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trevor
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Apr 24, 2001, 10:30 PM
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Here is a question many people have asked me and I thought I would let all of you explain this. I am sure you\'ll do a better job than I can.
What or who determines when you increase the highest possible ranking in freeclimbing? In other words, when can a climb be rated above 5.14d...5.15a
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ozclimber
May 10, 2001, 9:22 AM
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As a climber from a differant country(australia) we may do things slightly different but i know here in oz our top grade is around 33. This is not the hardest a climb can be but the hardest that has currantly been done. As people climb harder the grades will rise. Our grading system is totally open ended meaning that in 10 years people could be climbing 40\'s. To open a new grade you must have first had alot of experince on hard routes and second get alot of other hard climbers to confirm your grade. Generally if somebody thought they had climbed a 34 they would still grade it 33 and wait for others to say it sould be up graded. Down here nobody wants to be the smart arse that opens a new grade for fear of having it down graded and looking stupid.
Trevor Allred wrote:
>Here is a question many people have asked me and I thought I would let all of you explain this. I am sure you\'ll do a better job than I can.
>
>What or who determines when you increase the highest possible ranking in freeclimbing? In other words, when can a climb be rated above 5.14d...5.15a
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fiend
May 29, 2001, 5:59 PM
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There is a whole big controversie surroundigng 'the 9th Grade' right now. [9a=5.14d, 9a+=5.15a, 9b=5.15b]
Akira, sent by Fred Rouhling had a proposed grade of 9b. Well, everyone thought this to be absurd so Fred Rouhling now gets almost no credit for his two 9a first ascents. When lists of the hardest climbs in the world are compiled his 9a's are generally not included. This is one of the reasons people will be hesitant about grading climbs higher than 5.14d. Sharma is a good example of this, not giving grades for his hardest problems. If the description of Akira is accurate then I believe it is 5.15b but then again, what the hell do I know?
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richo
Jun 13, 2001, 10:14 AM
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oz, do you know why the aussie system is different from us and others, it seems pretty stupid to me to have a seeminly universal system yet different countries have different systems. If you ask me, UIAA ratings should be internationally recognisable
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fiend
Jun 13, 2001, 10:41 PM
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I kind of like the french system as it applies to both routes and boulders, it is also widely recognized
-mark
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learnintoclimb
Jul 7, 2001, 4:46 AM
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The problem with the french grade comparing routes and boulders with the same grading system is you can't compare routes and boulders with the same grade. People have gotten close but you can't they are entirely different.
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wandt
Jul 7, 2001, 9:03 AM
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Actually, the French system is two different systems that use the same letters. It's actually the "French grade" for climbing and the "Font (fontainebleau) grade" for bouldering. For example, my conversion guide (in this Squamish guide book) tells me that 5.14+ YDS=8c+ French. But V12=5.14+=8a. Very confusing. Really only the French and the European magazines use the French Grade (everyone else over there uses UIAA), but all of Europe uses the Font grade.
The Font grade is interesting in that it factors in the height of the boulder, the landing, how scary it is, etc. as well as the physical difficulty. The V grades only showthe physical difficulty. I don;t know the criterea for the French grade.
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learnintoclimb
Jul 23, 2001, 8:00 PM
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With the Font grade I would think that it would be pretty cool if the V scale considered those factors like how scary it is, but on rating a boulder problem everyone's got different oppinions on it like how scary it is.
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climb512
Jul 23, 2001, 10:33 PM
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one grading system would be nice. as usual anything the french try ends up rather suspect
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ericontherocks
Jul 28, 2001, 4:25 PM
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at one time our scale seemed to be closed ended there was nothing beyond 5.9 because a 5.10 would be a 5.1 if you got rid of the zero at the end so for years there were a lot of tough 9's out there still in some spots climbing a 8 or 9 is like a 11
now that we have gone and broken into 10's up to 14's we are open ended and when someone climbs what is harder then a 14d there will be 15's
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congo
Aug 12, 2001, 2:10 PM
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hehe, i agree with 512..
..damn french, they wanna do everything different.
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howieehrlich
Nov 13, 2001, 3:51 AM
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Just a thought about the two so called "5.15"'s prior to Realization. Akira is in a bat filled cave and all the holds are drilled for the maker's (cant remember name) +7 inch ape index. and the other "5.15" in spain (forget name again) has a bolted on hold, it used to have four, but three were taken off. So therefore, Sharma's Realization is the first natural route of 5.15 stature. For sustained hard climbing and an estimated V12/13 crux after 70 feet of 5.14c climbing.
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puffpuffpass
Dec 25, 2001, 11:04 PM
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the thing you got to remember is just do it, before anyone had sent that strait through the higest rateing was 5.14c and just do it was one of the first confirmed 14d. climbers will always keep raising the bar and pushing them selves to achieve higher and higher goals. and akira like howee and joeblo said its manufactured and im not sure but i dont think there is any record of it seeing any other accents do to that.
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stickit
Jan 28, 2002, 4:14 AM
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Somehow cool things always manage to get wrapped up in a bureaucracy. I guess that because I haven't got the skill to get up a 5.14 I'm not too worried about rating 5.15's. A lot of the higher graded routes are the domain of the pros and therefore the gradings are contested and suspect amongst themselves. I'm not saying that there should or should not be a 5.15 rating. I just think that the majority of climbers are not at this level. And really, if we are not involved with an issue, we should stay clear.
[ This Message was edited by: stickit on 2002-01-27 20:15 ]
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fiend
Jan 28, 2002, 4:42 AM
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I'm not sure how accurate this is but I heard that Akira was not actually chipped although it shares moves with the climb next to it which was chipped previously. Thin line I know but still...
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beyond_gravity
Jan 28, 2002, 5:33 AM
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5.15a is easy, i flashed it. all this hype is totally shit. It's just an advertising thing. Now, climbing is turning into a pitiful, media covered sport like Chess of Bolling.
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jt512
Mar 2, 2002, 4:32 AM
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While I am sure that absolutely nobody except me cares about this, I have got to get this off my chest: Trevor, you have a great website, but, please, you must learn the difference between a rating and a ranking.
Ok, I feel a little better already.
5.15a is a rating, not a ranking. Likewise, the votes, and their averages, on the photos are ratings, not rankings. Rankings are ordinal: 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc. Ratings are not. Thus, climbs are rated from 5.0 to 5.whatever, not ranked. The photos are rated from 0 to 10, not ranked. If you gave us 10 pictures and asked us to put them in order from the one we liked the least to the one we liked the best, then we would be ranking them, but we're not. We're rating them on a 0-10 rating scale.
Thank you for your attention.
-Jay
[ This Message was edited by: jt512 on 2002-03-01 20:33 ]
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dontneedfeet
Mar 2, 2002, 6:22 AM
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Last thing I read about Akira - the route wasn't chipped, but some of the holds were glued. Looks like it was from 8a.nu news on 11/30/01.
That said, the info came from the guy who did the only ascent. So who knows...
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smithclimber
Mar 2, 2002, 8:17 AM
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Just for the record, Puffpuffpass, "Just Do It" was not the 1st 5.14d. "Action Direct" was the 1st route proposed the 9a (5.14d) rating. "Just Do It" was originally rated 5.14c. It was the 1st 5.14c in America, but not the world. That being the case, "Just Do It" has pretty much been downgraded to 5.14b. The handfull of climbers who have done both "Just Do It" and America's most famous other 5.14c "Necessary Evil" tend to agree that "Just Do It" is not as hard as "Necessary Evil" thus the reason for "Just Do It"'s downgrading.
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crux_clipper
Mar 2, 2002, 1:24 PM
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I saw all for the oz 'Ewbank System". What could be easier then a 1-33 grading system. the 5.XX system confuses me, but i suppose thats cos i'm an oz and am not used to it.
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caveclimber
Mar 4, 2002, 2:48 PM
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Better question is when is the scale going to stop growing and start shrinking? 10 years ago no one would have every thought it possible to climb the routes today, it all in the genes. A 5.11 climber 10 years ago has a child and teach him everything he knows and gets him climbing a age 9 and by the time he is 16 he can surpass his or her dad with ease. I say the scale should go down what was a 5.10 then is probably a 5.8 now and 5.8 then is a 5.6 just because we know more and we understand more and have more training than our forefathers. When is the scale going to start going backwards or comin into the new climbers scale.
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litedawg
Mar 4, 2002, 3:24 PM
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Here is my question, and please feel free to correct me and educate me where you see the need.
The Yosemite Decimal System actually starts with 1 not 5. a steep, well worn trail is something like a "class 3 or 4", it is not until the terrain reaches a "class 5" difficulty that they started breaking it down, 5.5, 5.10, 5.12a, ad nauseum.
If this is how the system was originally conceived then theoretically there could be a "class 6" terrain out there which would be harder than all "class 5" terrain.
Maybe 5.12 should be the highest class 5 grade and a 5.13a should be renamed 6.1
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camhead
Mar 4, 2002, 5:51 PM
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Hey litedawg,
This may be wrong, but seems as if somewhere I read that 6th class climbing covers aid.
ALL 5th class routes are whatever one can do free, but with a rope for security.
Trivia:
The rating for rapids on rivers in surprisingly similar to the YDS.
It is on a scale of I-V, I being easy, and V being the most difficult imaginable. An unrunnable rapid is VI, but when it is finally run it becomes a V.
Just as with climbing and 5.9s, however, people got better at running rapids, technology got better, and soon (back in the 80s), class V rapids could be almost anything from kind of difficult to WAY TOUGH.
Unlike the YDS, however, they have not really modified the whitewater scale.
Not much to do with climbing, but I thought it interesting.
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toshido
Mar 7, 2002, 7:13 AM
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Okay here some info I am stealign from "A Trailside Series Guide ROCK CLIMBING" By Don Mellor.
Climbing grades
1=Rough hiking
2=Steep scrambling
3=Steep, unroped, hazardous climbing
4=Roped in sections, often moving together over varied terrain. The rope is only employed on the tough parts.
5=The climber has a stationary belayer, and the climb is so hard that protection must be set between the climber and the belayer to reduce the potential fall.
6= Aid climbing
He goes on to further explain the different grades in the 5.XX range.
5.0-5.4 Easy
5.5-5.8 The general intermediate realm. Such routes require rock shoes someone with unusual athletic ability could climb a 5.8 first time out.
5.9-5.10 harder still. Requiring a thourough understanding if technique and good finger stength
5.11a-5.11d Some recreational climbers might be able to tope rope such a route after many tries.
5.12a-5.12d We are getting into the land of the elites (His words )
5.13a-5.13d Climbers here have devoted themselves to training and even the best usually spend many attempts in order to succeed.
5.14 Virtually one can get such a route first try. 5.14s are status routes that see many (often hundreds) of attempts before the very best climbers succeed.
5.15 It's coming....
This book is copyrighted in 1997. Really helps show how quickly the climb rates are going up.
What kinda confuses me is why they cap the letters at "d".
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apollodorus
Mar 7, 2002, 8:44 AM
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5.15a is whatever I can get up these days. Most of my climbs get downgraded.
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kennoyce
May 7, 2002, 5:01 AM
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they didn't start by caping the letters at d. it began with no letters then evolved into using a + or - to denote an easier or harder route with the same grade. people then just started using the four letters a-d for the same purpose as the +or - so the reason it stoped at d is because that is whatever the first people to use letters with the yds decided to do.
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jt512
May 7, 2002, 4:56 PM
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Huh?
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maddie
May 9, 2002, 10:33 AM
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I determine if it should be a higher grade... because i'm really Chis Sharma!
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crux_clipper
May 27, 2002, 7:55 AM
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A month or two ago, Nathan Hoette put up a long project he calls Spartacus. Having climbed asomething like 10 31's and 9 32's (don't quote me on those figures), he redpointed spartacus, saying it was at least 2 grades harder then anything he has ever climbed before. So in the vicinty of grades 31-32, 5.14c-5.15a.
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coclimber26
Sep 29, 2002, 7:40 PM
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It's all over my head, i would rate a 5.11 a 5.15a
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petsfed
Sep 29, 2002, 8:44 PM
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It may be different in Yosemite (where a class 3 is a class 4 for the rest of the world) but I'd always been told that class 1 is practically paved, class 2 is easy off-trail walking, class 3 is light scrambling, class 4 is roping up for exposure, class 5 is free climbing, and class 6 is aid climbing. With the advent of super climbers like Caldwell, Rands, Sharma, Graham, and Rodden (the big names I'm familiar with) the world of hard aid is moving to still harder aid while that which is normally aided is freed. In boulder canyon there is a roof on the south (?) side of castle rock that goes from A2 to A4 (once more I think) but goes at 5.14a free. I'm patiently awaiting someone to free the one A0 move on "Sea of Joy" 5.13 A0 on the seal. If it wasn't practically in BFE, it'd be the route du jour of the locals I'm sure.
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earsen
Oct 1, 2002, 6:04 PM
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I would say the only true way to know you're climbing 15a would be to have Dave Graham standing next to you when you finally send your project and hear hime say something along the lines of "that was friggin ridiculous." That would put it at 14d, but when that same person begins to attempt the problem and can't even reach the crux for a year, it's pretty surely a 15a at that point.
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micronut
Oct 1, 2002, 6:31 PM
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I think it all depends on the number of repeats, and how long it took the repeaters to get it. The first accentionist PROPOSES a grade, then it's adjusted by repeat assenders. Look at Dreamtime, the world's first V15. Fred Nicole put it up, and said it felt like the hardest thing he'd ever done, so maybe it's a breakthrough, maybe V15.
The Bernd Zangrel repeated it after logging like 10,000 miles in his car to be with it. It took him a lot of effort. Then it takes DG the better part of a month to get it. Hard climbers and big efforts confirmed it V15, but still repeatable.
I also farvor the Gill B3 rating for anything that has been tried, but hasn't been repeated.
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therealdeal
Oct 31, 2002, 10:24 PM
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Just Do IT is 14B and chipped.
I thought that Fred could never produce a belayer for Akira, or repeat it, and therefore it was widely considered that he didn't do it. However, he is crazy strong.
Interesting how DG can't do Realisation (yet) and he is pretty much hiking every 14+ he comes across in Europe.
Not that it really matters--I couldn't lift my sorry ass off the ground on those climbers' warm ups.
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rocknalaska
Oct 31, 2002, 10:36 PM
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Last I heard, Just Do It was considered soft 14c, but still 14c.
I've not seen Akira, but I remember reading something about Yuji Hirayama going to it with Fred Rouhling and trying it, and Fred Rouhling showing him all of the moves, and Yuji saying it was beyond the hardest thing he'd ever seen.
Maybe I'm just off my rocker?
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ajkclay
Nov 3, 2002, 8:19 AM
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Grade 32 ewbank isn't 5.15a., it's about 5.14a.
If it was 5.15a, then we'd be up to 5.15c in Australia, with Nathan Hoette putting up Spartacus (33/34) Ewbank. We're good, but we're not that good, yet.
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ajkclay
Nov 3, 2002, 8:24 AM
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Do you reckon you could even conceive doing this on a 33 (5.14c)?
http://onsight.com.au/funky_stuff/sequences/garth_grey.htm
[ This Message was edited by: ajkclay on 2002-11-03 00:25 ]
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antagonism
May 15, 2003, 3:03 AM
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In reply to: Just a thought about the two so called "5.15"'s prior to Realization. Akira is in a bat filled cave and all the holds are drilled for the maker's (cant remember name) +7 inch ape index. and the other "5.15" in spain (forget name again) has a bolted on hold, it used to have four, but three were taken off. So therefore, Sharma's Realization is the first natural route of 5.15 stature. For sustained hard climbing and an estimated V12/13 crux after 70 feet of 5.14c climbing.
You should give "masta beta" credit where credit is due. "Masta Beta," one of Climbing Magazine's editorial writers gave this explanation in one issue of Climbing. The words are almost copied exactly. Not to put anybody out, but just thought "masta beta" would enjoy being credited for his remarks on the subject.
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monkeyarm
May 15, 2003, 4:54 AM
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that is a link to another convo about akira including a link to an interview with fred rouhling.
and I haven't found anything to back the claims that there are glued on holds or that it has been put together in an unethical way.
Yes the man does have an ape index of +7, but that still doesn't change the difficulty of the climb.
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collegekid
May 15, 2003, 5:19 AM
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this is exactly why sharma no longer grades routes...it's pointless. Every problem is different for different people.
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xanx
Jun 1, 2003, 9:03 PM
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In reply to: I think it all depends on the number of repeats, and how long it took the repeaters to get it. The first accentionist PROPOSES a grade, then it's adjusted by repeat assenders. Look at Dreamtime, the world's first V15. Fred Nicole put it up, and said it felt like the hardest thing he'd ever done, so maybe it's a breakthrough, maybe V15. The Bernd Zangrel repeated it after logging like 10,000 miles in his car to be with it. It took him a lot of effort. Then it takes DG the better part of a month to get it. Hard climbers and big efforts confirmed it V15, but still repeatable. I also farvor the Gill B3 rating for anything that has been tried, but hasn't been repeated.
i thought dave did dreamtime in like a week or so? sharma in 10 days i heard? am i crazy?
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ptone
Jun 2, 2003, 4:54 AM
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Just a thought-
Caveclimber--It may seem that climbs are easier now than before, but really, it is that climbers are training better, equipment is better etc. For the newbie or those weekend warriors not training and eating etc the low ratings are just as hard.
In fact, alot of 'modern' areas seem to have much softer ratings, and a 5.9 or 5.10 from years back will feel like an 11+ to many, rather than like an 8 as you suggest. There are some good old-school areas that'll suprise large with an old time 5.10 that'll leave one stunned.
Modern techniques and training commitment etc are helping climbers push the envelope like crazy, for sure.
The problem for us mortals is to not undervalue our own accomplishments because of all the hype!
Climb from the heart!
peace
-p
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mangotree
Feb 26, 2004, 5:54 PM
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:evil: don't freak out... french are cool- problem being: noone gets the point
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kalcario
Feb 26, 2004, 6:28 PM
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*For sustained hard climbing and an estimated V12/13 crux after 70 feet of 5.14c climbing.*
Not only are you plagiarizing stuff from the mags that is'nt true, but the Biographie extension crux was given v7 by Sharma, it is much easier than the first few moves off the deck, which are supposedly v11
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coldclimb
Feb 27, 2004, 12:49 AM
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Hmm, this thread is almost three years old. :?
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jt512
Feb 27, 2004, 2:10 AM
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In reply to: Hmm, this thread is almost three years old. :?
And for three years I've had to see the word "ranking" misused to mean "rating." It's like fingernails on a chalkboard to me.
-Jay
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igcuesta
Feb 27, 2004, 2:01 PM
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In reply to: So therefore, Sharma's Realization is the first natural route of 5.15 stature. For sustained hard climbing and an estimated V12/13 crux after 70 feet of 5.14c climbing.
Realization isn't Sharma's, but J.C.Laifaille's route. Lafaille put up the route, sent the first part of it and felt many times at the crux so finally he decided to put up an intermediate abseil and leave the route as two independent pitches.Sharma "only" did the FA of the whole route, joining the two pitches. Then he changed the route name from the original "biographie" to the actual "realization". When asked about it Lafaille said he didn't care, as Biographie was only the first pitch and the whole route hadn't been sent before, so joining the 2 pithes constituted a new route itself.
And the crux is said to be 7cFb (V9 more or less).
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font9a
Jun 7, 2004, 5:52 AM
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in france the the font grades are specifically reserved for bouldering in and around fountainebleau. (although they have, in the last 10 years) migrated to other parts of french sandstone bouldering.
* there are actually two types of font grades: straight-ups and traverses. a traverse generally gets a "lower" font rating because it's more "route-like".
** the french sport climbing grade is similar to the UIAA rating systemme. But it's significant in that England, Germany, and Australia use totally different grades. And the criteria are not so similar (in England, exposure, danger, and difficulty are expressed independently in a tripartate systemme. In Australia it rolled into the grade, like font).
*** Spanish route grades closely resemble French route grades.
**** French bouldering grades (font grades) resemble nothing else in the world. not V grades or P (priest draw) grades or B (1,2,3) grades or anything else.
*v John Sherman (coiner of the american V grade term) explicitly states the subjective nature of the V grade system originating at hueco in the first edition of his guidebook to hueco tanks. in that respect it's like a font grade, but because the two areas are so totally different it's virtually impossible to reconcile "two routes of equal difficulty" between the two areas. Like trying to compare hobbit in a blender (dragon's den) to helicopter (bas cuvier). And it's absurd to try to reconcile "two routes of equal difficulty" almost anywhere in the world.
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climbinjunkie
Aug 18, 2004, 5:00 AM
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Just so you know, Akira was first climbed by Fred Rouhling. He did drill the holds, but he also happens to be 5'9" and has an ape index of +1.5. Funny, that's the same as me, height and ape, but I certainly don't climb the stuff he does, drilled or not. Just thought you'd like to know
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jcshaggy
Aug 19, 2004, 10:13 AM
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People who think Rouhling has a massive ape index are full of sh*t.The guy is an awesome climber.
Do not diss someone when you clearly don't know anything about them.Have you seen pic's of Akira-looks bloody difficult.
Get your facts right-check out the last issue of Climbing magazine for an interview with the man himself.
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climbsomething
Aug 19, 2004, 10:35 AM
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In reply to: Just so you know, Akira was first climbed by Fred Rouhling. He did drill the holds, but he also happens to be 5'9" and has an ape index of +1.5. Funny, that's the same as me, height and ape, but I certainly don't climb the stuff he does, drilled or not. Just thought you'd like to know |
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davep
Aug 19, 2004, 1:34 PM
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In reply to: Just so you know, Akira was first climbed by Fred Rouhling. He did drill the holds, but he also happens to be 5'9" and has an ape index of +1.5. Funny, that's the same as me, height and ape, but I certainly don't climb the stuff he does, drilled or not. Just thought you'd like to know
akira isn't chipped:
http://climbing.com/...rouhling/index3.html
P.S. there is now a 9b+, Chilam Balam by Bernabé Fernández.
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climbinjunkie
Aug 21, 2004, 7:24 PM
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Rouhling said that he chipped Akira. Read the article in Climbing. When asked if Akira was natural he said, "Sure. Naturally drilled."
And as for Bernabe's Chilam Balam, that's pretty much up for debate. He's also known for drilling holds onto his routes, he's never climbed anything hard outside of his own routes, and as soon as he finished the route, he announced his retirement from hard sport climbing. I don't think he has the credentials for a believable claim of .15b
The Hubers both think he's full of crap, and I give them a lot more credit than Fernandez.
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c-money
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Aug 21, 2004, 7:54 PM
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In reply to: Rouhling said that he chipped Akira. Read the article in Climbing. When asked if Akira was natural he said, "Sure. Naturally drilled."
From Climbing:
"He gave Akira 9b (5.15b); that grade would still make it the hardest section of rock climbing ever done by anyone, anywhere. And he claims that none of the holds was manufactured."
maybe you need to read the article in climbing again...
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superfox
Aug 21, 2004, 7:58 PM
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In reply to: Rouhling said that he chipped Akira. Read the article in Climbing. When asked if Akira was natural he said, "Sure. Naturally drilled."
No, he was talking about his 14d, L’autre Côté du Ciel.
In reply to: Rouhling climbed L’autre Côté du Ciel in 1996 and feels that route, at hard 9a, is his second hardest. “Of course it is natural.” The glint in Rouhling’s eye gives away the punch line before he says it. “Naturally drilled.”
When Pete Ward saw one hold that looked chipped, he pointed it out to Rouhling, who then climbed the section, not using that hold. He said that he didn't remember it being there before.
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p_grandbois
Aug 21, 2004, 8:47 PM
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Back to the original Q, it is simple, it is harder! It can be either the hardest route the best climber has climbed or one of the high 14's that have been put up with a Broken hold.
Simple, see
lets just get over it, who cares.
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ron_burgandy
Dec 8, 2004, 1:07 AM
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To be perfectaly honest i am getting tired of all of the fred bashing- he is obviously a ridiculously good climber 9a, 9a+, or 9b it is still really hard. We should just leave it at he has set up some of the hardest routes in the world, proposed a grade for them and some have been confirmed some are still waiting, some are chipped some arent.
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petsfed
Dec 8, 2004, 1:44 AM
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Seriously, when Fred was chipping (on his first two 9a routes) everybody else was too. It was only when he put up Akira and claimed 9b that he got castigated for chipping. Chipping was accepted, climbing harder than everybody else (when you chipped in the past) was not. He was the scapegoat for the entire European climbing community's indiscretions.
Chipped or not, the crux of L'Autre Cote du Ciel looks sick!
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alpinerock
Dec 20, 2004, 2:39 AM
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In reply to: With the Font grade I would think that it would be pretty cool if the V scale considered those factors like how scary it is, but on rating a boulder problem everyone's got different oppinions on it like how scary it is.
everyones got lots of different opinions about every aspect of bouldering, whats your point?
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igcuesta
Jan 3, 2005, 4:05 PM
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In reply to: Rouhling said that he chipped Akira. Read the article in Climbing. When asked if Akira was natural he said, "Sure. Naturally drilled." And as for Bernabe's Chilam Balam, that's pretty much up for debate. He's also known for drilling holds onto his routes, he's never climbed anything hard outside of his own routes, and as soon as he finished the route, he announced his retirement from hard sport climbing. I don't think he has the credentials for a believable claim of .15b The Hubers both think he's full of crap, and I give them a lot more credit than Fernandez.
Akira is worse than chipped. It actually has some original holds filled.
Has the Hubers tried the route? Why do they have more credit talking about a route they don't know? They should have gone better to the route and give it a try. Dani Andrada did it, and so I think he has ENOUGH CREDIT to give an opinion about Chilam Balam. By the way, when he was asked about his opinion on the grade of Chilam Balam he said that HE BELIVES that the route is hardly less than 9b.
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jcshaggy
Jan 17, 2005, 1:45 PM
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I think Fred Rouhling is one cool climber. The whole ape-index thing is usually inaccurate and getting old.
Glad to hear he is climbing while everybody else wastes time talking about him.
I agree that some people should read the Climbing article again.
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frenchguy
Feb 6, 2005, 9:30 PM
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Sorry for that, but I'm oblideg to tell you that "french"grade has been created in the middle of XIX for alpinism. So we were first!! and you speak in feet for cliff's high... remember me: what is the international unit of length? (indication: m). Have a good climb!
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lucas_timmer
Feb 14, 2005, 6:46 PM
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In reply to: hehe, i agree with 512.. ..damn french, they wanna do everything different. |
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iamchristoph
Feb 14, 2005, 8:19 PM
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In reply to: congo wrote: hehe, i agree with 512.. ..damn french, they wanna do everything different. No, those are the English with there Pounds,miles and driving left..
Don't forget the aussies and the japanese with thier driving left too. And us with our miles and pounds.
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r1skate
Jun 7, 2005, 4:40 PM
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Ok let's take the current hardest grade 5.15. The hardest climbrs, Sharma, Graham, others were climbing hadr routes such as 5.14a. Then they got really good at the 5.14 routes and did harder routes and they said ok this is 5.14b because it is harder than the 5.14 route we hve been doing. Them some other climbers get good and come to the 5.14b and they can't quit do it, but they can do the 5.14. So they in effect verify that it is 5.14b because they can't climb it, but are able to climb 5.14, but just barely. Then climbers like Sharma and Graham get even better and climb routes that re harder than the hardest they did previously, so they push they grade up, but not by much. So they rate the new hard route, 5.14c . the other climbers get better and do they 5.14b, and then do the hardest routes, the 5.14c . This goes on until the gradegets to a point where just few climbers in the world, maybe less than a half dozen can do the routes on the leading edge of the difficutly scale. If you watch Autoroute and how Graham sends Dreamtime, you will see some really superb climbing. This problem is rated V15, but he makes it look so easy. So maybe he is able to climber harder than V15. The rating system are not absolutes they are only the best guide out there. I can on sight 5.10b on good day yet other times a 5.9 will give me fits. Then other days I will send 5.12 like nothing. It can be such relative sport.
So cimb on and don't worry about the grade so mush as how fun it is for you. Keep trying to roputes that are hrader than the last one you did. You will improve.
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ingrowing_whale
Jun 9, 2005, 7:00 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: congo wrote: hehe, i agree with 512.. ..damn french, they wanna do everything different. No, those are the English with there Pounds,miles and driving left.. Don't forget the aussies and the japanese with thier driving left too. And us with our miles and pounds.
And don't forget the american with their unique climbing grades :D :D :D !!!
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azrockclimber
Jun 9, 2005, 7:48 PM
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In reply to: I can on sight 5.10b on good day yet other times a 5.9 will give me fits. Then other days I will send 5.12 like nothing. It can be such relative sport. So cimb on and don't worry about the grade so mush as how fun it is for you. Keep trying to roputes that are hrader than the last one you did. You will improve.
hmm...interesting..you can onsight .10b on a good day....sometimes 5.9 kicks your ass....but other days you can send 5.12 with ease...I guess the "5.12's are easy days are really, really, really, good days..
hahahaha. what the F does that mean.
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