|
Scrupuruss
Jul 9, 2008, 5:58 AM
Post #1 of 59
(6851 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 9, 2008
Posts: 13
|
A couple friends of mine and I went to the Pie Slice today, hoping to do some 5.10 climbing by either top rope or bolted lead. It was the first time to the Pie Slice Area for all of us, and we were without a guidebook-- just going on what we could find on the internet.
We could not figure out how to safely attempt any route. The first bolt on the lead route was over 15 feet up, a runout that none of us were prepared to try.
We circled the rock several times and couldn't figure out how to get to the top to build an anchor for top roping.
So my question is: What's up with that? How do people do it?
(Epilogue: We were afraid that our climbing expedition was going to turn into only a hiking expedition, but we ended up finding the Top Rope Wall and doing the easiest route there.)
|
|
|
|
|
shimanilami
Jul 9, 2008, 6:51 AM
Post #2 of 59
(6825 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 24, 2006
Posts: 2043
|
Stick to the gym, noob.
|
|
|
|
|
sungam
Jul 9, 2008, 10:15 AM
Post #3 of 59
(6794 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 24, 2004
Posts: 26804
|
consider bringing a mat next time, or just try the route and you will probobly see that it is easy enough to reach the first bolts, or it's too hard to clip mid-sequence before it (hence the mat).
best of luck!
|
|
|
|
|
joeforte
Jul 9, 2008, 11:05 AM
Post #4 of 59
(6787 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 9, 2005
Posts: 1093
|
If there first bolt is that high, you can bet the beginning sequence is significantly easier than the overall difficulty of the route. This gives you a great opportunity to warm up on the start, and practice downclimbing. Next time up there, try this:
Climb up 5 feet, then downclimb it. This will teach you the first few holds and stances. Repeat for 10 feet (you've boulderered 10 feet before right?). Now that you know where all the holds are for the start, make it a goal to clip the first bolt. Consider it the "top" of the "boulder problem". Have your buddy put you on belay, with enough slack out from the start to clip the first bolt. This way he can spot you as you climb to the first bolt. When you finally reach it, if you are totally pumped you can just clip it and hang, if not, SEND IT!!!!!
On a side note, a high first bolt makes the second bolt much safer in most cases, but beware of high clipping it (clipping it from a stance too low, causing a ton of dangerous slack between you and the ground). Make sure you climb high enough so that the second bolt is within easy reach, and you have a good stance. High clipping is dangerous because if you pull up all that slack to clip a bolt way above your head, and you blow it, you're probably going to deck. This is mostly an issue on the 2nd and 3rd bolts, but any time you high clip you are looking at a much longer fall than if you would have just climbed 2 feet higher to a better stance.
Lastly, some sport/gym weenies would use a "stick clip" to preclip that high first bolt (and sometimes the 2nd, 3rd, ect.). If you do this, you will turn into a weenie yourself. Don't be a weenie. Downclimbing is an important skill to have as a leader... so go get that first clip!
|
|
|
|
|
sungam
Jul 9, 2008, 11:30 AM
Post #5 of 59
(6781 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 24, 2004
Posts: 26804
|
joeforte wrote: Don't be a weenie. Downclimbing is an important skill to have as a leader... so go get that first clip!
|
|
|
|
|
clausti
Jul 9, 2008, 1:53 PM
Post #7 of 59
(6690 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 5, 2004
Posts: 5690
|
Scrupuruss wrote: So my question is: What's up with that? How do people do it?
START HERE: Look at the moves at the bottom. ignore the distance for a moment and see if you can read a clear sequence. If yes, move to 2, if no, move to 6.
2. Does it look too hard to do? If yes, move to 6, if no, move to 3.
3. Does your friend(s) know how to spot properly? can they control a fall from above their heads? If yes, move to 4, if no move to 6.
4. Have your buddy set you up "on belay", with enough slack to clip the first bolt. Start climbing deliberately and in a controlled manner. Do you reach moves that you do not feel confident doing before you are eye level with the bolt? If yes, move to 5, if no, move to 11.
5. Downclimb in a controlled fashion to the ground. Do you still want to do the route? Does the rest of it look cool? If yes, move to 6, if no, move to 10.
6. Find a stick where (Length of stick) + (your height) = Distance to First bolt. Do you have tape? if yes, move to 7, if no move to 10.
7. Tape JUST THE SPINE of the top biner of a quickdraw to the top of the stick LIGHTLY. Just firmly enough to support the weight of the draw + rope. Under no circumstances wrap it more than 1.5 times. Go find a 2" twig. Can you find a 2" twig? if yes, move to 8, if no, move to 10.
8. Prop the gate of the biner open with your twig. Do you know how to not back clip? If yes, go to 9. If no, go to 12.
9. Clip your rope into the draw on the stick like it is on a bolt. Lift it up to the bolt. Clip it through the bolt, pulling down on the ROPE not the STICK. Once it is clipped, pull on the stick. Clean up your damn tape. Go to 11.
10. Go climb a different route.
11. Clip it and climb on. you are, hopefully, on belay for real.
12. Do you know how to set up a top rope anchor and not die? if yes, go to 13. if no, go to 14.
13. Go toproping.
14. Go the fuck home.
Summary- use your best judgment, and clean up your trash. Also, I can't speak for this particular area, but some places are bolted with stick clips in mind.
|
|
|
|
|
markc
Jul 9, 2008, 2:44 PM
Post #8 of 59
(6653 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 21, 2003
Posts: 2481
|
Helpful and damn funny. Well played, madam.
|
|
|
|
|
Scrupuruss
Jul 9, 2008, 7:21 PM
Post #9 of 59
(6537 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 9, 2008
Posts: 13
|
Thanks all. This thread has been helpful and actually sort of encouraging. I hope to try the Pie Slice again some day with the aid of either a crash pad or stick.
|
|
|
|
|
shockabuku
Jul 9, 2008, 7:32 PM
Post #10 of 59
(6527 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 20, 2006
Posts: 4868
|
Bring a ladder; that's why they have ladders on Everest you know.
|
|
|
|
|
sungam
Jul 9, 2008, 7:48 PM
Post #11 of 59
(6510 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 24, 2004
Posts: 26804
|
shockabuku wrote: Bring a ladder; that's why they have ladders on Everest you know.
|
|
|
|
|
zeke_sf
Jul 9, 2008, 7:52 PM
Post #12 of 59
(6506 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 28, 2006
Posts: 18730
|
shockabuku wrote: Bring a ladder; that's why they have ladders on Everest you know.
Don't forget the sherpa.
|
|
|
|
|
sungam
Jul 9, 2008, 8:08 PM
Post #13 of 59
(6492 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 24, 2004
Posts: 26804
|
zeke_sf wrote: shockabuku wrote: Bring a ladder; that's why they have ladders on Everest you know. Don't forget the sherpa.
Don't forget your sense of self importance, and make sure to leave your sense of awareness of others at home, with your conscience.
|
|
|
|
|
zeke_sf
Jul 9, 2008, 8:19 PM
Post #14 of 59
(6483 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 28, 2006
Posts: 18730
|
sungam wrote: zeke_sf wrote: shockabuku wrote: Bring a ladder; that's why they have ladders on Everest you know. Don't forget the sherpa. Ooohh, ooohhhhh! Don't forget your sense of self importance, and make sure to leave your sense of awareness of others at home, with your conscience.
I feel it would be inappropriate to tell the OP to watch out for inexperienced Chinese climbers bum rushing the ladder as soon as it is erected. If I weren't so hindered by my scruples, I would also feel compelled to remind the OP that you need your sherpas to help enforce Russell's executive decision for you to turn around. You have first bolt fever, it's further away than it looks. The ladder's clogged, you don't have enough time. TURN AROUND!
|
|
|
|
|
sungam
Jul 9, 2008, 8:33 PM
Post #15 of 59
(6466 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 24, 2004
Posts: 26804
|
zeke_sf wrote: sungam wrote: zeke_sf wrote: shockabuku wrote: Bring a ladder; that's why they have ladders on Everest you know. Don't forget the sherpa. Ooohh, ooohhhhh! Don't forget your sense of self importance, and make sure to leave your sense of awareness of others at home, with your conscience. I feel it would be inappropriate to tell the OP to watch out for inexperienced Chinese climbers bum rushing the ladder as soon as it is erected. If I weren't so hindered by my scruples, I would also feel compelled to remind the OP that you need your sherpas to help enforce Russell's executive decision for you to turn around. You have first bolt fever, it's further away than it looks. The ladder's clogged, you don't have enough time. TURN AROUND!
I congratulate myself in taking this step in maturity, and give myself the official magnus' gold star award for excellence.
|
|
|
|
|
shockabuku
Jul 9, 2008, 9:38 PM
Post #16 of 59
(6430 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 20, 2006
Posts: 4868
|
sungam wrote: zeke_sf wrote: sungam wrote: zeke_sf wrote: shockabuku wrote: Bring a ladder; that's why they have ladders on Everest you know. Don't forget the sherpa. Ooohh, ooohhhhh! Don't forget your sense of self importance, and make sure to leave your sense of awareness of others at home, with your conscience. I feel it would be inappropriate to tell the OP to watch out for inexperienced Chinese climbers bum rushing the ladder as soon as it is erected. If I weren't so hindered by my scruples, I would also feel compelled to remind the OP that you need your sherpas to help enforce Russell's executive decision for you to turn around. You have first bolt fever, it's further away than it looks. The ladder's clogged, you don't have enough time. TURN AROUND! I will stop now at the risk of taking it too far, which I would have done. I congratulate myself in taking this step in maturity, and give myself the official magnus' gold star award for excellence.
Translated: Magnus is a quitter.
Quitter.
Ha!
|
|
|
|
|
sungam
Jul 9, 2008, 10:01 PM
Post #17 of 59
(6410 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 24, 2004
Posts: 26804
|
shockabuku wrote: sungam wrote: zeke_sf wrote: sungam wrote: zeke_sf wrote: shockabuku wrote: Bring a ladder; that's why they have ladders on Everest you know. Don't forget the sherpa. Ooohh, ooohhhhh! Don't forget your sense of self importance, and make sure to leave your sense of awareness of others at home, with your conscience. I feel it would be inappropriate to tell the OP to watch out for inexperienced Chinese climbers bum rushing the ladder as soon as it is erected. If I weren't so hindered by my scruples, I would also feel compelled to remind the OP that you need your sherpas to help enforce Russell's executive decision for you to turn around. You have first bolt fever, it's further away than it looks. The ladder's clogged, you don't have enough time. TURN AROUND! I will stop now at the risk of taking it too far, which I would have done. I congratulate myself in taking this step in maturity, and give myself the official magnus' gold star award for excellence. Translated: Magnus is a quitter. Quitter. Ha!
I'll do it, but just cuz you made me.
This is your fault, shukabokghey.
Don't forget your t.v. crew so you can shoot footage of dying climbers on your way up, but luckily you left your conscience at home, so you can doso without care or guilt.
But obviously all that matters is your summit bid, cuz that's your money bought claim to fame!
|
|
|
|
|
shockabuku
Jul 9, 2008, 10:06 PM
Post #18 of 59
(6405 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 20, 2006
Posts: 4868
|
sungam wrote: shockabuku wrote: sungam wrote: zeke_sf wrote: sungam wrote: zeke_sf wrote: shockabuku wrote: Bring a ladder; that's why they have ladders on Everest you know. Don't forget the sherpa. Ooohh, ooohhhhh! Don't forget your sense of self importance, and make sure to leave your sense of awareness of others at home, with your conscience. I feel it would be inappropriate to tell the OP to watch out for inexperienced Chinese climbers bum rushing the ladder as soon as it is erected. If I weren't so hindered by my scruples, I would also feel compelled to remind the OP that you need your sherpas to help enforce Russell's executive decision for you to turn around. You have first bolt fever, it's further away than it looks. The ladder's clogged, you don't have enough time. TURN AROUND! I will stop now at the risk of taking it too far, which I would have done. I congratulate myself in taking this step in maturity, and give myself the official magnus' gold star award for excellence. Translated: Magnus is a quitter. Quitter. Ha! Fine. I'll do it, but just cuz you made me. This is your fault, shukabokghey. Don't forget your t.v. crew so you can shoot footage of dying climbers on your way up, but luckily you left your conscience at home, so you can doso without care or guilt. But obviously all that matters is your summit bid, cuz that's your money bought claim to fame!
That was really juvenile.
|
|
|
|
|
joeforte
Jul 10, 2008, 3:51 AM
Post #19 of 59
(6360 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 9, 2005
Posts: 1093
|
camhead wrote: joeforte wrote: If there first bolt is that high, you can bet the beginning sequence is significantly easier than the overall difficulty of the route. hahahahahahahahaha! yore rong. There are quite a few routes out there that are bolted with the intention of using a stick clip. They have high first bolts, and may often have the crux right off the ground! This is more common in harder grades, but I can think of a few 5.10s in which this is the case as well. So, congratulations for saying something that is flat out wrong, and may break someone's leg. n00b.
What a pansy ass, sport weenie attitude. See, this is the type of guy that stick clips... Remember, don't be a weenie, instead:
Learn how to DOWNCLIMB, work the start (especially if it's only 15 feet), and CLIMB IT!
If you really need to get up it, and really can't work the start after trying it, than you can stick-clip it and get up the thing. But I see too many guys stick clip the first bolt without even TRYING the start. Thats just a poor attitude, breeds self doubt and kills confidence. Get a strong head on your shoulders from the start.
DON'T BE A WEENIE
(This post was edited by joeforte on Jul 10, 2008, 3:56 AM)
|
|
|
|
|
sungam
Jul 10, 2008, 8:23 AM
Post #20 of 59
(6345 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 24, 2004
Posts: 26804
|
joeforte wrote: camhead wrote: joeforte wrote: If there first bolt is that high, you can bet the beginning sequence is significantly easier than the overall difficulty of the route. hahahahahahahahaha! yore rong. There are quite a few routes out there that are bolted with the intention of using a stick clip. They have high first bolts, and may often have the crux right off the ground! This is more common in harder grades, but I can think of a few 5.10s in which this is the case as well. So, congratulations for saying something that is flat out wrong, and may break someone's leg. n00b. \ What a pansy ass, sport weenie attitude. See, this is the type of guy that stick clips... Remember, don't be a weenie, instead: Learn how to DOWNCLIMB, work the start (especially if it's only 15 feet), and CLIMB IT! If you really need to get up it, and really can't work the start after trying it, than you can stick-clip it and get up the thing. But I see too many guys stick clip the first bolt without even TRYING the start. Thats just a poor attitude, breeds self doubt and kills confidence. Get a strong head on your shoulders from the start. DON'T BE A WEENIE
I think that one was a insulting/(suprisingly)informatic combo thing...
n00b.
|
|
|
|
|
chossmonkey
Jul 10, 2008, 12:24 PM
Post #21 of 59
(6316 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 1, 2003
Posts: 28414
|
camhead wrote: joeforte wrote: If there first bolt is that high, you can bet the beginning sequence is significantly easier than the overall difficulty of the route. hahahahahahahahaha! yore rong. There are quite a few routes out there that are bolted with the intention of using a stick clip. They have high first bolts, and may often have the crux right off the ground! This is more common in harder grades, but I can think of a few 5.10s in which this is the case as well. So, congratulations for saying something that is flat out wrong, and may break someone's leg. n00b.
|
|
|
|
|
chossmonkey
Jul 10, 2008, 12:30 PM
Post #22 of 59
(6312 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 1, 2003
Posts: 28414
|
joeforte wrote: camhead wrote: joeforte wrote: If there first bolt is that high, you can bet the beginning sequence is significantly easier than the overall difficulty of the route. hahahahahahahahaha! yore rong. There are quite a few routes out there that are bolted with the intention of using a stick clip. They have high first bolts, and may often have the crux right off the ground! This is more common in harder grades, but I can think of a few 5.10s in which this is the case as well. So, congratulations for saying something that is flat out wrong, and may break someone's leg. n00b. \ What a pansy ass, sport weenie attitude. See, this is the type of guy that stick clips... Remember, don't be a weenie, instead: Learn how to DOWNCLIMB, work the start (especially if it's only 15 feet), and CLIMB IT! If you really need to get up it, and really can't work the start after trying it, than you can stick-clip it and get up the thing. But I see too many guys stick clip the first bolt without even TRYING the start. Thats just a poor attitude, breeds self doubt and kills confidence. Get a strong head on your shoulders from the start. DON'T BE A WEENIE
Haha!!
You should take your own advice.
|
|
|
|
|
markc
Jul 10, 2008, 12:49 PM
Post #23 of 59
(6303 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 21, 2003
Posts: 2481
|
joeforte wrote: camhead wrote: joeforte wrote: If there first bolt is that high, you can bet the beginning sequence is significantly easier than the overall difficulty of the route. hahahahahahahahaha! yore rong. There are quite a few routes out there that are bolted with the intention of using a stick clip. They have high first bolts, and may often have the crux right off the ground! This is more common in harder grades, but I can think of a few 5.10s in which this is the case as well. So, congratulations for saying something that is flat out wrong, and may break someone's leg. n00b. \ What a pansy ass, sport weenie attitude. See, this is the type of guy that stick clips... Remember, don't be a weenie, instead: Learn how to DOWNCLIMB, work the start (especially if it's only 15 feet), and CLIMB IT! If you really need to get up it, and really can't work the start after trying it, than you can stick-clip it and get up the thing. But I see too many guys stick clip the first bolt without even TRYING the start. Thats just a poor attitude, breeds self doubt and kills confidence. Get a strong head on your shoulders from the start. DON'T BE A WEENIE
For me, the decision to stick clip or not depends on a few factors. Height of the first bolt and even difficulty are often secondary to the nature of the landing. If we're talking about relatively flat ground without a lot of choss, I'm more willing to take the fall. If it's terrain that would be likely to end a season if you land funny, I have no qualms about protecting myself.
It's easy to tell someone to man up on the internet. It's less easy to do so when they're hobbling out from the crag because of too much bravado. As with all aspects of climbing, it's up to each of us to determine our own comfort level for risk. Besides, some other party stick-clipping the start of every route doesn't impact my climbing.
|
|
|
|
|
sungam
Jul 10, 2008, 12:51 PM
Post #24 of 59
(6300 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 24, 2004
Posts: 26804
|
chossmonkey wrote: camhead wrote: joeforte wrote: If there first bolt is that high, you can bet the beginning sequence is significantly easier than the overall difficulty of the route. hahahahahahahahaha! yore rong. There are quite a few routes out there that are bolted with the intention of using a stick clip. They have high first bolts, and may often have the crux right off the ground! This is more common in harder grades, but I can think of a few 5.10s in which this is the case as well. So, congratulations for saying something that is flat out wrong, and may break someone's leg. n00b. What about those who have Jesus as their stick clip?
I should know, I'm a minister.
|
|
|
|
|
camhead
Jul 10, 2008, 12:51 PM
Post #25 of 59
(6300 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 10, 2001
Posts: 20939
|
joeforte wrote: camhead wrote: joeforte wrote: If there first bolt is that high, you can bet the beginning sequence is significantly easier than the overall difficulty of the route. hahahahahahahahaha! yore rong. There are quite a few routes out there that are bolted with the intention of using a stick clip. They have high first bolts, and may often have the crux right off the ground! This is more common in harder grades, but I can think of a few 5.10s in which this is the case as well. So, congratulations for saying something that is flat out wrong, and may break someone's leg. n00b. \ What a pansy ass, sport weenie attitude. See, this is the type of guy that stick clips... Remember, don't be a weenie, instead: Learn how to DOWNCLIMB, work the start (especially if it's only 15 feet), and CLIMB IT! If you really need to get up it, and really can't work the start after trying it, than you can stick-clip it and get up the thing. But I see too many guys stick clip the first bolt without even TRYING the start. Thats just a poor attitude, breeds self doubt and kills confidence. Get a strong head on your shoulders from the start. DON'T BE A WEENIE
the cool thing about rc.com and ascents lists is that I can click on this guy's profile, look at all his rad sends, and then laugh at him for being a weakmo who doesn't know what he is talking about.
So, mister joeforte, next time you want to go siege-project toprope a 5.12a in your general area, go check out "Iniquity" at the Red River Gorge. It has a dynamic, v5-ish start to it with a bad landing. The first bolt is about 15 feet up. Please come show me how to down-climb it, because I had to use my weenie stickcip.
In all seriousness, trying to apply a ballsy, "don't be a weenie" attitude to a route that has been rap-bolted is ghey. I climb sport to be safe, I climb trad to be more confident. And, since I've onsighted both sport and trad an entire number grade harder than you redpoint, I'll just say...
wait for it...
SHUT THE FUCK UP, NOOB!
(This post was edited by camhead on Jul 10, 2008, 12:56 PM)
|
|
|
|
|
sungam
Jul 10, 2008, 12:52 PM
Post #26 of 59
(3958 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 24, 2004
Posts: 26804
|
chossmonkey wrote: joeforte wrote: camhead wrote: joeforte wrote: If there first bolt is that high, you can bet the beginning sequence is significantly easier than the overall difficulty of the route. hahahahahahahahaha! yore rong. There are quite a few routes out there that are bolted with the intention of using a stick clip. They have high first bolts, and may often have the crux right off the ground! This is more common in harder grades, but I can think of a few 5.10s in which this is the case as well. So, congratulations for saying something that is flat out wrong, and may break someone's leg. n00b. \ What a pansy ass, sport weenie attitude. See, this is the type of guy that stick clips... Remember, don't be a weenie, instead: Learn how to DOWNCLIMB, work the start (especially if it's only 15 feet), and CLIMB IT! If you really need to get up it, and really can't work the start after trying it, than you can stick-clip it and get up the thing. But I see too many guys stick clip the first bolt without even TRYING the start. Thats just a poor attitude, breeds self doubt and kills confidence. Get a strong head on your shoulders from the start. DON'T BE A WEENIEHaha!! You should take your own advice.
|
|
|
|
|
sungam
Jul 10, 2008, 12:53 PM
Post #27 of 59
(3957 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 24, 2004
Posts: 26804
|
Not sure what that was ment to mean, but it sure looked meaningfull to say, so I said it. (did you even give any advice in this thread? or ever?  )
|
|
|
|
|
chossmonkey
Jul 10, 2008, 12:59 PM
Post #28 of 59
(3954 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 1, 2003
Posts: 28414
|
sungam wrote: Not sure what that was ment to mean, but it sure looked meaningfull to say, so I said it. (did you even give any advice in this thread? or ever? )
|
|
|
|
|
sungam
Jul 10, 2008, 1:04 PM
Post #29 of 59
(3949 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 24, 2004
Posts: 26804
|
chossmonkey wrote: sungam wrote: Not sure what that was ment to mean, but it sure looked meaningfull to say, so I said it. (did you even give any advice in this thread? or ever? ) Are you talking to yourself again?
|
|
|
|
|
sungam
Jul 10, 2008, 1:04 PM
Post #30 of 59
(3949 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 24, 2004
Posts: 26804
|
camhead wrote: joeforte wrote: camhead wrote: joeforte wrote: If there first bolt is that high, you can bet the beginning sequence is significantly easier than the overall difficulty of the route. hahahahahahahahaha! yore rong. There are quite a few routes out there that are bolted with the intention of using a stick clip. They have high first bolts, and may often have the crux right off the ground! This is more common in harder grades, but I can think of a few 5.10s in which this is the case as well. So, congratulations for saying something that is flat out wrong, and may break someone's leg. n00b. \ What a pansy ass, sport weenie attitude. See, this is the type of guy that stick clips... Remember, don't be a weenie, instead: Learn how to DOWNCLIMB, work the start (especially if it's only 15 feet), and CLIMB IT! If you really need to get up it, and really can't work the start after trying it, than you can stick-clip it and get up the thing. But I see too many guys stick clip the first bolt without even TRYING the start. Thats just a poor attitude, breeds self doubt and kills confidence. Get a strong head on your shoulders from the start. DON'T BE A WEENIE the cool thing about rc.com and ascents lists is that I can click on this guy's profile, look at all his rad sends, and then laugh at him for being a weakmo who doesn't know what he is talking about. So, mister joeforte, next time you want to go siege-project toprope a 5.12a in your general area, go check out "Iniquity" at the Red River Gorge. It has a dynamic, v5-ish start to it with a bad landing. The first bolt is about 15 feet up. Please come show me how to down-climb it, because I had to use my weenie stickcip. In all seriousness, trying to apply a ballsy, "don't be a weenie" attitude to a route that has been rap-bolted is ghey. I climb sport to be safe, I climb trad to be more confident. And, since I've onsighted both sport and trad an entire number grade harder than you redpoint, I'll just say... wait for it... SHUT THE FUCK UP, NOOB!
Is there something you're not telling us here...?
|
|
|
|
|
chossmonkey
Jul 10, 2008, 1:25 PM
Post #31 of 59
(3944 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 1, 2003
Posts: 28414
|
sungam wrote: Is there something you're not telling us here...?
I don't think so.
I bet Clausti has some dirt to dish though.
|
|
|
|
|
clausti
Jul 10, 2008, 1:35 PM
Post #32 of 59
(3936 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 5, 2004
Posts: 5690
|
chossmonkey wrote: sungam wrote: Is there something you're not telling us here...? Other than that he is the real deal? I don't think so. I bet Clausti has some dirt to dish though.
I'm a better sport climber than camhead. that is the dirt. Truly. Cammy is a tard climber at heart, but me, I know every rope trick and clip stick in 8 states by their first names. He did onsight every dyno on iniquity, though. His foot slipped a couple times at the bottom, till I shared some ancient sport climbing secrets in return for the promise of oral pleasure, but the redpoint was all first-try hucks.
Also, when we can't find a stick long enough, I usually climb to the first bolt, since he can catch me.
|
|
|
|
|
sungam
Jul 10, 2008, 2:09 PM
Post #33 of 59
(3921 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 24, 2004
Posts: 26804
|
clausti wrote: chossmonkey wrote: sungam wrote: Is there something you're not telling us here...? Other than that he is the real deal? I don't think so. I bet Clausti has some dirt to dish though. I'm a better sport climber than camhead. that is the dirt. Truly. Cammy is a tard climber at heart, but me, I know every rope trick and clip stick in 8 states by their first names. He did onsight every dyno on iniquity, though. His foot slipped a couple times at the bottom, till I shared some ancient sport climbing secrets in return for the promise of oral pleasure, but the redpoint was all first-try hucks. Also, when we can't find a stick long enough, I usually climb to the first bolt, since he can catch me.
Oral pleasure, huh?
Man, I wish I knew some ancient sport climbing secrets... mrmrmr...
|
|
|
|
|
cracklover
Jul 10, 2008, 2:41 PM
Post #34 of 59
(3911 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 14, 2002
Posts: 10162
|
camhead wrote: In all seriousness, trying to apply a ballsy, "don't be a weenie" attitude to a route that has been rap-bolted is ghey.
And stupid. If the bolts were set for stick clipping, I stick clip. It's just sport climbing, who the hell cares?
I mean, sure, if it's your thing to always climb in double-layer plastic mountaineering boots - go right ahead. But suggesting that they're the best solution for someone else when they go sport climbing, is just, well... a dumb thing to do.
GO
|
|
|
|
|
granite_grrl
Jul 10, 2008, 3:39 PM
Post #35 of 59
(3893 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 25, 2002
Posts: 15084
|
chossmonkey wrote: camhead wrote: joeforte wrote: If there first bolt is that high, you can bet the beginning sequence is significantly easier than the overall difficulty of the route. hahahahahahahahaha! yore rong. There are quite a few routes out there that are bolted with the intention of using a stick clip. They have high first bolts, and may often have the crux right off the ground! This is more common in harder grades, but I can think of a few 5.10s in which this is the case as well. So, congratulations for saying something that is flat out wrong, and may break someone's leg. n00b. What about those who have Jesus as their stick clip?
Praise Jebus!!!
|
|
|
|
|
stonefoxgirl
Jul 10, 2008, 4:50 PM
Post #36 of 59
(3876 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 15, 2003
Posts: 595
|
Good to see a new 'choose your own adventure' story!
Thanks Clausti - that was awesome
|
|
|
|
|
Scrupuruss
Jul 10, 2008, 5:04 PM
Post #37 of 59
(3871 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 9, 2008
Posts: 13
|
Again, thanks for all the advice.
Is there anybody here who has actually climbed the Pie Slice? Although it may lead to a whole new round of name-calling, I'd like to risk hearing about people's actual experience with this particular rock. I can imagine that people have done both-- some climb up to the first clip, and others stick-clip it. The third option for this locale would be climbing up another side (perhaps with the help of a nearby tree?) to get to the top to set up a toprope anchor.
|
|
|
|
|
joeforte
Jul 10, 2008, 6:00 PM
Post #38 of 59
(3849 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 9, 2005
Posts: 1093
|
So camhead judges his climbing ability by comparing his RC.com profile to others. Nice... Now I understand why you stick clip. I hope the OP is taking notes, because this is typical weenie behavior.
I better update my "send list" so I can better prove myself to internet geeks... Lame
|
|
|
|
|
Scrupuruss
Jul 10, 2008, 6:05 PM
Post #39 of 59
(3843 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 9, 2008
Posts: 13
|
I was hoping we could bury the "Only Weenies Use a Stick-Clip" controversy. Now I'm just hoping it doesn't lead into the "Only Weenies Compare Their Profile to Others" controversy. 
(This post was edited by Scrupuruss on Jul 10, 2008, 6:10 PM)
|
|
|
|
|
cracklover
Jul 10, 2008, 6:53 PM
Post #41 of 59
(3818 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 14, 2002
Posts: 10162
|
joeforte wrote: So camhead judges his climbing ability by comparing his RC.com profile to others. Nice... Now I understand why you stick clip.
No, he stick clips because the route was set up that way. Thats all there is to it. Why don't you go try your ethics on a sport route where you're supposed to rap in, and the climb starts before you get to the bottom of the cliff. With your ethics, starting from the bottom, you would climb hundreds of feet before getting to the first bolt. It's just stupid.
Sure, if that floats your boat, feel free to do it your way. Skip clips, place gear, don't stick clip. Whatever floats your boat! But don't ridicule people for climbing a route the way it was meant to be climbed. Especially when doing it "your way" can mean a bad fall.
GO
|
|
|
|
|
hafilax
Jul 10, 2008, 7:48 PM
Post #42 of 59
(3798 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 12, 2007
Posts: 3025
|
Don't forget the ancient art of the shoulder stand.
People onsite V5 high balls with bad landings on a regular basis so I'm not sure what all that chest thumping about Iniquity is all about. Especially given that Camhead basically onsited it according to Clausti.
People are free to choose how they approach a climb. Bolts are often put in with stick clips in mind but there is something especially satisfying about putting your butt on the line for an onsite.
There is no 'way a route should be climbed'. You get to the top or you don't. Everything else is just stamp collecting.
|
|
|
|
|
clausti
Jul 10, 2008, 8:21 PM
Post #43 of 59
(3789 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 5, 2004
Posts: 5690
|
Iniquity merely stands as a counter example to "you may be sure if the first bolt is high that the climbing below it is the easiest of the route," which is patently untrue.
|
|
|
|
|
cracklover
Jul 10, 2008, 8:30 PM
Post #44 of 59
(3782 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 14, 2002
Posts: 10162
|
hafilax wrote: There is no 'way a route should be climbed'. You get to the top or you don't. Everything else is just stamp collecting.
Nice misdirection. If you're going to quote me, use the words I said. "Should" implies a value judgment that I didn't mean, and didn't say. What I said was about the way a climb is "meant" to be done.
Look, sport climbing is just like gym climbing, except you don't get to move the holds around. Instead, the bolts are placed by the holds, rather than the other way around. If the first good clipping stance is 15 feet up, and the area has a stick clipping ethic, then that's how the climb will be bolted, even if the crux is before the first bolt.
You can climb the route however you like, but if you make a choice that's different than what the setter had in mind, expect it to be harder than what the placard with the blue tape says.
GO
(This post was edited by cracklover on Jul 10, 2008, 8:37 PM)
|
|
|
|
|
markc
Jul 10, 2008, 8:40 PM
Post #45 of 59
(3771 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 21, 2003
Posts: 2481
|
To bring up another point, one element that separates sport climbing from traditional climbing is the degree of risk. Sport climbing focuses on gymnastic movement rather than on route protection. The idea of adding unnecessary risk for the sake of a little chest-thumping doesn't add up.
Hell, why not toprope off of poorly constructed anchors to make it more spicy? In short, because it runs counter to the nature of the pursuit.
|
|
|
|
|
zeke_sf
Jul 10, 2008, 8:51 PM
Post #47 of 59
(3758 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 28, 2006
Posts: 18730
|
camhead wrote: gawd, you guys (other than cracklover and clausti) are missing the point. this is not a stylistic or ethical debate, or even a spray-a-ton (although I kind of made it one by calling the guy weke). it is a black and white matter of RIGHT and WRONG. Luke Skywalker here wrote In reply to: If there first bolt is that high, you can bet the beginning sequence is significantly easier than the overall difficulty of the route. that. is. wrong. that's all.
|
|
|
|
|
camhead
Jul 10, 2008, 9:04 PM
Post #48 of 59
(3748 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 10, 2001
Posts: 20939
|
zeke_sf wrote: camhead wrote: gawd, you guys (other than cracklover and clausti) are missing the point. this is not a stylistic or ethical debate, or even a spray-a-ton (although I kind of made it one by calling the guy weke). it is a black and white matter of RIGHT and WRONG. Luke Skywalker here wrote In reply to: If there first bolt is that high, you can bet the beginning sequence is significantly easier than the overall difficulty of the route. that. is. wrong. that's all. Whatever :roll:. I wrote he should bring a ladder and a sherpa to get to the first bolt. I have yet to see my argument refuted.
listen you stupid dipshit...
|
|
|
|
|
zeke_sf
Jul 10, 2008, 9:16 PM
Post #49 of 59
(3745 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 28, 2006
Posts: 18730
|
camhead wrote: zeke_sf wrote: camhead wrote: gawd, you guys (other than cracklover and clausti) are missing the point. this is not a stylistic or ethical debate, or even a spray-a-ton (although I kind of made it one by calling the guy weke). it is a black and white matter of RIGHT and WRONG. Luke Skywalker here wrote In reply to: If there first bolt is that high, you can bet the beginning sequence is significantly easier than the overall difficulty of the route. that. is. wrong. that's all. Whatever :roll:. I wrote he should bring a ladder and a sherpa to get to the first bolt. I have yet to see my argument refuted. listen you stupid dipshit...
|
|
|
|
|
clausti
Jul 10, 2008, 9:21 PM
Post #50 of 59
(3740 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 5, 2004
Posts: 5690
|
you know what?
|
|
|
|
|
clausti
Jul 10, 2008, 9:22 PM
Post #51 of 59
(1795 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 5, 2004
Posts: 5690
|
clausti wrote: you know what?
i always stick clip my PTFTWs.
|
|
|
|
|
clausti
Jul 10, 2008, 9:22 PM
Post #52 of 59
(1794 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 5, 2004
Posts: 5690
|
clausti wrote: clausti wrote: you know what? i always stick clip my PTFTWs.
but then, i rap-bolted my protekshunz.
|
|
|
|
|
sungam
Jul 10, 2008, 11:06 PM
Post #53 of 59
(1760 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 24, 2004
Posts: 26804
|
camhead wrote: gawd, you guys (other than cracklover and clausti) are missing the point. this is not a stylistic or ethical debate, or even a spray-a-ton (although I kind of made it one by calling the guy weke). it is a black and white matter of RIGHT and WRONG. Luke Skywalker here wrote In reply to: If there first bolt is that high, you can bet the beginning sequence is significantly easier than the overall difficulty of the route. that. is. wrong. that's all.
Mebe if he sayed that it's possible the start is considerabley easier then the rest.
Then again, maybe he was saing "you can bet on it, so I'll bet against you, then I'll have some moniez to buy protekshonz"
|
|
|
|
|
sungam
Jul 10, 2008, 11:06 PM
Post #54 of 59
(1760 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 24, 2004
Posts: 26804
|
joeforte wrote: I better update my "send list" so I can better prove myself to internet geeks... Lame
You should do just that.
|
|
|
|
|
sungam
Jul 10, 2008, 11:07 PM
Post #55 of 59
(1759 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 24, 2004
Posts: 26804
|
clausti wrote: clausti wrote: you know what? i always stick clip my PTFTWs.
|
|
|
|
|
camhead
Jul 10, 2008, 11:13 PM
Post #56 of 59
(1757 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 10, 2001
Posts: 20939
|
hey sungamagnus,
check outz my new swig, NOW!
|
|
|
|
|
sungam
Jul 12, 2008, 1:09 PM
Post #57 of 59
(1713 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 24, 2004
Posts: 26804
|
camhead wrote: hey sungamagnus, check outz my new swig, NOW!
Atchaly, I have tri-citezen ship...
EAT IT! BIOTCH! EEEAAATTTT ITTTTTT!!!
(taste gud, dunnit?)
|
|
|
|
|
drh
Oct 31, 2008, 4:16 PM
Post #58 of 59
(1488 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 18, 2004
Posts: 1
|
Scrupuruss wrote: Again, thanks for all the advice. Is there anybody here who has actually climbed the Pie Slice? Although it may lead to a whole new round of name-calling, I'd like to risk hearing about people's actual experience with this particular rock. I can imagine that people have done both-- some climb up to the first clip, and others stick-clip it. The third option for this locale would be climbing up another side (perhaps with the help of a nearby tree?) to get to the top to set up a toprope anchor.
The easiest and only way up the pie slice is the 5.10A route. It is not a particularly bold climb and the easy crux is the final lip to the top not getting to the first bolt. A horizontal crack at the bottom will accept a cam if you do not like the exposure to the first bolt. When I last climbed it (15? years ago) the 1/4" hammer in button head bolts especially the last one with some shaft showing did not inspire too much confidence in the protection. I hope they have been replaced by now.
|
|
|
|
|
Tfish
Aug 18, 2009, 6:21 AM
Post #59 of 59
(1205 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 2, 2009
Posts: 7
|
I just climbed this today. I used a cam in the first crack with a long runner. All the bolts are pretty solid with some silicon over the head. The 4th bolt is a little loose. And then the bolt at the very top is a old rusty 1/4 one but you dont need it because you only see it after you top out. Who ever bolted this route was a retard because the rap chains are way to the right side and are horrible for cleaning the route.
|
|
|
|
|
|
