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jimo
Sep 11, 2007, 1:53 PM
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As I try to become more efficient placing gear, I'm wondering if my racking techniques need some attention. Typically, I rack lg nuts (8-13) and sm nuts (4-8, doubled) on seperate biners; 1, 2, 3 cams on seperate biners; .5, .75 on a single biner; small cams together on a single biner(3 sizes). My slings, about 12 24" are doubled or trippled with two biners on each (trad runners). 2 48" runners and 2 cordoletts wrapped up on a biner. I don't carry the tricams much but they share a biner.
Any thoughts on reducing the bulk? I carry the gear on my harness, slings clipped to a runner over the shoulder.I'd thought of reconfiguring the slings and biners.
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vegastradguy
Sep 11, 2007, 2:07 PM
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i carry my gear as follows:
right front loop: large stoppers, 6 trad draws (racked in pairs).
right middle loop: anchor kit (extra draws optional)
right back loop: atc/nut tool
optional: i may also rack a second set of stoppers on this side.
left front loop: medium stoppers, small stoppers, 6 trad draws (racked in pairs)
left middle loop: water bottle (extra draws optional)
left back loop: spare carabiners
gear sling (over the shoulder):
cams, in order from smallest to largest, each on their own carabiner. smallest start on my chest up high, largest end up on my side down low. i usually carry anywhere between a single and double set of cams this way- it doesnt really matter, as the racking system works no matter how much gear i have on.
other notes:
i only carry one size of stopper per biner. if i'm carrying multiple sizes of a stopper, i carry them on separate biners and usually rack them on opposite sides. this allows me to get at that size no matter which hand is free. it also makes sure that if i drop one carabiner with stoppers, i still have some in that size.
i also dont subscribe to carrying multiple cams on one carabiner. i personally think that this is a good way to drop $200 worth of gear. it makes sense for stoppers, but the bulk and cluster of multiple cams makes it seem like a loss rather than a gain. another couple of ounces wont kill you.
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dingus
Sep 11, 2007, 2:30 PM
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I use a gear sling. It holds the pro, largest in the back. I don't rack multiple cams on a single biner, I don't like that practice. I don't like the risk of dropping the whole package and don't like the hasske of decoupling the cams. Every cam has a biner.
I rack for the route and try not to take gear I won't need. I try to avoid taking 20 cams up a 100 foot route, for example. I see no value to toting a #4 camelot up a finger crack.
Draws and slings on the harness. Very few over-the-shoulder (almost never, in my case, unless cleaning the previous pitch dictates an over-the-shoulder rerack).
Pretty much most of the detail about my racking method is predicated on fast belay change overs for multipitch. Harness racking gear takes way too long, imo.
Cheers
DMT
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jimo
Sep 11, 2007, 3:35 PM
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I was racking my cams all on seperate biners until recently, and yes dingus it does make me nervous about dropping multiple cams with one mis move. The gear rack with loops seems to be the solution to some of my organization issues, gonna pick one up right away. I've left gear behind and found it needed on the 2nd / 3rd pitch, I don't do that any more unless I am well versed in a particular climb.
VTG, thanks for the loop by loop break down, there's a leader who's got it dialed. I'll try a new approach when I rack up next weekend in the Gunks. Thanks!
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tichy
Sep 11, 2007, 3:55 PM
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If I rack up for longer route, I tend to keep nuts in two biners, 1-5 and 6-11. they go to the front loop of my harness along with tricams 0.5, 1.0, 1.5 and 2.0, each in separate biner. left side front loop has tricams 0.5, 1.0, 1.5 and 2.5 and one #1.0 3CU.
I have 5 trad draws and 5 quickdraws, all located on the back loops. right back loop also houses flexicams 2x #2, 2x #3 and #4 as/if needed, usually on their own biners. I do not carry all of them unless route calls so.
If cams come along, I move draws to shoulder sling and they hang on left side and left back loop will be reserved for anchor gear, eg. braided long slings and locking biners. Rest of essentials, knife on a biner and two to four prusiks are in two locking rings (usually I carry four prusiks).
Exceptions come into a picture if line does limit access to either side but I usually try to keep tricams within reach on both sides for quick access. If route is positive slab, I try to limit the use of shoulder sling.
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angry
Sep 11, 2007, 4:06 PM
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Jimo, don't think too hard about it. If you get a system "dialed" your system will hold you back. Learn to rack any way. Learn to climb on anyone's rack. Learn to climb with a sling. Learn to climb without a sling. Learn to lead at your level without reracking. Learn to fire a piece from a non-stance with a cluster fuck between your legs. Learn to reach backwards and grab the right piece blind.
Most leaders try the looped gear sling once, then it sits in a box for the rest of it's life. A plain ol' gear sling or a 1" double length runner will give you far more versatility.
Generally slings and draws on the harness, cams over the shoulder. Any analysis beyond this is bound to fuck you.
Experiment, do things differently, and remember the rock dictates what works, you (me or anyone on the internet) don't.
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shrug7
Sep 11, 2007, 4:26 PM
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I'm new to the world of trad, but this is what I have found works best for me.
Every cam on it's own 'biner. (the last thing I want is to be fiddling with cams connected to each other when i'm trying to get one in quickly. )
I split my stoppers between two wire ovals smaller on one and bigger on the other. ( I am thinking about getting doubles of 7,8,9 so I'll have 3-9 on one and 7-13 on the othe (sorry random side thoughts))
Front gear loops -
Met #4 and BD .5 .75 1 and 3 on each side. (doubles)
my single cams I try to think ahead as to what side would work best.
draws, cord, and other stuff on the rear gear loops.
I have 5 short draws, 5 24" and 2 48" draws try to keep
the 3/2/1 on each side.
Why carry two cordoletts? carry one 20' that should take down some of the bulk.
I think I have a fear about climbing with anything around my shoulder and neck...just sounds like if something got caught it would be "bad".
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winglessangel
Sep 11, 2007, 5:04 PM
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I only have one set of C4 and one set of wallnuts so it may makes things easier.
I carry each cam with its matching color neutrino. I carry the smaller nuts (1-6) with one biner and the rest (7-11) with another.
The matching color is not just pretty it actually makes a lot easier to find what I want. I look straight to the biners, not to them cam and then to the biner.
The colors only repeat when the cams are very much different in size. (like .3 and 3)
If I'm climbing a dihedral or opposing crack I put everything on the same side.
I don't have a sling; I like to climb with a backpack to carry water, food and a wind stopper just in case. The pack I use has a gear loop that goes perfectly around my ribs.
(This post was edited by winglessangel on Sep 11, 2007, 5:06 PM)
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Jbitz
Sep 11, 2007, 5:11 PM
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I follow the same methodology as dingus.
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jimo
Sep 11, 2007, 5:18 PM
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Seems like each time I go out on the sharp end I rack differently, sometimes the route dictates how I rack, sometimes when I'm climbing with a crusty old climber I take a hint from how they rack. I'm taking all of this in to come up with my own system so I can reach blindly for the peice that's gonna save my ass, pretty much the point of carrying gear, right? I've always had a 1" webbing sling as my "gear sling" works well for bail webbing or to fortify some of the scary rap stations, but is not very comfortable and all of the crap seems to swing around to the front just when I'm taking that sketchy high step. I suppose I'd sacrifice the little insurance the webbing offers for a Metulious gear sling, it may reduce the sketchy nature of swinging gear.
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angry
Sep 11, 2007, 5:32 PM
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There's nothing wrong with a gear sling like this
You can still move it behind you and swing it and easily switch sides with it
But this
Pretty much designed to look cool in the store and sell, never to be used again. I've met one climber in my life who's got one of these that used it more than once. Speaks volumes.
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wings
Sep 11, 2007, 5:34 PM
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Everyone has their own reasons for racking up the way they do.
For me, I tend to lead all pitches (my wife does not lead trad), and I specifically bought a harness with 6 gear loops (Misty Mountain Cadillac) so that I wouldn't have to use a gear sling (and in any case the benefit of quicker changeovers does not apply in my case). I also prefer placing nuts with my right hand, so all my nuts are on the right side. So bearing that in mind ...
Front right
WC Helium w/ WC Ultralight Rocks 1-6
WC Helium w/ DMM Wallnuts 6-11
Trango Superfly w/ BD C3 1
Trango Superfly w/ BD C3 2
Trango Superfly w/ BD C4 .4
Trango Superfly w/ BD C4 .5
Trango Superfly w/ BD C4 .75
Back right
4 alpine draws (WC Helium, DMM Phantom, Mammut 8mm 60cm sling)
1 screamer draw (WC Helium, DMM Phantom, Yates Screamer)
Bottom right
Purcell prussik (connected to front)
Belay device (BD Vaporlock, Petzl Reversino)
Equalette (7mm static cord, 2 Trango Superfly Screwlocks, 3 WC Heliums)
Front left
Trango Superfly w/ BD 1
Trango Superfly w/ DMM 4CU 2.5
Trango Superfly w/ DMM 4CU 3.0
Trango Superfly w/ DMM 4CU 3.5
Trango Superfly w/ DMM 4CU 4.0
Back left
4 alpine draws (WC Helium, DMM Phantom, Mammut 8mm 60cm sling)
1 screamer draw (WC Helium, DMM Phantom, Yates Screamer)
Bottom left
Camera (LowePro Z10, Canon A70, Omega Pacific Doval)
Rappel backup (BD Positron Screwgate, 6mm static cord, leather gloves)
Nut tool (Metolius Freenut)
The whole setup (including harness) weighs a bit under 10 pounds.
- Seyil
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kane_schutzman
Sep 11, 2007, 6:50 PM
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When leading I rack on my harness loops. No general order, but I do put cams I think I ll use up front. In addition to shit the best way to sling them is to keep your 2 foot sings accross your chest, with only one beaner on each, then keep the other beaner on your cam. That way your not fiddling with using the slings(if they are shortened). At first I shortened my slings and had them on my harness, but that sucked.
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kane_schutzman
Sep 11, 2007, 6:51 PM
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Also, when folling, if switching leads I ll rack right to my loops. If the other guy is going to lead again, then just rack them all to one sling accross your shoulder..
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wings
Sep 11, 2007, 6:56 PM
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kane_schutzman wrote: In addition to shit the best way to sling them is to keep your 2 foot sings accross your chest, with only one beaner on each, then keep the other beaner on your cam. That way your not fiddling with using the slings(if they are shortened). At first I shortened my slings and had them on my harness, but that sucked.
To each their own. I do not like putting any slings this way as I find them awkward to remove. I would rather fiddle with an alpine draw than have to pass a sling over my helmet and possibly an arm which cannot let go. Plus, I often lead with a pack, which eliminates this option entirely.
- Seyil
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coastal_climber
Sep 11, 2007, 6:58 PM
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One gear sling with 5 gear loops. 5 smallest nuts on one biner, the rest on to others. Micro cams 3 on one biner. All other cams, chocks, Tricams on seperate biners. Small to big starting at the front.
>Cam
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jimo
Sep 11, 2007, 7:15 PM
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2 cordoletts are somewhat necessary, unless you are climbing single pitch. I only really carry two up to the first belay, then my second carries it, know what I mean? OK so loops on the sling are out, I'll stick to my 1" webbing for now, my kid can get me that for xmas.
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dingus
Sep 11, 2007, 7:16 PM
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jimo wrote: The gear rack with loops seems to be the solution to some of my organization issues, gonna pick one up right away.
I HATE those things. You can't slide gear around... they basically took away the one thing that makes over the shoulder racking FAST.
DMT
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dingus
Sep 11, 2007, 7:18 PM
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angry wrote: Jimo, don't think too hard about it. If you get a system "dialed" your system will hold you back. Learn to rack any way. Learn to climb on anyone's rack. Learn to climb with a sling. Learn to climb without a sling. Learn to lead at your level without reracking. Learn to fire a piece from a non-stance with a cluster fuck between your legs. Learn to reach backwards and grab the right piece blind. Most leaders try the looped gear sling once, then it sits in a box for the rest of it's life. A plain ol' gear sling or a 1" double length runner will give you far more versatility. Generally slings and draws on the harness, cams over the shoulder. Any analysis beyond this is bound to fuck you. Experiment, do things differently, and remember the rock dictates what works, you (me or anyone on the internet) don't.
Dude I love you (not in a homo way mind you).
You give excellent advice and its very concise.
DMT
ps Is that AngryManLove? God I hope not!
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ckirkwood9
Sep 11, 2007, 7:40 PM
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loads of posts on this topic (i actually created one i think a year or 2 ago)
my method:
left side first loop: (all bigger gear)
* first 8 camalots (.4-3.5 i think) racked on RED Madrock wiregates that i got for a great deal
left side 2nd loop:
* the auto locker attached to my PAS routed UNDER the camalots
* 6 trad draws made of a combination of Madock wireages and/or bd neutrino/camp nanos +
mammut dynema 24" slings
right side first loop: (all smaller gear:)
* metolius ultralights in size 00, 0, 1 all racked on ONE silver madrock wiregate biner,
* first 9 Aliens - black through gray (i think) (and YES aliens, i still climb on mine) all racked individually on silver madrock wiregates
* set of BD stoppers divided up between 2 oval standard biners.
right side 2nd loop:
* 6/8 trad draws made up of 36/48" mammut dynema slings and madrock wiregates/camp nanos/bd neutrinos/bd lockers
rear haul loop:
* chalk bag
* nut tool on a madrock wiregate
WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THIS SETUP. When racking i can instantly identify what side the gear should go on due to the color of the biner (OR by the type/size of gear)
oh and all gear is marked with a tiny dot of orangey nail polish.
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epoch
Moderator
Sep 11, 2007, 7:42 PM
Post #24 of 57
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This:
looked pretty on the gear rack. I bought one. I seldom use it as intended. I rack on my harness most of the time, else the gear gets stored on the devided sling for quick retrieval.
I guess that a useful answer is:
It depends
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shimanilami
Sep 11, 2007, 7:48 PM
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I do what Dingus does, except ...
dingus wrote: Harness racking gear takes way too long, imo.
If I know I'm going to need ~8 pieces or less, then I just rack those on my harness and let the follower carry the gear sling. Then he can re-rack as he cleans and there's no need to hand off any gear at the belay.
Also, I used a BD Zodiac gear sling a couple of weekends ago and it was sweet. It's overkill for most climbs but if your carrying a huge rack, then it's a good way to go.
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