Hey ladies, sorry to invade your space, but I do have a legitimate question for you. I love climbing with girls. I enjoy their skills and the way they climb. Yes I do enjoy "watching" the female body climb but I don't feel like it is a "sexual" thing. I'm not looking for a date or anything but climbing partners. Honestly, but how do I convince women to climb with me without seeming like a pervert? Or worse am I really a perv and don't know it? You would think at 45 yrs old I'd have things like this figured out!!! LOL Thanks for your time

...Yes I do enjoy "watching" the female body... [snip] ...but I don't feel like it is a "sexual" thing.

The hotter she is the more sexual my thinking is, to be perfectly honest... Her climbing ability, while important, is secondary of she's hot.

This is easy for me to see as I tend to watch the hottest climbers, even if they suck at climbing, not the most graceful.

Am I a perv ??? Nope, just a guy.




Note-My wife is the hottest climber at the gym or the crag, so I watch her only !!! That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

Hey ladies, sorry to invade your space, but I do have a legitimate question for you. I love climbing with girls. I enjoy their skills and the way they climb. Yes I do enjoy "watching" the female body climb but I don't feel like it is a "sexual" thing. I'm not looking for a date or anything but climbing partners. Honestly, but how do I convince women to climb with me without seeming like a pervert? Or worse am I really a perv and don't know it? You would think at 45 yrs old I'd have things like this figured out!!! LOL Thanks for your time

You're not.
Nothing wrong in looking at a woman climb, or walk, or work...that is generally why they wear make up and skirts, they enjoy to be looked at.

The jury may still be out on the OP... But apparently slablizard is a perv.

you should post your myspace here paolo.

Why...because I look at a woman's body and I am not afraid to admit it?

Beautiful necklesses by the way. I love "Heavens to Mergetro"

You're not.
Nothing wrong in looking at a woman climb, or walk, or work...that is generally why they wear make up and skirts, they enjoy to be looked at.

I said look, not touch. So don't start accusing me of being a sciovinist male now.

You'll understand immediately from the reaction if a woman enjoys it or not


Asking it is a bit weird thou.

I find it very hard not to look at a beautiful or sexy woman. You reveal legs or breasts to me, and I have to try very hard not to stare. Am I a perv, or is it perhaps just human nature?

Shouldn't a woman take some responsibility for her appearance? If she doesn't want to be ogled, perhaps she should save the up-to-the-butt miniskirt, cleavage enhancing push up bra and super low cut shirt for the club?

Thank you for the compliment on my stuff, and I am kidding about calling you a perv. But that's what you get when you come in the ladies room!!!

Shouldn't a woman take some responsibility for her appearance? If she doesn't want to be ogled, perhaps she should save the up-to-the-butt miniskirt, cleavage enhancing push up bra and super low cut shirt for the club?

Shouldn't a man take some responsibility for his behavior? If he doesn't want to be called a perv, perhaps he should save his pathetic, adolescent attempts at blaming everyone but himself for his own choices for somewhere other than The Ladies' Room.

In other words, you ogle, you chose to ogle. All women don't dress up just to have men like you leer at them. Besides, some of them are lesbians and have no interest in your attention at all.

I echo what was said earlier. There is a very big difference between appreciating and ogling. You would do well to learn that difference.

Shouldn't a man take some responsibility for his behavior? If he doesn't want to be called a perv, perhaps he should save his pathetic, adolescent attempts at blaming everyone but himself for his own choices for somewhere other than The Ladies' Room.

I think you're a little bit too quick to over react. Certainly i'm sure we both agree that there are generally accepted standards of dress that society expects of both women and men. We can also agree that generally, people (in spite of themselves) make judgements of stranges entirely on apperance.

With that in mind, if I dress up like a bum, I will be treated like a bum, and if a woman dresses up like a working-girl, she can expect to be treated like a working girl, by both men and women.... and in the case of men, it will likely include ogeling, and lude remarks.

No, it's not fair, and no, it's not right but it's the way society today works.

Just as a final defence, no ones ever accused me of leering or ogling a women.... nor do I think I do.

slablizard wrote:

I don't see why appreciating one's beauty has to be seen as "ogling"

I'll ask you the same thing I asked to my friend.
Would you prefer to be so ugly that no one would look at you ever? I don't think so.

And I am sure also a lesbian woman appreciate the fact that someone notices her beauty, her fit body and her tastes in dressing.

climb_eng wrote:

I think you're a little bit too quick to over react.

in the case of men, it will likely include ogeling, and lude remarks.

No, it's not fair, and no, it's not right but it's the way society today works.

Just as a final defence, no ones ever accused me of leering or ogling a women.... nor do I think I do.

I find it very hard not to look at a beautiful or sexy woman. You reveal legs or breasts to me, and I have to try very hard not to stare. Am I a perv, or is it perhaps just human nature?

Shouldn't a woman take some responsibility for her appearance? If she doesn't want to be ogled, perhaps she should save the up-to-the-butt miniskirt, cleavage enhancing push up bra and super low cut shirt for the club?

Give me a break. Its like the defense of the rapist that says, she was dressed like a hooker and out too late at night............she was asking for it"

Risque dress might make us look twice, but that doesn't give us the right to treat women lesser than if they were in sweat pants and a t-shirt. As individuals we have a right to wear whatever we want and feel good about it. We should not have to expect rude. condesencding behavior.

I really hate the whole "thats how society works" excuse.

Maybe you missed when I very explicitly stated that there is a difference between the two. Try paying attention.

Or you just don't think. As mentioned, by you and by me, there is a difference between appreciation and ogling. Your question suggests that there is no middle ground, as though women should be glad to be ogled because the only other option is being too ugly to have men want to ogle. So, so stupid, and so contrary to your own point that there is a difference between appreciation and ogling. Most women would rather not be ogled. Period.

The point is that all women do not dress up for the point of receiving male attention. That was merely one example.

Put all that aside, Ladies your climbing skills (as a rule) are superior to us guys. I appreciate the natural skills and I like to watch them. My original unanswered question. Does that make me a perv?

Yes we climbed together at the Concord gym once, and I swear..I wasn't ogling at you while belaying.

Not once ;)

Wow, this thread has degenerated into something really lame... Not that it ever had that far to go in the first place. I'm not suprised if you guys can't find women to climb with you. I'm suprised that women would talk with you if you're commenting on or staring at their body parts. Pervs AND Pigs are revealing their true character just by simply posting or defending the notion that women exist simply to be looked at and judged as ugly or attractive by men. I'm sorry, that's just lame and I really hope that none of you have little girls at home. Do us all a favor don't reproduce.

Give me a break. Its like the defense of the rapist that says, she was dressed like a hooker and out too late at night............she was asking for it"

Risque dress might make us look twice, but that doesn't give us the right to treat women lesser than if they were in sweat pants and a t-shirt. As individuals we have a right to wear whatever we want and feel good about it. We should not have to expect rude. condesencding behavior.

I really hate the whole "thats how society works" excuse.

Holy crap... this is really dredging up the worst in people. Both men and women are judged by their apperance first... if you deny it, your either blind or lying..

I dont' think you understand. People can give you an impression by their appearance, but it is your choice to judge them.

I have a friend (heck, maybe you've even met her if you're in engineering out in Calgary, so is she). She is petite, and big boobs. If you stuck both her and me in the same outfit she would instantly look sexier. She also has a bubbly personality and likes her fasion, which also adds to her physical image. I have seen people who don't give her the respect that she deserves both in school and in our profession (we both graduated electircal engineering). And it makes me sick.

She is one smart cookie and a hard worker. Smarter and harder working than I am, most likely more that you too. But I bet that you would meet her, judge her, and not let her reach her full potiential in an engineering office.

People need to earn respect, but there should be a basic level of respect that you give everyone, regarless of how they dress, how they looks, age sex and race.

In other words, you're a fool if you can't look beyond a person's clothes, makeup or boobs.

I dont' think you understand. People can give you an impression by their appearance, but it is your choice to judge them.

I have a friend (heck, maybe you've even met her if you're in engineering out in Calgary, so is she). She is petite, and big boobs. If you stuck both her and me in the same outfit she would instantly look sexier. She also has a bubbly personality and likes her fasion, which also adds to her physical image. I have seen people who don't give her the respect that she deserves both in school and in our profession (we both graduated electircal engineering). And it makes me sick.

She is one smart cookie and a hard worker. Smarter and harder working than I am, most likely more that you too. But I bet that you would meet her, judge her, and not let her reach her full potiential in an engineering office.

People need to earn respect, but there should be a basic level of respect that you give everyone, regarless of how they dress, how they looks, age sex and race.

In other words, you're a fool if you can't look beyond a person's clothes, makeup or boobs.

So now you're comparing me to a rapist? I find that extremely offensive and inappropriate.

No one needs to be given the right to treat someone a certain way, they inherently have that right. If you put on a crude act (be it dress or behavior), male or female you can expect to be treated crudely.


It's not an excuse... it's reality.

Hey ladies, sorry to invade your space, but I do have a legitimate question for you. I love climbing with girls. I enjoy their skills and the way they climb. Yes I do enjoy "watching" the female body climb but I don't feel like it is a "sexual" thing. I'm not looking for a date or anything but climbing partners. Honestly, but how do I convince women to climb with me without seeming like a pervert? Or worse am I really a perv and don't know it? You would think at 45 yrs old I'd have things like this figured out!!! LOL Thanks for your time

no, i'm not comparing you to a rapist, i'm just throwing out another instance where woman have been given the "I told you so, it's your fault excuse",when they have been victimized.

so now women in in low cut, revealing dress attire is crude and therefore, you have the right to treat her differently.

well, i hold mself and others in my life to a different standard, than what you may believe society allows.

I personally am offended by one thing. I am a carpenter and I dress like a carpenter. I demand not to be treated as less than anyone in any suit!! And when I go to the bank to talk to my banker, I still dress like a carpenter and at the end we shake each others hands.

OK, I misunderstood you. I'm sorry.


It's all about context. In a workplace environment, it's a little crude. In a social environment such as a party, a bar or a beach it's perfectly acceptable.


Look Marge, this isn't complicated. IF you go out of your way to attract attention, you attract attention. Men could do well and be more subtle about it, but even if it seems like they're not looking, they're looking! Men are men, hot guys will look at you, but so will the ugly, fat dirty-old-men. It's an unrealistic expectation to dress in a loud fashion and expect people not to give you the once-over.l

Pervs AND Pigs are revealing their true character just by simply posting or defending the notion that women exist simply to be looked at and judged as ugly or attractive by men.

Seriously, you come into the ladies room to lecture them on what a pervert is?

Methinks thou doth protest too much.

i agree that by dressing in a provocative way brings attention. It's how we as individuals react. The once over is fine, i'm all about looking. But, we should hold people to a higher standard in how we act. Do we look or do we say something rude? My point is that it doesn't matter how we dress, there should still be respect and some sign of maturity.

"It's never appropriate to treat someone as a lesser being and most people don't. "

Are you KIDDING? ..........

As for the idea that women should expect to be treated badly because of their clothing

You said "A woman (or man, for that matter) should expect to be treated differently depending on what she (or he) wears."

That, I think, is a very strange belief. That you continue to insist that a person's behavior would/should or even could be caused by another human beings appearance is a pretty good example of someone not taking self-responsibility.

IMO, what matters is how men "check out" women. It's about being discrete and respectful. Just ogling is rude and (understandably) offensive. What goes on in your head is your business, but how you behave to the world is not just your business.

In a job interview scenario, as with any situation, the interviewer should take responsibility for THEIR end of it, and the interviewee takes responsibility for THEIR end of it.

So, in your opinion, would it be a smart move to show up to a job interview in ripped jeans, a faded "Metallica" t-shirt, and Birkenstocks, three days removed from your last shower?

That, I think, is a very strange belief. That you continue to insist that a person's behavior would/should or even could be caused by another human beings appearance is a pretty good example of someone not taking self-responsibility. Nobody CAUSES us to act in any way. We CHOOSE to act in whatever fashion we act in.

..which is why it's essential to do some research about the company you're applying for. If it's corporate, your best bet in terms of acing the interview is wearing a button-down shirt, and some nice slacks.

Reno.....WTF? I can see how someone has said this has become Jerry Springer. I never should have entertained your attempt at distraction in the first place. My error. (BTW, notice that I am taking responsibility for my end of things, rather than blaming you for "making me" react?)

This interview crap, as you said - has nothing to do with the original thread. Is it an an example of what people refer to as "straw man" when they have political debate?

That you continue to insist that a person's behavior would/should or even could be caused by another human beings appearance is a pretty good example of someone not taking self-responsibility.

So.....get a grip. A pig is a pig is a pig. The women hera are saying "NO." A response other than "Okay, thank you for clarifying." is disgusting.

Fair enough. I don't totally agree with all your points, but that doesn't matter, I suppose.

...bottom line- if you are being creepy, and by creepy i mean reducing a woman to "i'd tap that," in your head, then she's gonna be able to tell...

THAT SAID: I do not support, approve, or advocate the leering, sexualization, or objectification of ANYONE based on appearance.

Oh all right--I'm sorry already.

Curt

so, i am getting into this way late, and i just want to know two things?
what did caughtinside's post that got deleted say, and who is the pretty prude slablizard is referring to?
and no matter the sex, male or female, it is fun to watch someone who knows how to climb do what they do well.

prude:
a woman who shows or affects extreme modesty
-webster's dictionary


sorry, slablizard, the definition doesn't fit. you'll have to redefine me.
:)

Aside: Judging by the text someone writes is like judging by appearance, just a different medium. And I'm judging that several people here are sloppy readers.

what the heck is wrong here? I do post in other forums too, mostly in european / italian sites, and no one gets ticked off like here (in US) to "perceived" dissrespect calling someone a "perv" or a "pig" or else.

why you get so defensive when talking about sexual behaviour?

Aaahhhh nice... so very true

i'm sure i'm way to late for this discussion. and i probably shouldn't be in the ladies room... but i'm a single 20 year that doesn't understand girls... what can i say?
anyways this brings something i heard a while back and highly agree with forcefully to mind.
keep in mind that just because it is a comedian saying it does not mean that it should be taken any less seriously:

“A girl walks by and she looks good. Not good in that classical way, I mean like she’s got half her ass hanging out of her skirt, she’s got her titties all mashed together popping out of the top of her turtleneck and shit. And you with your buddies and u say something that may not come out right like; “damn look at them titties!” And the girl says wait, wait a minute. Just because I’m dressed this way does not make me a whore. Which is true, gentlemen that is true. Just because they dress a certain way doesn’t mean they are a certain way, don’t ever forget it. But ladies you must understand that that is fucking confusing. It just is. Now that would be like me, Dave Chapelle, the comedian walking down the streets in a cop uniform. Somebody might run up on me: “aahhhh! Officer help us, come on they’re over here, help us!” and I would be like “ohhh, just because I am dressed this way, does not make me a police officer!” So I have to say; “lady, you are not a whore, but you are wearing a whores uniform, I’ll tell you that right now.”
-Dave Chapelle

if i'm completely off base, feel free to let me know. i respond well to angry remarks.

I have no issues with women that choose to wear revealing clothing. On the contrary, I salute them. But make no mistake, they do so because they want to be noticed. I challenge anyone to convince me otherwise. They're not necessarily whores (although statistically, I'm sure some are), but they all want to be noticed and have people look at them. So I do. I feel its my duty. My duty as a man and my duty as a person that isn't being led around by a seeing eye dog. Call it staring or oggling if you will, I don't really care. But to avert my eyes would completely discount the effort those ladies went through to put together an outfit that screams: "HEY, CHECK OUT MY TITS!!! AREN'T THEY FANTASTIC?!?!" So I look so as to not hurt their feelings. I'm sensitive that way.

wjca, i agree with you, its an attention thing, much like speedos.

I should be able to wear spaghetti strap tank tops in hot weather without men staring.