Get hexes, learn to use passive pro well, don't become dependent on cams.

Why?

You may not have enough cams for the placement, you may want to save your last cam for a know placement at the crux, you may not yet have enough cams period.

A set of BD nuts (10) is 70 bucks, BD wire hexs are 9 to 15 dollars each, toss in a few tri cams (14 to 25) . 10 nuts, 5 hex, 3 tri cams , lets just say 170 bucks. Not bad for a starter rack for single pitch climb (other gear you need as well slings, belay device etc).

For the price of three C4 cams (2 1's and a 2) 65x3 = 195 bucks.

Prices vary somewhat and Canadian dollar but you get the idea.

Its the same attitude of learn how to use a hammer before you learn how to use a nail gun. Its just learning the fundamentals of placing pro.

I have, and use, all three.

Of course they can all be useful; eventually, I'll get all three, but the question here is what should I buy first

Get hexes, learn to use passive pro well, don't become dependent on cams.

Then look back to see which one I gave the most space to in my post and you'll get my opinion. Tricams take a little more practice, but IMO it is time well-spent. The same is true for hexes.

If you get addicted to active cams, you'll always try to find a way to place one of them and you won't spend the time to learn how to get good hex or tricam placements.

So get some (smaller sizes are the most useful) tricams and a few larger hexes and learn to place them before you start buying and relying on cams.

Cams are so much easier to place and more versatile than hexes, that few experienced climbers carry them anymore, except for alpine climbing where a minimal rack is needed. For run-of-the-mill trad climbing the only reason to buy hexes is because you can't afford a second set of cams. Once you can, your hexes will just collect dust in your garage.

Jay

I think you should have said one needs to learn how to start the car before driving it.
We all use cams here were just saying spend 200 bucks on 4 cams and sit at home collecting dust yourself or spend 200 bucks on nuts, hexs, and tri cams and be climbing tomorrow.

Of course they can all be useful; eventually, I'll get all three, but the question here is what should I buy first

Thanks

Allright
After a lot of thought, I'm probably buying a set of tricams 0.5-2 first and perhaps a few larger hexes if I can afford them. I'll worry about cams and my second set of nuts later...
And I have discovered something. I am past the point of no return for gear-whoredom

I have a set of hexes. They sit in my closet everytime I go climbing. Eventually, even if you get hexes now, you will get cams. When you do, you will probably not want to carry a set of cams and a set of hexes, so you will leave those behing too.

Whenever friends looking to build up a rack ask me what to get, or should I get the cheaper cams instead of these cams that I really want I always tell them the same thing. Place many different types, see what you like. Then, buy that. If you buy other cams first b/c they are cheaper, you would have been much better off just buying the other ones to begin with. I would say that same logic applies to hexes as well.

And if you do decide to buy cams, it may be wise to save up and buy them all at once. You can usually save a little green when you do it that way.

Good luck.

~Kevin

Of course they can all be useful; eventually, I'll get all three, but the question here is what should I buy first

Thanks

Allright
After a lot of thought, I'm probably buying a set of tricams 0.5-2 first and perhaps a few larger hexes if I can afford them. I'll worry about cams and my second set of nuts later...
And I have discovered something. I am past the point of no return for gear-whoredom

Allright
After a lot of thought, I'm probably buying a set of tricams 0.5-2 first and perhaps a few larger hexes if I can afford them. I'll worry about cams and my second set of nuts later...

Hexs, five differnet ones (yes some people buy them then get cams and they sit on your shelf , others love them).

The expert n00b speaks again.

Alex, I do not know a single experienced (and by experience I mean skillful) climber who carries hexes on his trad rack. It should be obvious why, but since it apparently isn't to you, go try leading a difficult route with hexes. This isn't the '70s. There's a reason why cams were invented.

I do not know a single experienced (and by experience I mean skillful) climber who carries hexes on his trad rack.

Well, you also don't live near Seneca Rocks. There are places at Seneca where the right hex will provide vastly better protection than any cam. It's nice to have them on hand for those situations. Additionally, they're good to have for building gear anchors on ledges, where the fussing around is not such an issue.
If I had no rack and was faced with the choice between spending 60 bucks on one cam or 4 hexes, I would buy the hexes. But then again, I mainly climb at Seneca.

I've never climbed at Seneca, but I've climbed a bunch of other places, and really can't imagine a route on which I'd prefer to have hexes over cams. Do people climbing mid-5.10 and harder routes at Seneca really prefer to place hexes over cams (and I'm not counting the old-school hardmen who have been placing hexes for 30 years)? Even if the placements were technically better for hexes, I would think that that would be trumped by the relative ease of placing cams. On a strenuous route, you don't want to have to fiddle around finessing a hex into place when you could "just slam in" a cam.

Jay

Can't find the Rock and Ice article about it, but in that article Pat said that the key to protecting the crux was a small hex, so how's that for top level climbing? Lots of people still do use hexes, even those that are climbing hard, and just because you have a personal preference against them doesn't mean that they are obsolete,

I've never climbed at Seneca, but I've climbed a bunch of other places, and really can't imagine a route on which I'd prefer to have hexes over cams. Do people climbing mid-5.10 and harder routes at Seneca really prefer to place hexes over cams (and I'm not counting the old-school hardmen who have been placing hexes for 30 years)? Even if the placements were technically better for hexes, I would think that that would be trumped by the relative ease of placing cams. On a strenuous route, you don't want to have to fiddle around finessing a hex into place when you could "just slam in" a cam.

Jay

Thanks a lot for your responses

Someone asked about the type of cracks. There's smooth vertical parallel cracks and also some rough cracks that are a little bit inclined. The width ranges from large fingers to chimeneys.

The thing is, I want to start leading easy single-pitch routes with my own gear as soon as I can, since my mentor is not always there. I have practiced placing pro for quite a while now, and I feel confident placing nuts and cams.

My reasons for wanting cams:
They are much more versatile
Easier to place-don't get too tired if on a lousy stance
I have more experience placing them

My reasons for wanting hexes/tricams:
I could get a lot more, which means I can have enough for climbing soon
I want to get better at placing passive pro
With more gear, I can protect more types of cracks

...Pat said that the key to protecting the crux was a small hex, so how's that for top level climbing? Lots of people still do use hexes, even those that are climbing hard, and just because you have a personal preference against them doesn't mean that they are obsolete,

zzzzzzz...

^^^^ I didn't write that. Did you mean to flame me, or the guy who did write it?

Is dangerous misinformation when I say that at my local crag there are plenty of routes that protect well with hexes, especially for the newer leader?

Or was that a more general comment, about dangerous misinformation?

I know plenty of people who have been climbing for years and may never lead anything harder than these routes [5.7]. Surely there is more to being a gumby than YDS rating?

All I said is that they were a worthwhile investment for me, and one that I would make again, if I were given the choice.

I would tend to call anyone who has been climbing "for years," and can't climb harder than most climbers can their first day out, a gumby.

Fascinating!

It is really amazing to see some posters advocating purchasing hexes even when you know(!!) that they will be collecting dust in 6 months.

I am not sure how that is a good investment.

if money is really the limiting factor, why would you buy something that you know you are not going to use in a couple months?

If you really want to buy some hexes, at least get a whole set for like 20 bucks on ebay, from someone else who made the mistake people are urging you to make here.

Let me try again: it makes sense to me to purchase hexes if it means the difference between climbing tomorrow, and waiting 6-12+ months. Or, in my case, 18+ months.

Should I have just stayed home and spanked the monkey all that time instead?

But, you make a good point about eBay.

I'm buying a new rack, but I don't know if I should get one (maybe even two) cam or use the money to buy hexes and/or tricams

Could any of you guys help me out?

I would tend to call anyone who has been climbing "for years," and can't climb harder than most climbers can their first day out, a gumby.

I have never placed a hex on a route harder than 5.7

As a 'Trad' climber its almost a right of passage to buy the pink and red tricams and the #7, #8, and #9 hexes. They are not that expensive, and then you could decide for yourself if you like them or not. I personally like them, but I know of no one who has or climbs on a complete set of tricams or hexes.

The expert n00b speaks again.

Alex, I do not know a single experienced (and by experience I mean skillful) climber who carries hexes on his trad rack. It should be obvious why, but since it apparently isn't to you, go try leading a difficult route with hexes. This isn't the '70s. There's a reason why cams were invented.

Jay

As a 'Trad' climber its almost a right of passage to buy the pink and red tricams and the #7, #8, and #9 hexes. They are not that expensive, and then you could decide for yourself if you like them or not. I personally like them, but I know of no one who has or climbs on a complete set of tricams or hexes.

Well I'm a novice trad guy, and my goal for 2007 is to have fun on "every route on Kid Goat" which is maybe 40 routes, from 5.4 to 5.10, mostly 5.7, mostly 5 pitches. It's partially bolted, some pitches not bolted at all.

But I don't like placing cams, and I don't like cleaning them. They feel "squishy" to me. The security they offer feels "magic".

On easier limestone, a hexcentric placement is solid, or it is not. That's a psychological advantage: I know where it is. If it works, then "I did it". If it shakes out, then "I did it".

My climbing buddy Andrew uses his cams, for speed. He laughs at my dis-trust for these gadgets.

The advantage I need more than all the gadgets in the world, is "experience". I need time on the rocks, and the sun and the wind. Which is all I ever wanted, anyway!

my goal for 2007 is to have fun on "every route on Kid Goat"

I climbed with Fred Beckey last year...

This cams versus hexes debate is so completely stupid, I wasn't going to get involved. But then Jay trolled:


So in response: I carry hexes. And I know others who do, too. Not all the time, but when appropriate. Speaking for myself, I've been climbing nine years, have onsighted hard 5.11 trad. Do I qualify as "skillful", Jay?

There's no point explaining *why*...

Uninformed posts, like yours, which overwhelm any useful content on this site, are precisely why few expert climbers have the patience to post here.

Jay

Yeah, there is. Why? I don't know a single climber who carries hexes. Not a one. None. Nada. A5+ sponsored expedition-to-Banff guys: no hexes. Maybe you should reconsider.

Jay

Walt Shipley swears by a set of hexes on every wall.

Thats a quote right out of John Middendorf's book. Now you can say you've heard of a well known climber that uses them.

What a dumb debate. Hexes are personal and regional.

60+ nuts, 56 cams

Thats not a rack, thats an anchor.

I climbed with Fred Beckey last year and he barely made it up the 40-foot long 5.8 I lead.

I just hope that I can make it up anything when I'm 84

MoabBeth in tail?

Yeah, there is.

Maybe you should reconsider.

Jay

We weren't talking about aid climbing.

Jay

I don't know a single climber who carries hexes. Not a one. None. Nada.

Well, yeah, you kinda were

A5+ sponsored expedition-to-Banff guys: no hexes.

Sorry,
I missed concieved it related to only trad.