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Arrogant_Bastard
Nov 5, 2008, 10:04 PM
Post #176 of 485
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angry wrote: Arrogant_Bastard wrote: Johnny_Fang wrote: there's no contradiction. i don't want a line of bolts up a crack. i often but not always want two bolts at the top of a multipitch trad climb. the world isn't black and white. Well, I don't. If it doesn't need bolts it doesn't need bolts. Simple really. And dropping anchors every 100 feet on 500 feet of crack is a line of bolts, just further spaced. Johnny_Fang wrote: i also said that they are much more convenient, which is really the main point. throwing up a dozen pitches in a day moves way faster when anchors are bolted. No, I don't think it is. If you want convenient why not just Sport Climb? Why not bolt the crack, can't get much more convenient than that. And again, with experience you get better and quicker at setting up anchors... especially if there's 'bomber placements aplenty'. Almost every route in the valley and everywhere else I've climbed (except the Black) have bolted belays. Not on every pitch and sometimes the bolts are old and you just build your own next to the bolt, but certainly most multipitch trad routes have enough anchors to rap the entire route without leaving a thing. Who goes to hell for this?
I had to double check, I thought I mentioned walk-offs but I must have changed it before posting. If rapping is required then obviously you need stations. But Johnny was specifically referring to the convenience and "increased safety" of having bolts when there are "bomber placements a plenty".
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angry
Nov 5, 2008, 10:12 PM
Post #177 of 485
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Arrogant_Bastard wrote: angry wrote: Arrogant_Bastard wrote: Johnny_Fang wrote: there's no contradiction. i don't want a line of bolts up a crack. i often but not always want two bolts at the top of a multipitch trad climb. the world isn't black and white. Well, I don't. If it doesn't need bolts it doesn't need bolts. Simple really. And dropping anchors every 100 feet on 500 feet of crack is a line of bolts, just further spaced. Johnny_Fang wrote: i also said that they are much more convenient, which is really the main point. throwing up a dozen pitches in a day moves way faster when anchors are bolted. No, I don't think it is. If you want convenient why not just Sport Climb? Why not bolt the crack, can't get much more convenient than that. And again, with experience you get better and quicker at setting up anchors... especially if there's 'bomber placements aplenty'. Almost every route in the valley and everywhere else I've climbed (except the Black) have bolted belays. Not on every pitch and sometimes the bolts are old and you just build your own next to the bolt, but certainly most multipitch trad routes have enough anchors to rap the entire route without leaving a thing. Who goes to hell for this? I had to double check, I thought I mentioned walk-offs but I must have changed it before posting. If rapping is required then obviously you need stations. But Johnny was specifically referring to the convenience and "increased safety" of having bolts when there are "bomber placements a plenty".
Many, many, many, (most) multipitch routes have bolted anchors until the very last pitch when you top out and walk off.
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petsfed
Nov 5, 2008, 11:52 PM
Post #178 of 485
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knieveltech wrote: irregularpanda wrote: HappinessIsWinning wrote: This is basically what I intended to say. If you don't like it then don't read it. If you don't get it, try reading it again, perhaps it will hit you eventually. Have fun climbing, and be safe. Did you get it yet? Don't bolt cracks, or the tribe will jump you, and beat you savagely. I offer you a challenge, before you bolt cracks, learn to climb trad for at least 3 years. BTW, you don't need to own a rack to accomplish this, just climb with other people. ^^^^ Lame. Ignore this advice. I suggest you immediately start bolting cracks anywhere in Wyoming in front of as many of the locals as possible. Carry on.
Unless you're in Ten Sleep, in which case the locals will help, which is not the outcome we're really gunning for here.
/srsly
//overheard on my last Ten Sleep trip: "I live 20 minutes from crack climbing heaven. I didn't drive for 7 hours to a sport area to go CRACK CLIMBING!"
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knieveltech
Nov 6, 2008, 12:35 AM
Post #179 of 485
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petsfed wrote: knieveltech wrote: irregularpanda wrote: HappinessIsWinning wrote: This is basically what I intended to say. If you don't like it then don't read it. If you don't get it, try reading it again, perhaps it will hit you eventually. Have fun climbing, and be safe. Did you get it yet? Don't bolt cracks, or the tribe will jump you, and beat you savagely. I offer you a challenge, before you bolt cracks, learn to climb trad for at least 3 years. BTW, you don't need to own a rack to accomplish this, just climb with other people. ^^^^ Lame. Ignore this advice. I suggest you immediately start bolting cracks anywhere in Wyoming in front of as many of the locals as possible. Carry on. Unless you're in Ten Sleep, in which case the locals will help, which is not the outcome we're really gunning for here. /srsly //overheard on my last Ten Sleep trip: "I live 20 minutes from crack climbing heaven. I didn't drive for 7 hours to a sport area to go CRACK CLIMBING!"
Truth be told I was rather hoping that belligerent locals would step in regardless of local ethic.
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sungam
Nov 6, 2008, 12:44 AM
Post #180 of 485
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Move to mainland europe?
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sammmy
Nov 6, 2008, 2:06 AM
Post #181 of 485
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camhead wrote: since it is dangerous to place gear from a layback.
Seriously?
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deltav
Nov 6, 2008, 2:12 AM
Post #182 of 485
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HappinessIsWinning wrote: angry wrote: Here's the thing troll, peruse the accidents. All of them, gym, sport, bouldering, trad, mountains, etc. Now where do the most accidents happen? At the inaccessible super hard trad routes? Or on the easily accessible sport and gym routes? According to the accidents/deaths posted on this site so far for the year 2008: Traditional Climbing: 25 reports Sport Climbing: 8 reports Gym: 3 reports Rappelling: 14 reports Soloing: 8 reports God (avalanches, rockfall, etc): 4 reports Aid: 2 reports Top Roping: 1 report Alpine: 3 reports Ice Climbing: 4 reports Maybe it's due to less steps to make mistakes at in sport climbing. I guess the next question would be "How many people climb trad, compared to people who climb sport?" Does anyone know an answer to this? From reading these posts it seems operator error is the most common cause of accident/death.
Everyone but you...
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sungam
Nov 6, 2008, 3:03 AM
Post #183 of 485
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sammmy wrote: camhead wrote: since it is dangerous to place gear from a layback. Seriously?
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sammmy
Nov 6, 2008, 3:44 AM
Post #184 of 485
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Well, one could posit that it is dangerous to place gear pretty much anywhere, it is dangerous to go sportz climbing, it is dangerous to go bouldering, it is dangerous to drive a car, it is dangerous to fly in an airplane, etc. However, since a layback accepts gear (in most cases, as do many other features that may not be deemed "safe"), I can't see why anyone would come to the conclusion that it would be acceptable to bolt it.
Just my (probably outdated) thought on the matter...
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sungam
Nov 6, 2008, 4:27 AM
Post #185 of 485
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I don't know the exact route that our man is talking about, but I assume the situation is such that the layback moves are strenuous and awkward, and pulling over to place gear would just be out of the question.
Could be wrong, though.
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sammmy
Nov 6, 2008, 4:47 AM
Post #186 of 485
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Well, in that case, I would suggest that
or you or me or whomever, work up through the grades (as has been suggested previously in this post) before slapping bolts on a layback (or other feature) that accepts gear.
Again, just my (probably outdated) opinion.
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angry
Nov 6, 2008, 4:55 AM
Post #187 of 485
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sungam wrote: I don't know the exact route that our man is talking about, but I assume the situation is such that the layback moves are strenuous and awkward, and pulling over to place gear would just be out of the question. Could be wrong, though.
It's called the troll layback dumbass
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robbovius
Nov 6, 2008, 1:19 PM
Post #188 of 485
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HappinessIsWinning wrote: I was merely making a point regarding chopping bolts off existing routes. It does not appear to have come off this way though.
DUH. you just figuring that out now? your OP came of as a thoughtless, shallowly rationalized and relatively inarticualte lambaste of everyone who enjoys trad.
one should not drink and post. it diminishes communcative ability.
(This post was edited by robbovius on Nov 6, 2008, 1:22 PM)
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grampacharlie
Nov 6, 2008, 1:40 PM
Post #189 of 485
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HappinessIsWinning wrote: happiegrrrl wrote: HappinessIsWinning wrote: Oh yeah, I don't want to climb trad near as much as I want to climb cracks. I could care less how I'm protecting myself, so long as it's solid, I just want to climb different types of rock. Try toproping then. I do, but that can't always be done, I commonly find lines that you can't protect or TR, that would actually make great routes. Only thing stopping me is people who think trad climbing is the only way we should be able to climb. I am for equal access, if we have the technology to make climbing safer and more accessible to people then why not use it. Just because some dinosaur had to run his pieces out 20 feet doesn't mean I should have to. All the time on this forum people want to go and talk about "learn this/that from this/that accident/death" Why not take measures to make this sport as safe as possible?
There are always inherent risks in climbing. Likewise, We have got to remeber that if there is no value on a thing, then there is no reason to repeat it. The reason people climb big walls, high peaks, and traditionally protected climbs is for the challenge. Mental, emotional, and physical. Bolting craks would be akin to putting a ladder up everest with hotels ever 1000 vertical feet. Yes, the climb would still be physically difficult, but the true nature of the challenge would be gone.
It is slightly elitest. But the reason we feel that way is because we worked our asses off to be able to climb things that scare others away. If you're willing to do something, and put in the effort, time and energy to do it right, you'll feel a lot better about you're accomplishments.
Please, don't bolt cracks. To place 10 bolts on a crack, at $10-$16 a peice, you could very easily hire a guide, or buy a buddy a few beers to lead you up it.
This is not meant to be mean or angry, simply a plea for understanding.
By the way, I'm sorry you feel that way about trad climbers. If you're ever in NH, feel free to look me up. I'll take up anything you're willing to follow.
(This post was edited by grampacharlie on Nov 6, 2008, 1:55 PM)
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grampacharlie
Nov 6, 2008, 1:45 PM
Post #190 of 485
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Why does is look like what I wrote was said by winning...
the quote box why I was replying was in the right place, still is? but it's not showing up correctly. Oh well.
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sbaclimber
Nov 6, 2008, 1:47 PM
Post #191 of 485
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Registered: Jan 22, 2004
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You buggered up the last closing quote tag with the closing bold tag
It should be:
left-bracket + slash + b + right-bracket + left-bracket + slash + quote + right-bracket
You have:
left-bracket + slash + left-bracket + slash + b + right-bracket + quote + right-bracket
(This post was edited by sbaclimber on Nov 6, 2008, 1:50 PM)
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grampacharlie
Nov 6, 2008, 1:55 PM
Post #192 of 485
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Thanks sba!
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jdefazio
Nov 6, 2008, 3:35 PM
Post #194 of 485
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sbaclimber wrote: grampacharlie wrote: Thanks sba! No worries. I felt like I was type out some sort of console attack sequence there. A + B, ->, <-, UP + DOWN.......... 
UP UP,DOWN DOWN,LEFT RIGHT,LEFT RIGHT, AB, SELECT, START. 
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HappinessIsWinning
Nov 6, 2008, 3:51 PM
Post #195 of 485
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I would be happy to follow, should I find my way to New Hampshire, I will certainly look you up. Likewise if your in Southern Colorado let me know.
Once again I will reiterate: I have no intention of bolting any cracks.
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sbaclimber
Nov 6, 2008, 3:55 PM
Post #196 of 485
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jdefazio wrote: sbaclimber wrote: grampacharlie wrote: Thanks sba! No worries. I felt like I was type out some sort of console attack sequence there. A + B, ->, <-, UP + DOWN.......... ^^^rong. UP UP,DOWN DOWN,LEFT RIGHT,LEFT RIGHT, AB, SELECT, START. 
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knieveltech
Nov 6, 2008, 4:16 PM
Post #197 of 485
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Registered: Dec 2, 2006
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jdefazio wrote: sbaclimber wrote: grampacharlie wrote: Thanks sba! No worries. I felt like I was type out some sort of console attack sequence there. A + B, ->, <-, UP + DOWN.......... ^^^rong. UP UP,DOWN DOWN,LEFT RIGHT,LEFT RIGHT, AB, SELECT, START.
It's BA, not AB. No extra Contra mans for you.
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HappinessIsWinning
Nov 6, 2008, 4:19 PM
Post #198 of 485
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knieveltech wrote: jdefazio wrote: sbaclimber wrote: grampacharlie wrote: Thanks sba! No worries. I felt like I was type out some sort of console attack sequence there. A + B, ->, <-, UP + DOWN.......... ^^^rong. UP UP,DOWN DOWN,LEFT RIGHT,LEFT RIGHT, AB, SELECT, START. It's BA, not AB. No extra Contra mans for you.
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jdefazio
Nov 6, 2008, 4:23 PM
Post #199 of 485
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knieveltech wrote: jdefazio wrote: sbaclimber wrote: grampacharlie wrote: Thanks sba! No worries. I felt like I was type out some sort of console attack sequence there. A + B, ->, <-, UP + DOWN.......... ^^^rong. UP UP,DOWN DOWN,LEFT RIGHT,LEFT RIGHT, AB, SELECT, START. It's BA, not AB. No extra Contra mans for you.
Damn! In my only defense, it has been about 20 years.
But, alas, ur rite and my sauce is weke.
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HappinessIsWinning
Nov 6, 2008, 4:24 PM
Post #200 of 485
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Depends, remembering a video game from 20 years ago might be what's weak...
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