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sungam
Jul 10, 2008, 12:52 PM
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chossmonkey wrote: joeforte wrote: camhead wrote: joeforte wrote: If there first bolt is that high, you can bet the beginning sequence is significantly easier than the overall difficulty of the route. hahahahahahahahaha! yore rong. There are quite a few routes out there that are bolted with the intention of using a stick clip. They have high first bolts, and may often have the crux right off the ground! This is more common in harder grades, but I can think of a few 5.10s in which this is the case as well. So, congratulations for saying something that is flat out wrong, and may break someone's leg. n00b. \ What a pansy ass, sport weenie attitude. See, this is the type of guy that stick clips... Remember, don't be a weenie, instead: Learn how to DOWNCLIMB, work the start (especially if it's only 15 feet), and CLIMB IT! If you really need to get up it, and really can't work the start after trying it, than you can stick-clip it and get up the thing. But I see too many guys stick clip the first bolt without even TRYING the start. Thats just a poor attitude, breeds self doubt and kills confidence. Get a strong head on your shoulders from the start. DON'T BE A WEENIEHaha!! You should take your own advice.
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sungam
Jul 10, 2008, 12:53 PM
Post #27 of 59
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Not sure what that was ment to mean, but it sure looked meaningfull to say, so I said it. (did you even give any advice in this thread? or ever?  )
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chossmonkey
Jul 10, 2008, 12:59 PM
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sungam wrote: Not sure what that was ment to mean, but it sure looked meaningfull to say, so I said it. (did you even give any advice in this thread? or ever? )
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sungam
Jul 10, 2008, 1:04 PM
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chossmonkey wrote: sungam wrote: Not sure what that was ment to mean, but it sure looked meaningfull to say, so I said it. (did you even give any advice in this thread? or ever? ) Are you talking to yourself again?
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sungam
Jul 10, 2008, 1:04 PM
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camhead wrote: joeforte wrote: camhead wrote: joeforte wrote: If there first bolt is that high, you can bet the beginning sequence is significantly easier than the overall difficulty of the route. hahahahahahahahaha! yore rong. There are quite a few routes out there that are bolted with the intention of using a stick clip. They have high first bolts, and may often have the crux right off the ground! This is more common in harder grades, but I can think of a few 5.10s in which this is the case as well. So, congratulations for saying something that is flat out wrong, and may break someone's leg. n00b. \ What a pansy ass, sport weenie attitude. See, this is the type of guy that stick clips... Remember, don't be a weenie, instead: Learn how to DOWNCLIMB, work the start (especially if it's only 15 feet), and CLIMB IT! If you really need to get up it, and really can't work the start after trying it, than you can stick-clip it and get up the thing. But I see too many guys stick clip the first bolt without even TRYING the start. Thats just a poor attitude, breeds self doubt and kills confidence. Get a strong head on your shoulders from the start. DON'T BE A WEENIE the cool thing about rc.com and ascents lists is that I can click on this guy's profile, look at all his rad sends, and then laugh at him for being a weakmo who doesn't know what he is talking about. So, mister joeforte, next time you want to go siege-project toprope a 5.12a in your general area, go check out "Iniquity" at the Red River Gorge. It has a dynamic, v5-ish start to it with a bad landing. The first bolt is about 15 feet up. Please come show me how to down-climb it, because I had to use my weenie stickcip. In all seriousness, trying to apply a ballsy, "don't be a weenie" attitude to a route that has been rap-bolted is ghey. I climb sport to be safe, I climb trad to be more confident. And, since I've onsighted both sport and trad an entire number grade harder than you redpoint, I'll just say... wait for it... SHUT THE FUCK UP, NOOB!
Is there something you're not telling us here...?
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chossmonkey
Jul 10, 2008, 1:25 PM
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sungam wrote: Is there something you're not telling us here...?
I don't think so.
I bet Clausti has some dirt to dish though.
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clausti
Jul 10, 2008, 1:35 PM
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chossmonkey wrote: sungam wrote: Is there something you're not telling us here...? Other than that he is the real deal? I don't think so. I bet Clausti has some dirt to dish though.
I'm a better sport climber than camhead. that is the dirt. Truly. Cammy is a tard climber at heart, but me, I know every rope trick and clip stick in 8 states by their first names. He did onsight every dyno on iniquity, though. His foot slipped a couple times at the bottom, till I shared some ancient sport climbing secrets in return for the promise of oral pleasure, but the redpoint was all first-try hucks.
Also, when we can't find a stick long enough, I usually climb to the first bolt, since he can catch me.
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sungam
Jul 10, 2008, 2:09 PM
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clausti wrote: chossmonkey wrote: sungam wrote: Is there something you're not telling us here...? Other than that he is the real deal? I don't think so. I bet Clausti has some dirt to dish though. I'm a better sport climber than camhead. that is the dirt. Truly. Cammy is a tard climber at heart, but me, I know every rope trick and clip stick in 8 states by their first names. He did onsight every dyno on iniquity, though. His foot slipped a couple times at the bottom, till I shared some ancient sport climbing secrets in return for the promise of oral pleasure, but the redpoint was all first-try hucks. Also, when we can't find a stick long enough, I usually climb to the first bolt, since he can catch me.
Oral pleasure, huh?
Man, I wish I knew some ancient sport climbing secrets... mrmrmr...
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cracklover
Jul 10, 2008, 2:41 PM
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camhead wrote: In all seriousness, trying to apply a ballsy, "don't be a weenie" attitude to a route that has been rap-bolted is ghey.
And stupid. If the bolts were set for stick clipping, I stick clip. It's just sport climbing, who the hell cares?
I mean, sure, if it's your thing to always climb in double-layer plastic mountaineering boots - go right ahead. But suggesting that they're the best solution for someone else when they go sport climbing, is just, well... a dumb thing to do.
GO
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granite_grrl
Jul 10, 2008, 3:39 PM
Post #35 of 59
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chossmonkey wrote: camhead wrote: joeforte wrote: If there first bolt is that high, you can bet the beginning sequence is significantly easier than the overall difficulty of the route. hahahahahahahahaha! yore rong. There are quite a few routes out there that are bolted with the intention of using a stick clip. They have high first bolts, and may often have the crux right off the ground! This is more common in harder grades, but I can think of a few 5.10s in which this is the case as well. So, congratulations for saying something that is flat out wrong, and may break someone's leg. n00b. What about those who have Jesus as their stick clip?
Praise Jebus!!!
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stonefoxgirl
Jul 10, 2008, 4:50 PM
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Good to see a new 'choose your own adventure' story!
Thanks Clausti - that was awesome
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Scrupuruss
Jul 10, 2008, 5:04 PM
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Again, thanks for all the advice.
Is there anybody here who has actually climbed the Pie Slice? Although it may lead to a whole new round of name-calling, I'd like to risk hearing about people's actual experience with this particular rock. I can imagine that people have done both-- some climb up to the first clip, and others stick-clip it. The third option for this locale would be climbing up another side (perhaps with the help of a nearby tree?) to get to the top to set up a toprope anchor.
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joeforte
Jul 10, 2008, 6:00 PM
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So camhead judges his climbing ability by comparing his RC.com profile to others. Nice... Now I understand why you stick clip. I hope the OP is taking notes, because this is typical weenie behavior.
I better update my "send list" so I can better prove myself to internet geeks... Lame
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Scrupuruss
Jul 10, 2008, 6:05 PM
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I was hoping we could bury the "Only Weenies Use a Stick-Clip" controversy. Now I'm just hoping it doesn't lead into the "Only Weenies Compare Their Profile to Others" controversy. 
(This post was edited by Scrupuruss on Jul 10, 2008, 6:10 PM)
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cracklover
Jul 10, 2008, 6:53 PM
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joeforte wrote: So camhead judges his climbing ability by comparing his RC.com profile to others. Nice... Now I understand why you stick clip.
No, he stick clips because the route was set up that way. Thats all there is to it. Why don't you go try your ethics on a sport route where you're supposed to rap in, and the climb starts before you get to the bottom of the cliff. With your ethics, starting from the bottom, you would climb hundreds of feet before getting to the first bolt. It's just stupid.
Sure, if that floats your boat, feel free to do it your way. Skip clips, place gear, don't stick clip. Whatever floats your boat! But don't ridicule people for climbing a route the way it was meant to be climbed. Especially when doing it "your way" can mean a bad fall.
GO
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hafilax
Jul 10, 2008, 7:48 PM
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Don't forget the ancient art of the shoulder stand.
People onsite V5 high balls with bad landings on a regular basis so I'm not sure what all that chest thumping about Iniquity is all about. Especially given that Camhead basically onsited it according to Clausti.
People are free to choose how they approach a climb. Bolts are often put in with stick clips in mind but there is something especially satisfying about putting your butt on the line for an onsite.
There is no 'way a route should be climbed'. You get to the top or you don't. Everything else is just stamp collecting.
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clausti
Jul 10, 2008, 8:21 PM
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Iniquity merely stands as a counter example to "you may be sure if the first bolt is high that the climbing below it is the easiest of the route," which is patently untrue.
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cracklover
Jul 10, 2008, 8:30 PM
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hafilax wrote: There is no 'way a route should be climbed'. You get to the top or you don't. Everything else is just stamp collecting.
Nice misdirection. If you're going to quote me, use the words I said. "Should" implies a value judgment that I didn't mean, and didn't say. What I said was about the way a climb is "meant" to be done.
Look, sport climbing is just like gym climbing, except you don't get to move the holds around. Instead, the bolts are placed by the holds, rather than the other way around. If the first good clipping stance is 15 feet up, and the area has a stick clipping ethic, then that's how the climb will be bolted, even if the crux is before the first bolt.
You can climb the route however you like, but if you make a choice that's different than what the setter had in mind, expect it to be harder than what the placard with the blue tape says.
GO
(This post was edited by cracklover on Jul 10, 2008, 8:37 PM)
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markc
Jul 10, 2008, 8:40 PM
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To bring up another point, one element that separates sport climbing from traditional climbing is the degree of risk. Sport climbing focuses on gymnastic movement rather than on route protection. The idea of adding unnecessary risk for the sake of a little chest-thumping doesn't add up.
Hell, why not toprope off of poorly constructed anchors to make it more spicy? In short, because it runs counter to the nature of the pursuit.
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zeke_sf
Jul 10, 2008, 8:51 PM
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camhead wrote: gawd, you guys (other than cracklover and clausti) are missing the point. this is not a stylistic or ethical debate, or even a spray-a-ton (although I kind of made it one by calling the guy weke). it is a black and white matter of RIGHT and WRONG. Luke Skywalker here wrote In reply to: If there first bolt is that high, you can bet the beginning sequence is significantly easier than the overall difficulty of the route. that. is. wrong. that's all.
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camhead
Jul 10, 2008, 9:04 PM
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zeke_sf wrote: camhead wrote: gawd, you guys (other than cracklover and clausti) are missing the point. this is not a stylistic or ethical debate, or even a spray-a-ton (although I kind of made it one by calling the guy weke). it is a black and white matter of RIGHT and WRONG. Luke Skywalker here wrote In reply to: If there first bolt is that high, you can bet the beginning sequence is significantly easier than the overall difficulty of the route. that. is. wrong. that's all. Whatever :roll:. I wrote he should bring a ladder and a sherpa to get to the first bolt. I have yet to see my argument refuted.
listen you stupid dipshit...
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zeke_sf
Jul 10, 2008, 9:16 PM
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camhead wrote: zeke_sf wrote: camhead wrote: gawd, you guys (other than cracklover and clausti) are missing the point. this is not a stylistic or ethical debate, or even a spray-a-ton (although I kind of made it one by calling the guy weke). it is a black and white matter of RIGHT and WRONG. Luke Skywalker here wrote In reply to: If there first bolt is that high, you can bet the beginning sequence is significantly easier than the overall difficulty of the route. that. is. wrong. that's all. Whatever :roll:. I wrote he should bring a ladder and a sherpa to get to the first bolt. I have yet to see my argument refuted. listen you stupid dipshit...
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clausti
Jul 10, 2008, 9:21 PM
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you know what?
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