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kennoyce
May 7, 2002, 5:01 AM
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they didn't start by caping the letters at d. it began with no letters then evolved into using a + or - to denote an easier or harder route with the same grade. people then just started using the four letters a-d for the same purpose as the +or - so the reason it stoped at d is because that is whatever the first people to use letters with the yds decided to do.
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jt512
May 7, 2002, 4:56 PM
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Huh?
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maddie
May 9, 2002, 10:33 AM
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I determine if it should be a higher grade... because i'm really Chis Sharma!
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crux_clipper
May 27, 2002, 7:55 AM
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A month or two ago, Nathan Hoette put up a long project he calls Spartacus. Having climbed asomething like 10 31's and 9 32's (don't quote me on those figures), he redpointed spartacus, saying it was at least 2 grades harder then anything he has ever climbed before. So in the vicinty of grades 31-32, 5.14c-5.15a.
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coclimber26
Sep 29, 2002, 7:40 PM
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It's all over my head, i would rate a 5.11 a 5.15a
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petsfed
Sep 29, 2002, 8:44 PM
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It may be different in Yosemite (where a class 3 is a class 4 for the rest of the world) but I'd always been told that class 1 is practically paved, class 2 is easy off-trail walking, class 3 is light scrambling, class 4 is roping up for exposure, class 5 is free climbing, and class 6 is aid climbing. With the advent of super climbers like Caldwell, Rands, Sharma, Graham, and Rodden (the big names I'm familiar with) the world of hard aid is moving to still harder aid while that which is normally aided is freed. In boulder canyon there is a roof on the south (?) side of castle rock that goes from A2 to A4 (once more I think) but goes at 5.14a free. I'm patiently awaiting someone to free the one A0 move on "Sea of Joy" 5.13 A0 on the seal. If it wasn't practically in BFE, it'd be the route du jour of the locals I'm sure.
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earsen
Oct 1, 2002, 6:04 PM
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I would say the only true way to know you're climbing 15a would be to have Dave Graham standing next to you when you finally send your project and hear hime say something along the lines of "that was friggin ridiculous." That would put it at 14d, but when that same person begins to attempt the problem and can't even reach the crux for a year, it's pretty surely a 15a at that point.
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micronut
Oct 1, 2002, 6:31 PM
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I think it all depends on the number of repeats, and how long it took the repeaters to get it. The first accentionist PROPOSES a grade, then it's adjusted by repeat assenders. Look at Dreamtime, the world's first V15. Fred Nicole put it up, and said it felt like the hardest thing he'd ever done, so maybe it's a breakthrough, maybe V15.
The Bernd Zangrel repeated it after logging like 10,000 miles in his car to be with it. It took him a lot of effort. Then it takes DG the better part of a month to get it. Hard climbers and big efforts confirmed it V15, but still repeatable.
I also farvor the Gill B3 rating for anything that has been tried, but hasn't been repeated.
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therealdeal
Oct 31, 2002, 10:24 PM
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Just Do IT is 14B and chipped.
I thought that Fred could never produce a belayer for Akira, or repeat it, and therefore it was widely considered that he didn't do it. However, he is crazy strong.
Interesting how DG can't do Realisation (yet) and he is pretty much hiking every 14+ he comes across in Europe.
Not that it really matters--I couldn't lift my sorry ass off the ground on those climbers' warm ups.
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rocknalaska
Oct 31, 2002, 10:36 PM
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Last I heard, Just Do It was considered soft 14c, but still 14c.
I've not seen Akira, but I remember reading something about Yuji Hirayama going to it with Fred Rouhling and trying it, and Fred Rouhling showing him all of the moves, and Yuji saying it was beyond the hardest thing he'd ever seen.
Maybe I'm just off my rocker?
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ajkclay
Nov 3, 2002, 8:19 AM
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Grade 32 ewbank isn't 5.15a., it's about 5.14a.
If it was 5.15a, then we'd be up to 5.15c in Australia, with Nathan Hoette putting up Spartacus (33/34) Ewbank. We're good, but we're not that good, yet.
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ajkclay
Nov 3, 2002, 8:24 AM
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Do you reckon you could even conceive doing this on a 33 (5.14c)?
http://onsight.com.au/funky_stuff/sequences/garth_grey.htm
[ This Message was edited by: ajkclay on 2002-11-03 00:25 ]
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antagonism
May 15, 2003, 3:03 AM
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In reply to: Just a thought about the two so called "5.15"'s prior to Realization. Akira is in a bat filled cave and all the holds are drilled for the maker's (cant remember name) +7 inch ape index. and the other "5.15" in spain (forget name again) has a bolted on hold, it used to have four, but three were taken off. So therefore, Sharma's Realization is the first natural route of 5.15 stature. For sustained hard climbing and an estimated V12/13 crux after 70 feet of 5.14c climbing.
You should give "masta beta" credit where credit is due. "Masta Beta," one of Climbing Magazine's editorial writers gave this explanation in one issue of Climbing. The words are almost copied exactly. Not to put anybody out, but just thought "masta beta" would enjoy being credited for his remarks on the subject.
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monkeyarm
May 15, 2003, 4:54 AM
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that is a link to another convo about akira including a link to an interview with fred rouhling.
and I haven't found anything to back the claims that there are glued on holds or that it has been put together in an unethical way.
Yes the man does have an ape index of +7, but that still doesn't change the difficulty of the climb.
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collegekid
May 15, 2003, 5:19 AM
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this is exactly why sharma no longer grades routes...it's pointless. Every problem is different for different people.
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xanx
Jun 1, 2003, 9:03 PM
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In reply to: I think it all depends on the number of repeats, and how long it took the repeaters to get it. The first accentionist PROPOSES a grade, then it's adjusted by repeat assenders. Look at Dreamtime, the world's first V15. Fred Nicole put it up, and said it felt like the hardest thing he'd ever done, so maybe it's a breakthrough, maybe V15. The Bernd Zangrel repeated it after logging like 10,000 miles in his car to be with it. It took him a lot of effort. Then it takes DG the better part of a month to get it. Hard climbers and big efforts confirmed it V15, but still repeatable. I also farvor the Gill B3 rating for anything that has been tried, but hasn't been repeated.
i thought dave did dreamtime in like a week or so? sharma in 10 days i heard? am i crazy?
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ptone
Jun 2, 2003, 4:54 AM
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Just a thought-
Caveclimber--It may seem that climbs are easier now than before, but really, it is that climbers are training better, equipment is better etc. For the newbie or those weekend warriors not training and eating etc the low ratings are just as hard.
In fact, alot of 'modern' areas seem to have much softer ratings, and a 5.9 or 5.10 from years back will feel like an 11+ to many, rather than like an 8 as you suggest. There are some good old-school areas that'll suprise large with an old time 5.10 that'll leave one stunned.
Modern techniques and training commitment etc are helping climbers push the envelope like crazy, for sure.
The problem for us mortals is to not undervalue our own accomplishments because of all the hype!
Climb from the heart!
peace
-p
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mangotree
Feb 26, 2004, 5:54 PM
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:evil: don't freak out... french are cool- problem being: noone gets the point
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kalcario
Feb 26, 2004, 6:28 PM
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*For sustained hard climbing and an estimated V12/13 crux after 70 feet of 5.14c climbing.*
Not only are you plagiarizing stuff from the mags that is'nt true, but the Biographie extension crux was given v7 by Sharma, it is much easier than the first few moves off the deck, which are supposedly v11
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coldclimb
Feb 27, 2004, 12:49 AM
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Hmm, this thread is almost three years old. :?
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jt512
Feb 27, 2004, 2:10 AM
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In reply to: Hmm, this thread is almost three years old. :?
And for three years I've had to see the word "ranking" misused to mean "rating." It's like fingernails on a chalkboard to me.
-Jay
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igcuesta
Feb 27, 2004, 2:01 PM
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In reply to: So therefore, Sharma's Realization is the first natural route of 5.15 stature. For sustained hard climbing and an estimated V12/13 crux after 70 feet of 5.14c climbing.
Realization isn't Sharma's, but J.C.Laifaille's route. Lafaille put up the route, sent the first part of it and felt many times at the crux so finally he decided to put up an intermediate abseil and leave the route as two independent pitches.Sharma "only" did the FA of the whole route, joining the two pitches. Then he changed the route name from the original "biographie" to the actual "realization". When asked about it Lafaille said he didn't care, as Biographie was only the first pitch and the whole route hadn't been sent before, so joining the 2 pithes constituted a new route itself.
And the crux is said to be 7cFb (V9 more or less).
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font9a
Jun 7, 2004, 5:52 AM
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in france the the font grades are specifically reserved for bouldering in and around fountainebleau. (although they have, in the last 10 years) migrated to other parts of french sandstone bouldering.
* there are actually two types of font grades: straight-ups and traverses. a traverse generally gets a "lower" font rating because it's more "route-like".
** the french sport climbing grade is similar to the UIAA rating systemme. But it's significant in that England, Germany, and Australia use totally different grades. And the criteria are not so similar (in England, exposure, danger, and difficulty are expressed independently in a tripartate systemme. In Australia it rolled into the grade, like font).
*** Spanish route grades closely resemble French route grades.
**** French bouldering grades (font grades) resemble nothing else in the world. not V grades or P (priest draw) grades or B (1,2,3) grades or anything else.
*v John Sherman (coiner of the american V grade term) explicitly states the subjective nature of the V grade system originating at hueco in the first edition of his guidebook to hueco tanks. in that respect it's like a font grade, but because the two areas are so totally different it's virtually impossible to reconcile "two routes of equal difficulty" between the two areas. Like trying to compare hobbit in a blender (dragon's den) to helicopter (bas cuvier). And it's absurd to try to reconcile "two routes of equal difficulty" almost anywhere in the world.
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climbinjunkie
Aug 18, 2004, 5:00 AM
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Just so you know, Akira was first climbed by Fred Rouhling. He did drill the holds, but he also happens to be 5'9" and has an ape index of +1.5. Funny, that's the same as me, height and ape, but I certainly don't climb the stuff he does, drilled or not. Just thought you'd like to know
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jcshaggy
Aug 19, 2004, 10:13 AM
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People who think Rouhling has a massive ape index are full of sh*t.The guy is an awesome climber.
Do not diss someone when you clearly don't know anything about them.Have you seen pic's of Akira-looks bloody difficult.
Get your facts right-check out the last issue of Climbing magazine for an interview with the man himself.
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