respect for those that backed off something and never climb it than those that brought it down to their level. Must admit my roots in climbing are way traditional and I thank those that taught me the restraint to climb with respect. And yes there are many things I haven't gotten up and many things I'll never be able to do and each and every one is on my list to do until I am no longer here.
What about doing the FA on trad gear then bolting it for the masses?
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budman
Jan 31, 2010, 11:50 PM
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I like the question as I believe it is asked in honesty. The answer is a bit tongue in cheek. A trad crack is just that. A bolted crack is a mere layback with no jamming skills what so ever required for the most part. If you can jam then your probably going to want to climb it straight in and that is perfect for placing gear. For me climbing is placing gear and leaving as little trace as possible. I'm not climbing hard and it is a joke to think I ever did but it just has never been ALL about the numbers but more the style. I clip bolts with delight when I come across them on run out terrain, slabs (they scare the shit out of me but I climb them because I like getting better at what scares me), great face climbs, and bolts ladders on aid climbs, oh yes and those big 1/2 inchers when I'm pump at the anchor. Bolts make me feel safe when climbing but it's leaving that comfort zone that draws me to climbing in general. If you want to climb cracks without bolts give me a call as there are many where I live.
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jt512
Jan 31, 2010, 11:53 PM
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budman wrote: For me climbing is placing gear....
That just about says it all.
Jay
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A-Bowl
Feb 1, 2010, 12:00 AM
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There are quite a few bolted cracks in Owen's River Gorge Ca... This is kinda excusable due to the brittle nature of the rock. Many placements could shatter rock around them and fail. One of my favorite cracks is there and fully bolted. Bolting cracks at most sport places is rediculous though... carrying and purchasing a rack big enough to climb single pitch cracks is so easy. 4 cams and nuts is cheap and weighs the same as a full rack of draws.
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angry
Feb 1, 2010, 12:00 AM
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Motherfucker!!
(This post was edited by angry on Feb 1, 2010, 12:01 AM)
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budman
Feb 1, 2010, 12:01 AM
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Sorry Dude but it was "Climbing is placing gear and leaving as little trace as possible". The later being as important as the prior.
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johnwesely
Feb 1, 2010, 12:17 AM
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sbaclimber wrote: johnwesely wrote: camhead wrote: tehbillzor wrote: Johnwesly it is great that you have the ingenuity to purchase a rack, but every ones situation is different. My intent was not to be a whinny baby, but rather to communicate my point of view on the topic. I guess what I don't understand is why having bolts 2-3ft off of a crack would ruin it for a trad climber. Perhaps once I have done my fair share of trad climbs I will understand. I don't understand why they don't pave more backcountry hiking trails. Lots more people who are unable to walk on dirt and rocks would be able to hike on them, and if you don't like them, you can just still walk off to the side of the asphault. Actually, Imagine how sweet it would be to rollerblade to the crag. It is! .....as long as you don't have a full trad rack with you There is a very small boulder / toprope chunk of rock close to my old community college, and right on a nice paved bike/blade-way. I skated there a couple times to go climbing. I was a fun way to warm up
We have proof that it is awesome.
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jt512
Feb 1, 2010, 12:24 AM
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budman wrote: Sorry Dude but it was "Climbing is placing gear and leaving as little trace as possible". The later being as important as the prior.
Doesn't change my point.
Jay
(This post was edited by jt512 on Feb 1, 2010, 12:24 AM)
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budman
Feb 1, 2010, 12:34 AM
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And that is? I like to climb with as little trace as possible where you would rather leave your mark on the world (such as a bolt). or am I just reading toooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much into it.
(This post was edited by budman on Feb 1, 2010, 12:40 AM)
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jt512
Feb 1, 2010, 1:02 AM
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budman wrote: And that is?
You're a gearhead.
Jay
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airscape
Feb 1, 2010, 6:30 AM
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budman wrote: And that is? I like to climb with as little trace as possible where you would rather leave your mark on the world (such as a bolt). or am I just reading toooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much into it.
Little trace??
Yah I love those sling garbage heaps above trad routes.
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budman
Feb 1, 2010, 1:15 PM
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Yes I am. I have at least a dozen quickdraws on my rack.
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budman
Feb 1, 2010, 1:17 PM
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Always carry a knife and fresh webbing to help clean up as well as rebolt bad anchors around home.
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airscape
Feb 1, 2010, 1:33 PM
Post #111 of 132
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budman wrote: Always carry a knife and fresh webbing to help clean up as well as rebolt bad anchors around home.
I always carry a knive in case I have to choose between my dad or sis...
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budman
Feb 1, 2010, 1:37 PM
Post #112 of 132
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Good for you, my Dad is dead and my Sis don't climb. I surely don't have your problem.
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sbaclimber
Feb 1, 2010, 1:48 PM
Post #113 of 132
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airscape wrote: budman wrote: Always carry a knife and fresh webbing to help clean up as well as rebolt bad anchors around home. I always carry a knive in case I have to choose between my dad or sis... 
Edit, what a horrible horrible horrible movie.....
(This post was edited by sbaclimber on Feb 1, 2010, 1:49 PM)
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tehbillzor
Feb 1, 2010, 2:03 PM
Post #114 of 132
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airscape wrote: budman wrote: Always carry a knife and fresh webbing to help clean up as well as rebolt bad anchors around home. I always carry a knive in case I have to choose between my dad or sis...
Oh, I thought the knife was to cut the"bad guy" off the rope and watch him fall into a hole in the earth.
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airscape
Feb 1, 2010, 2:13 PM
Post #116 of 132
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budman wrote: Good for you, my Dad is dead and my Sis don't climb. I surely don't have your problem.
Dude... Who pissed on your battery?
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budman
Feb 1, 2010, 2:41 PM
Post #118 of 132
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Knew right where it came and it went right over your head. It's been fun.
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tehbillzor
Feb 1, 2010, 4:06 PM
Post #119 of 132
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yes i understood the reference, but i was referring to the end of the same movie when Montgomery wick also cut the rope...
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I_do
Feb 1, 2010, 5:41 PM
Post #120 of 132
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budman wrote: I like the question as I believe it is asked in honesty. The answer is a bit tongue in cheek. A trad crack is just that. A bolted crack is a mere layback with no jamming skills what so ever required for the most part. If you can jam then your probably going to want to climb it straight in and that is perfect for placing gear. For me climbing is placing gear and leaving as little trace as possible. I'm not climbing hard and it is a joke to think I ever did but it just has never been ALL about the numbers but more the style. I clip bolts with delight when I come across them on run out terrain, slabs (they scare the shit out of me but I climb them because I like getting better at what scares me), great face climbs, and bolts ladders on aid climbs, oh yes and those big 1/2 inchers when I'm pump at the anchor. Bolts make me feel safe when climbing but it's leaving that comfort zone that draws me to climbing in general. If you want to climb cracks without bolts give me a call as there are many where I live.
Ever go to any popular trad crags?
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sbaclimber
Feb 1, 2010, 7:06 PM
Post #121 of 132
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I_do wrote: budman wrote: I like the question as I believe it is asked in honesty. The answer is a bit tongue in cheek. A trad crack is just that. A bolted crack is a mere layback with no jamming skills what so ever required for the most part. If you can jam then your probably going to want to climb it straight in and that is perfect for placing gear. For me climbing is placing gear and leaving as little trace as possible. I'm not climbing hard and it is a joke to think I ever did but it just has never been ALL about the numbers but more the style. I clip bolts with delight when I come across them on run out terrain, slabs (they scare the shit out of me but I climb them because I like getting better at what scares me), great face climbs, and bolts ladders on aid climbs, oh yes and those big 1/2 inchers when I'm pump at the anchor. Bolts make me feel safe when climbing but it's leaving that comfort zone that draws me to climbing in general. If you want to climb cracks without bolts give me a call as there are many where I live. Ever go to any popular trad crags?
....I missed something
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dynosore
Feb 1, 2010, 7:18 PM
Post #122 of 132
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tehbillzor wrote: What about bolting cracks for people who simply cant afford a trad rack.
Yeah, and while we're at it, I could use someone to carry me up 5.12 trad, I'm simply too old, injured, and busy to train to climb at that level. How about you? I'll let you use my rack.
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I_do
Feb 1, 2010, 7:27 PM
Post #123 of 132
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sbaclimber wrote: I_do wrote: budman wrote: I like the question as I believe it is asked in honesty. The answer is a bit tongue in cheek. A trad crack is just that. A bolted crack is a mere layback with no jamming skills what so ever required for the most part. If you can jam then your probably going to want to climb it straight in and that is perfect for placing gear. For me climbing is placing gear and leaving as little trace as possible. I'm not climbing hard and it is a joke to think I ever did but it just has never been ALL about the numbers but more the style. I clip bolts with delight when I come across them on run out terrain, slabs (they scare the shit out of me but I climb them because I like getting better at what scares me), great face climbs, and bolts ladders on aid climbs, oh yes and those big 1/2 inchers when I'm pump at the anchor. Bolts make me feel safe when climbing but it's leaving that comfort zone that draws me to climbing in general. If you want to climb cracks without bolts give me a call as there are many where I live. Ever go to any popular trad crags? Hunh? ....I missed something
Eeuhhm I was definetaly very unclear entschuldigung.
What I meant to say was this, of al the effects climbing has on it's surroundings bolts are the least of our worries. Having lots of people walk around in "nature" has far more influence on the ecosystem then bolts which have close to 0 impact on the surrounding wildlife. I really feel that the tradsters who say they don't want to leave a trace need to stay at home or acknowledge their presence in the crag has a far greater effect on their surroundings then bolts will ever have.
Cheers
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sbaclimber
Feb 1, 2010, 7:31 PM
Post #124 of 132
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Registered: Jan 22, 2004
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I_do wrote: sbaclimber wrote: I_do wrote: budman wrote: I like the question as I believe it is asked in honesty. The answer is a bit tongue in cheek. A trad crack is just that. A bolted crack is a mere layback with no jamming skills what so ever required for the most part. If you can jam then your probably going to want to climb it straight in and that is perfect for placing gear. For me climbing is placing gear and leaving as little trace as possible. I'm not climbing hard and it is a joke to think I ever did but it just has never been ALL about the numbers but more the style. I clip bolts with delight when I come across them on run out terrain, slabs (they scare the shit out of me but I climb them because I like getting better at what scares me), great face climbs, and bolts ladders on aid climbs, oh yes and those big 1/2 inchers when I'm pump at the anchor. Bolts make me feel safe when climbing but it's leaving that comfort zone that draws me to climbing in general. If you want to climb cracks without bolts give me a call as there are many where I live. Ever go to any popular trad crags? Hunh? ....I missed something Eeuhhm I was definetaly very unclear entschuldigung. What I meant to say was this, of al the effects climbing has on it's surroundings bolts are the least of our worries. Having lots of people walk around in "nature" has far more influence on the ecosystem then bolts which have close to 0 impact on the surrounding wildlife. I really feel that the tradsters who say they don't want to leave a trace need to stay at home or acknowledge their presence in the crag has a far greater effect on their surroundings then bolts will ever have. Cheers 
If the bolting is done properly, you do have a point....
Edit, PS, no need to excuse yourself in german....it isn't my mother-tongue anyway...
(and you are mostly likely waaaaaaayyyyy better at writing it than I)
(This post was edited by sbaclimber on Feb 1, 2010, 7:33 PM)
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tehbillzor
Feb 1, 2010, 7:38 PM
Post #125 of 132
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Registered: Jan 26, 2010
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In reply to: Yeah, and while we're at it, I could use someone to carry me up 5.12 trad, I'm simply too old, injured, and busy to train to climb at that level. How about you? I'll let you use my rack.
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budman
Feb 1, 2010, 8:06 PM
Post #126 of 132
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Registered: Nov 10, 2004
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Seeing where your from I think I understand. Yes. More or less learned to climb at The Gunks, more like a busy Manhattan street. Live about 45 minutes from Indian Creek, more over run than popular. Joshua Tree, The Valley, Devils Tower, New River Gorge (lots of 5.10's), Seneca, Little Cottonwoon Canyon, City of Rocks. Cathedral Ledge, and more. Keeping with the OP's question haven't seen many bolt cracks to start crack climbing on.
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cush
Feb 1, 2010, 8:20 PM
Post #127 of 132
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Registered: Oct 2, 2008
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it isn't a matter or ruining it for trad climbers. its a matter of it being entirely unnecessary to install bolts, and permanently alter and damage the rock. there's a reason the vast majority of routes that go on gear are NOT bolted. sometimes it's pretty cool to be able to go up to a face that isn't bolted all over the place because someone felt entitled to climb it just because they were either too impatient to save up, or too impatient to learn the ins and outs of gear.
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lucander
Feb 1, 2010, 9:03 PM
Post #128 of 132
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Registered: Jul 2, 2003
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Yak Crack (11/12 ish) at Red Rocks. Rumney (New Hampshire) has several retro-bolted crack climbs varying from 5.4 to very difficult.
DL
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climbingtrash
Feb 2, 2010, 12:41 AM
Post #129 of 132
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lucander wrote: Yak Crack (11/12 ish) at Red Rocks. Rumney (New Hampshire) has several retro-bolted crack climbs varying from 5.4 to very difficult. DL
Cannabis crack in AF is bolted too. I don't know about Rumny but Yak crack and Cannabis were bolted because the FA's thought it would be dumb to have one trad line on a grid bolted sport wall.
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camhead
Feb 2, 2010, 12:57 AM
Post #130 of 132
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climbingtrash wrote: lucander wrote: Yak Crack (11/12 ish) at Red Rocks. Rumney (New Hampshire) has several retro-bolted crack climbs varying from 5.4 to very difficult. DL Cannabis crack in AF is bolted too. I don't know about Rumny but Yak crack and Cannabis were bolted because the FA's thought it would be dumb to have one trad line on a grid bolted sport wall.
yeah, there is an excellent crack line in Mill Creek (though the crux is face moves) that was bolted because the FA realized that whips on stoppers at the crux would just weld them in place, leaving fixed gear. It's still a really nice route.
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cornstateclimber
Feb 2, 2010, 2:15 AM
Post #131 of 132
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but not a single bolt in the park! well not any new ones there are some on top of cleos needle and a rap anchor on top of devils doorway. maybe a few 1/4inch bolts
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acorneau
Feb 2, 2010, 5:24 PM
Post #132 of 132
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camhead wrote: yeah, there is an excellent crack line in Mill Creek (though the crux is face moves) that was bolted because the FA realized that whips on stoppers at the crux would just weld them in place, leaving fixed gear. It's still a really nice route.
Oh, the IRONING!!!!1!!one!!!
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