|
USnavy
Aug 7, 2009, 12:31 PM
Post #52 of 104
(4767 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 6, 2007
Posts: 2667
|
camhead wrote: imnotclever wrote: [image]http://www.rockclimbing.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_attachment;postatt_id=1787;[/image] those are actually really useful when you want a backup, or when you are climbing with one single and twins.
|
|
|
|
|
dta95b7r
Aug 7, 2009, 1:05 PM
Post #53 of 104
(4749 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 20, 2007
Posts: 74
|
yeah the vcpro is really terrible ended up giving mine away though its perfect for the I LOVE SHORT ROPINGZ MY FRIENDS crowd
|
|
|
|
|
Crack_Addict_Ty
Aug 7, 2009, 6:19 PM
Post #54 of 104
(4682 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 7, 2009
Posts: 57
|
bigjonnyc wrote: Skidemon27 wrote: ...and let me also point out the fact the the belay device was only 4 hours old!!!! I truly doubt that the device was manufactured only 4 hours prior to your using it.
I can sort of back this up. I had one where the wire pulled out of the body of the device after only a few months of use. I didn't abuse it in any way. I brought it to the pro shop at the gym I climb at and they replaced it for free but claimed that it could happen again as they had seen this happen to a lot of the VC Pro IIs. I am surprised WC hasn't recalled them.
P.S. They are still completely safe when the wire pulls out, they just wouldn't be very easy to belay with.
(This post was edited by Crack_Addict_Ty on Aug 7, 2009, 6:21 PM)
|
|
|
|
|
vegastradguy
Aug 7, 2009, 6:38 PM
Post #55 of 104
(4672 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 28, 2002
Posts: 5919
|
I_do wrote: vegastradguy wrote: interestingly, while the BD ATC Sport is a very low seller in the US, its one of the best sellers in Europe- and its not the only single slot device out there- the Edelrid Jewel is another one (which i actually really like for cragging, after playing with one for a weekend after the OR show!)- neither sell well in the US, but in Europe they're fairly common because folks rarely rappel over there. Dude, how much time have you spent in Europe? I have never seen either of those devices being used by anyone...
none, really. just going off Edelrid and BD's sales of the devices over there- both of which are fairly strong.
the jewel is SS, and it is nice- i have to say it might be my new favorite crag belay device!
edited because i apparently cannot figure out how to use the quote function today.
(This post was edited by vegastradguy on Aug 7, 2009, 8:11 PM)
|
|
|
|
|
shockabuku
Aug 7, 2009, 7:46 PM
Post #56 of 104
(4637 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 20, 2006
Posts: 4868
|
vegastradguy wrote: I_do wrote: vegastradguy wrote: interestingly, while the BD ATC Sport is a very low seller in the US, its one of the best sellers in Europe- and its not the only single slot device out there- the Edelrid Jewel is another one (which i actually really like for cragging, after playing with one for a weekend after the OR show!)- neither sell well in the US, but in Europe they're fairly common because folks rarely rappel over there. none, really. just going off Edelrid and BD's sales of the devices over there- both of which are fairly strong. the jewel is SS, and it is nice- i have to say it might be my new favorite crag belay device! Dude, how much time have you spent in Europe? I have never seen either of those devices being used by anyone...
What they said
didn't make sense to me.
|
|
|
|
|
qwert
Aug 7, 2009, 8:44 PM
Post #57 of 104
(4605 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 24, 2004
Posts: 2394
|
vegastradguy wrote: I_do wrote: vegastradguy wrote: interestingly, while the BD ATC Sport is a very low seller in the US, its one of the best sellers in Europe- and its not the only single slot device out there- the Edelrid Jewel is another one (which i actually really like for cragging, after playing with one for a weekend after the OR show!)- neither sell well in the US, but in Europe they're fairly common because folks rarely rappel over there. Dude, how much time have you spent in Europe? I have never seen either of those devices being used by anyone... none, really. just going off Edelrid and BD's sales of the devices over there- both of which are fairly strong. the jewel is SS, and it is nice- i have to say it might be my new favorite crag belay device! edited because i apparently cannot figure out how to use the quote function today. 
The ATC sport - dont know. maybe that is indeed common everywhere apart from the areas i am, but the edelrid jewel? Maybe you are confusing it with the zap-o-mat or edelrid told you bullshit (or i am blind) but that thing is not available anywhere. Neither at edelrids homepage, nor at the big shops. Google only finds it mentioned in this thread.
qwert
|
|
|
|
|
I_do
Aug 8, 2009, 2:59 AM
Post #58 of 104
(4575 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 2, 2008
Posts: 1232
|
a-e-jones wrote: I_do wrote: a-e-jones wrote: I_do wrote: Dude, how much time have you spent in Europe? I have never seen either of those devices being used by anyone... i've seen alot of people around france with the ATC sport :\ didn't want to fork out the extra 2-3eu for the guide or reverso 3 i guess And they say the dutch are cheap... In all fairness I haven't been climbing in France for a while, will make up by going to Bleau in october (I just love saying that I'm so stoked to finally go there) probably not a lot of atc sports there. i've been living in paris for over a year now, so when you come by drop a line and i'll give you some easy tips to find your way around all the footpaths that connect the fields
That's awesome, I don't think any of my mates have been there either. Will send you a pm closer to date!
Cheers
|
|
|
|
|
nb_boarder16
Aug 8, 2009, 9:19 PM
Post #59 of 104
(4517 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 28, 2006
Posts: 45
|
The faders sum. Our local gym uses em and while no belay device will be bad enough to prefer a hip belay, this one comes the closest. The response is terrible and the locking mechanism can be disabled if the device gets caught up in between you and the wall or your harness or whatever. Never take my eye off this one...
(This post was edited by nb_boarder16 on Aug 8, 2009, 9:25 PM)
|
|
|
|
|
billcoe_
Aug 9, 2009, 11:52 PM
Post #60 of 104
(4430 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 30, 2002
Posts: 4694
|
qwert wrote: the edelrid jewel? Maybe you are confusing it with the zap-o-mat or edelrid told you bullshit (or i am blind) but that thing is not available anywhere. Neither at edelrids homepage, nor at the big shops. Google only finds it mentioned in this thread. qwert
Try changing the spelling to Jul Qwert. No kidding:-) Single slot, stainless, looks as worthless as it sounds.
http://www.edelridna.com/...ts&product_id=67
|
|
|
|
|
I_do
Aug 10, 2009, 3:02 AM
Post #61 of 104
(4400 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 2, 2008
Posts: 1232
|
nb_boarder16 wrote: The faders sum. Our local gym uses em and while no belay device will be bad enough to prefer a hip belay, this one comes the closest. The response is terrible and the locking mechanism can be disabled if the device gets caught up in between you and the wall or your harness or whatever. Never take my eye off this one...
Reeaally? The sum was the first autolocking device I used which I liked so I got one now. Lowering ain't great but for feeding out slack it's the best and it handles a variety of rope sizes well. What do you use it for? I typically only use it for single pitch lead belaying.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
rtwilli4
Aug 11, 2009, 3:25 AM
Post #63 of 104
(4283 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 14, 2008
Posts: 1867
|
shoo wrote: I am constantly shocked at what some climbing manufacturers consider "good ideas." These are just baffling. 1. ATC-Sport - Black Diamond [image]http://www.rockclimbing.com/images/gear/products/4/17794-medium_620052_atc_sport.jpg[/image] There are two slots on almost all tube-type belay devices for a reason. And no, it's not so you can belay two people at once. 2. Bionic 8 - Mammut [image]http://s7ondemand1.scene7.com/is/image/MoosejawMB/10085392_zm_product.jpg[/image] You use a fig. 8 because it offers smooth rappels. They suck at pretty much everything else. So you go out and make a device that's an i-beam version, eliminating the smooth bar stock, and likely a lot of the smoothness of the rappel. And seriously, do you really need to be counting the ounces for a sport rappelling?!? Better yet, you are seriously sport rappelling!?! 3. Pyramid - Trango [image]http://ai.pricegrabber.com/pi/8/93/98/89398908_160.jpg[/image] This is a good idea like Coke-II and communism. Might sound cool on paper, but when you actually try it, it sucks. If you've ever tried to use one of these, I'm sorry. I'd rather hip belay. Anyone have any others?
The Pyramid never gave me any problems, but then again I'm not sure I've done much w/ it other than TR belay.
My take on the first two:
Companies don't come out w/ products like that for climbers. They come out w/ products like that for people who think they are climbers, or who are just getting into the sport. BD knows good and well that no self respecting climber is actually going to buy a belay device that you can't rap with, and Mammut is just trying to make a very boring and almost useless device look cool.
They market these devices as "lighter alternative with cutting edge technology" hoping that people who don't know any better will spend the extra cash, thinking that they are getting a better product.
Not to mention two very large demographics that these devices are pushed at... gym climbers (BD) and Sport Rappellers (Mammut).
|
|
|
|
|
milesenoell
Aug 11, 2009, 4:44 AM
Post #64 of 104
(4266 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 19, 2006
Posts: 1156
|
In reply to: I knew a guy that had a pyramid when I was fairly new. He didn't seem to have any problems. He loved how thick it was and that it apparently didn't get sharp edges as fast as other belay devices. He was also really pumped on the "cooling ridges". Now that i'm more experienced I still don't know if he knew wtf he was talking about. I've never had any complaints with a belay device being too hot but I suppose if you have wimpy hands the pyramid would cool down faster than other devices.
If you rap fast it's worse, and if you climb fast laps and rap fast (like when rope soloing on a short crag) the device can get hot enough to burn you, but it doesn't burn your hands, it burns your ass. I rope solo on a short crag and my ATC gets so hot that even through my shorts, hanging off a gear loop, it can be uncomfortable. Maybe I should try a Pyramid.
I've already had to retire one ATC when it wore the sides into blades, a Pyramid is sounding better and better.
(This post was edited by milesenoell on Aug 11, 2009, 4:51 AM)
|
|
|
|
|
cjon3s
Aug 11, 2009, 4:51 AM
Post #65 of 104
(4257 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 8, 2009
Posts: 150
|
How long did it take you to wear through your
ATC?
Btw, my guide and xp rarely get hot enough to burn me, even on full length rappels.
|
|
|
|
|
milesenoell
Aug 11, 2009, 4:53 AM
Post #66 of 104
(4257 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 19, 2006
Posts: 1156
|
vertical_planar wrote: shoo wrote:  Has anyone else noticed that this looks like the eye of thundera?
Thundercats Hooooooooe!
|
|
|
|
|
milesenoell
Aug 11, 2009, 4:59 AM
Post #67 of 104
(4255 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 19, 2006
Posts: 1156
|
cjon3s wrote: How long did it take you to wear through your ATC? Btw, my guide and xp rarely get hot enough to burn me, even on full length rappels.
about a year, maybe a year and a half of heavy climbing and the edges were scary sharp. (I was able to go climb for an hour or two 3-5 times a week, and rope soloing means that there aren't any breaks like when you climb with partners. Each session included at least a dozen raps.) It may have been exacerbated by having a fat rope and/or the fact that I was doing really fast single strand rappels.
edited to add: The ATC wasn't entirely "worn out", it had just worn sharp blade-like edges at one end of each of the slots. What I noticed about the wear was that the rope strand going to my brake hand rides over the edge and thus the metal stays rounded, but he strand going up to the anchor leaves the device at an angle that wears the metal sharp. I had typically been using the same (top) slot each time. That meant that the wear pattern was always the same for each slot even when the device was turned around. To fix the problem all I had to do was alternate slots for each rap. (climb, rap off top slot. climb, rap off bottom slot, etc.) The problem is only likely to show up on single strand raps. On regular, double strand raps the device is likely to get put on in different orientations just by chance, and thus never get too sharp. If you ever notice your ATC getting sharp, just put the sharp side toward your brake hand for a few raps.
(This post was edited by milesenoell on Aug 11, 2009, 6:10 AM)
|
|
|
|
|
milesenoell
Aug 11, 2009, 5:28 AM
Post #68 of 104
(4245 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 19, 2006
Posts: 1156
|
I suspect that the heat issues I've had are at least partially due to heat building up over multiple rappels faster than it is being dissipated between climbs.
edited to add: I was also climbing for speed much of the time. Since it was over a lunch break and limited time I wanted to get as pumped as I could in the limited amount of time. My climbing was not at all typical, and thus my issue with the heat is not likely to be a concern for very many people.
(This post was edited by milesenoell on Aug 11, 2009, 5:31 AM)
|
|
|
|
|
quiteatingmysteak
Aug 11, 2009, 5:39 AM
Post #69 of 104
(4241 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 15, 2004
Posts: 804
|
What are you guys talking about?? I've used most of these and they are fine.
This may sound crazy, but maybe, just maybe, the people using a single slot belay device know that its a single slot. Its a new idea, its fun, kinda hokey but whatever, it works and some people probably swear by it.
The VC pro caught up on your 10.5 rope?
1. Wash that sucker! (the rope, not your wife ><)
2. What, are you speed lowering?
Gri Gri's are rad, man. Anyone thats had stubborn friends get into climbing whose owned one will say so!
Any belay device is an improvement on a hip belay, and they all work. Lots of gear out there is retarded, but hey, as long as you're making new gear thats different, and someone will buy it, how bad can it be?
p.s. the smart is VERY rad and VERY eazy to use. Think of it as a 30 dollar gri gri. Used it to clean a route recently on rappel, backed it up but otherwise treated it like a gri gri, rap, brush sand, rap, brush sand, SEND!
p.s. it was 10a and I flubbed it.
|
|
|
|
|
milesenoell
Aug 11, 2009, 6:15 AM
Post #70 of 104
(4232 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 19, 2006
Posts: 1156
|
quiteatingmysteak wrote: p.s. the smart is VERY rad and VERY eazy to use. Think of it as a 30 dollar gri gri. Used it to clean a route recently on rappel, backed it up but otherwise treated it like a gri gri, rap, brush sand, rap, brush sand, SEND! p.s. it was 10a and I flubbed it.
Just being a new route gets enough style points to cover the failed send.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
marc801
Aug 13, 2009, 12:49 AM
Post #73 of 104
(4095 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 1, 2005
Posts: 2806
|
quiteatingmysteak wrote: This may sound crazy, but maybe, just maybe, the people using a single slot belay device know that its a single slot. Its a new idea, its fun, kinda hokey but whatever, it works and some people probably swear by it.
|
|
|
|
|
quiteatingmysteak
Aug 13, 2009, 1:57 AM
Post #74 of 104
(4077 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 15, 2004
Posts: 804
|
marc801 wrote: quiteatingmysteak wrote: This may sound crazy, but maybe, just maybe, the people using a single slot belay device know that its a single slot. Its a new idea, its fun, kinda hokey but whatever, it works and some people probably swear by it. No, it isn't a new idea. About 40+ years old, actually. Before the Sticht Plate, some climbers used a single link of 3/8" chain.
THANKS
I WILL MAKE SURE TO AMEND MY FUTURE STATEMENTS TO REFLECT THE TWO GUYZ THAT USED CHAINLINKZ
MUCH CARE/LOVE
GREGARIUS
|
|
|
|
|
marc801
Aug 13, 2009, 4:03 AM
Post #75 of 104
(4010 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 1, 2005
Posts: 2806
|
quiteatingmysteak wrote: marc801 wrote: quiteatingmysteak wrote: This may sound crazy, but maybe, just maybe, the people using a single slot belay device know that its a single slot. Its a new idea, its fun, kinda hokey but whatever, it works and some people probably swear by it. No, it isn't a new idea. About 40+ years old, actually. Before the Sticht Plate, some climbers used a single link of 3/8" chain. THANKS I WILL MAKE SURE TO AMEND MY FUTURE STATEMENTS TO REFLECT THE TWO GUYZ THAT USED CHAINLINKZ MUCH CARE/LOVE GREGARIUS
If you're going to comment on climbing history, at least get it right.
|
|
|
|
|
|
