What is backclipping?

haha, I figured that was the case.

no big deal, i definitely plan on taking multiple classes in the area before beginning to seriously sport climb and purchase the gear.

That being said, my original post was an attempt to gauge whether I am of a skill level high enough to even begin learning about sport climbing, or if i would be better off sticking with toprope.

thanks for the advice

Buy or borrow a quickdraw and a rope (if you don't already have these) and spend a lot of time practicing clipping. You can waste a hell of a lot of energy on lead if your clipping isn't efficient.

How much are you planning to pay for these 'classes'?!?! That sounds like a bit of a sham to me. Surely you have some friends at the gym that can show and tell you how to lead.

You might want to take a class or get someone experienced to show you. If you dont know what back clipping, or Z-clipping is, then you are probably not quite ready for it. I'm not flaming you, just trying to keep you out of the obituaries.

What is backclipping?

youve been climbing a year and can only TR 5.9. im not trying to be mean but isnt that a little low. i mean ive been climbing about a year and am comfortable climbing mid-high 10's topping out at 11b. i dont know if you are trying harder routes but if you arent i advise you do. work on them if you fall.


as to the question are you good enough to start sport climbing. as long as you feel comfortable on the route and have confidence in gear and belayer then you are ready.

While backclipping is annoying, it's generally not going to get you in to the obituaries. At worst you get stuck and lowered very slowly. Of dangerous things one needs to know about lead climbing, backclipping is a ways down the list.

youve been climbing a year and can only TR 5.9. im not trying to be mean but isnt that a little low. i mean ive been climbing about a year and am comfortable climbing mid-high 10's topping out at 11b. i dont know if you are trying harder routes but if you arent i advise you do. work on them if you fall.


as to the question are you good enough to start sport climbing. as long as you feel comfortable on the route and have confidence in gear and belayer then you are ready.

You must be so proud! Is your penis big, too?

youve been climbing a year and can only TR 5.9. im not trying to be mean but isnt that a little low. i mean ive been climbing about a year and am comfortable climbing mid-high 10's topping out at 11b. i dont know if you are trying harder routes but if you arent i advise you do. work on them if you fall.

This shows me that YOU do not know what backclipping is. If you backclip and fall on it, the rope can come upclipped. That doesn't seem dangerous to you? You are descibing z-clipping. Please do not give advice if you don't know what you are talking about.

Josh

This shows me that YOU do not know what backclipping is. If you backclip and fall on it, the rope can come upclipped. That doesn't seem dangerous to you? You are descibing z-clipping. Please do not give advice if you don't know what you are talking about.

Josh

youve been climbing a year and can only TR 5.9. im not trying to be mean but isnt that a little low. i mean ive been climbing about a year and am comfortable climbing mid-high 10's topping out at 11b. i dont know if you are trying harder routes but if you arent i advise you do. work on them if you fall.

...

Wow, are you serious?

I'm sorry but I climb MAYBE once every two weeks? I don't belong to a climbing gym and climb 3-4 times a week as many hardcore climbers do.
I apologize for being at a top school that requires probably 60-70 hours a week of work, and now having a top job that also requires 60-70 hours a week of work.

You really had nothing better to say than that? I appreciate the advice. I guess since I don't climb a 5.11b I ought to just quit, right? Jackass.

If this (I assume it is) will be your first outdoor lead, then yes. Just intill you become confident in the system of sport climbing, and adjust to leading on real rock. By that I mean for no more than like, 3 pitches.

Z-clipping can be just as bad or worse. If you don´t notice it and your belayer doesn´t either, you can climb right past and, should you fall, your fall factor would increase significantly...

Oh, I can pretty much guarantee that you would notice it. It would suddenly feel like you are carrying a mack truck up with you. So, unless you consistently compete in the World's Strongest Man competition, I think it is safe to say it would be a noticable change.

Josh

Another tip: If you do need to fix a backclip or a z-clip, and you are gripped out, clip a new draw to the bolt. Clip the rope in the correct way to the new draw. Then clean the previous ('wrong') draw. Don't try to just unclip and reclip, unless you have a good stance and are sure you can. Remember, you are going to have tons of slack out, especially if you are fixing a Z. I saw a newer climber attempt this after backclipping, fumbled around, and fell while the rope was not clipped in. He took a 30+ foot whipper and came REAL close to decking.

This thread is more dangereous than sport climbing.

Oh, I can pretty much guarantee that you would notice it. It would suddenly feel like you are carrying a mack truck up with you. So, unless you consistently compete in the World's Strongest Man competition, I think it is safe to say it would be a noticable change.

Backclipping, on the other hand, can go unnoticed, unless you have a very attentive belayer looking for it.

Josh

More importantly, if you didn't notice that you z-clipped, than you probably are not realizing that you are falling down to the lower bolt if you do fall (i.e.: You will think you are safe, because your just clipped - which is wrong). Not only are you falling farther, but you can deck.

I have to say I've never climbed anywhere where z-clipping was a real possibility. Bolts have to be placed extremely close together in order to manage it. It's still useful to know what it is for those rare instances where there's an opportunity.

If you zed clip you should be able to reach down and unclip the first bolt if you arnt comforitable trying to fix your clip.

thats mean, rude, ect. everyone gets learns at diffrent rate, no go home and have your mother teach you some manners.

Pretty sure the reason for most gyms requiring a 5.9 (TR) and higher minimum is because usually gyms don't offer climbs below 5.9 for lead. If a 5.8'er learns to lead, then we have a climber with ants in his/her pants.

Now he/she is pushing their climbing abilities AND their technical expertise.

You are half-way there...

Now explain how leading skills relate to 5.9 climbing.

How do 5.4 - 5.8 routes get led?

Is there an ethic requiring that a 5.7 climber may not lead a 5.6 climb?

If you agree that only climbers comfortable at or above 5.9 should be leading, explain the connection.

I have never done a 5.9 TR clean, but I have let many single and multi-pitch routes up to 5.6. Am I fooling myself that I am having fun and being safe?

Make a good point, somebody!

Lead climbing is MUCH harder then TR if anyone has led here... which most have i think then you all know this. So... even being able to TR a 5.9 its a different story to lead a 5.9.

Theres not any bolted routes below 5.9 that ive seen and ive climbed many places.

As well in gyms its not smart for gyms to set sub 5.9 lead routes becuase nobody will get on them.

The thought is generally that if you cant learn to lead because a 5.9 is too difficult then you shouldnt be leading in the first place. that is what the gyms are saying its not difficult to understand.

thats the way it is, deal with it.

Fortunately, not all gyms have this unreasonable attitude.

exactly the point ive been saying like 5 times now. neways im done with this thread ppl just want to bitch around here.

how is that unreasonable?

what the point of teaching someone to lead if they arent even competent climbers? by competent I mean 5.8 is pretty damn easy, like a ladder. why add another thing to learn to someone who still has a lot of basics to learn? It's setting them up for failure which in turn will make them not like the sport.

on second thought, go ahead and teach 5.8 climbers to lead so they quit the sport and leave more stuff for others to climb

I see from your profile that you've onsighted Bear's Reach twice. Was it like a ladder?

I think, Captain Pollution, that what you're failing to grasp is that physical climbing ability in a gym does not always translate to whether or not the person is qualified to lead. There are plenty of badass old alpine climbers who are not currently capable of overhanging gym 5.9.

I'm getting bored of this thread. Someone make a NEW argument!

I see from your profile that you've onsighted Bear's Reach twice. Was it like a ladder?

[a climbing gym is] a shitty place to work. too many N00BS who think they are the shit but are big vagina's in the real

its not the grade you can climb its the competency of the climber.

It makes no sense to deny competent climbers the access to leading just because they don't climb 5.9 or higher. I'm not sure that any opinions have actually changed due to these exchanges, but I was hoping that some would.

Heh, watching the hard dudes who work in climbing gyms get out on real rock can be very entertaining. Too bad it doesn't happen very often.

JL

Where are you going to find sub 5.8 or 5.9 leads in a gym or even outdoors for that matter? Theres not any bolted routes below 5.9 that ive seen and ive climbed many places. As well in gyms its not smart for gyms to set sub 5.9 lead routes becuase nobody will get on them.

You should be able to lead 11 sport routes before you should start sport climbing. I just did the other night so now I'm ready.

Wow, did I ever cheesetit that one.

cheesetitter.

Wow, did I ever cheesetit that one.

You should be able to lead 11 sport routes before you should start sport climbing. I just did the other night so now I'm ready.

It was nice to find that Adrenaline was not nearly as uptight as I would have assumed from the above post. It was a great change of pace from my regular gym too.

JL

As you saw, there is a LOT of lead terrain at Adrenaline

I think a lot of people are missing Oldsalt's point, and though you probably didn't mean to do so, your statement above reinforces it: learning lead climbing at the 5.9 level doesn't make sense.

Apart from the most basic movement involved in climbing, toproping in no way prepares you for leading, which involves a whole new set of skills. As you pointed out in your post, you're not just climbing anymore; you're also dealing with hanging out long enough to clip, clipping correctly, avoiding the leg behind the rope, etc.

It seems far more sensible to learn these new skills on a route that's so easy and/or juggy that you don't really need to worry about falling. By the time the new leader gets on 5.9 and harder routes, he or she has all this new stuff internalized.

JL